Just get a Toyota Corolla with decent winter tires.
https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g
Printable View
Just get a Toyota Corolla with decent winter tires.
https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g
Well, yes .
yeah but he is british and they can't drive
it hardly ever snows in my town
I can't afford snow tires so I don't need snow tires
pick one of the above ^^
All that shows is good winter tires are important, which anyone who drives in snow already knows...
It'd be interesting to repeat the test with them both using the same tires to see how much 4WD really buys you.
actualy it quantitatively shows by how much 2wd and winter tires trump 4x4 with summer tires
but how many threads are there where buddy will chime in that he does fine without snowtires ?
I drove a lot of highway up here in a 4 door Toyota 4-runer for 3-4 years and even with good studded snows the high cg/ short WB woudl scare the hell outa me probably 6 times a season whereas a VW golf with 4 studded Haks was way less scary
I read on the internet 4x4s are invincible!
"In the mountains"Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
Good luck elk hunting in a Corolla! ;)
Here's the best way to insure you have traction...
Attachment 257171
Well duh... Everyone knows "Tires">"Tyres"......
last week even with studded snows the brewery guy was stuck shleping 3 kegs of beer up to the ski hill in his mini-van so buddy transferred all 3 kegs to the front seat and made it
I've driven more than a couple fwd cars up hills/driveways in reverse to get the engine weight over the front tires/tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
What about tires with macho tread but all-season rubber? Doing the snows + steel wheels vs. new M+S now. M+S were fine on my AWD wagon last year but it's time to replace them.
Specifically thinking about Yokohama Geolandars right now, if anyone has opinions on those.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...cleSearch=true
4WD with all-season tyres (tires?) = 4 wheels spinning. Don't even consider stopping or turning which is generally important.
Winter rubber compound makes a huge difference, even on roads that are just wet when it's below 40*F. It's the price of doing business in places where it snows with some regularity.
From the sleeping in parking lots thread
Where’s pano-dude?
Quote:
Originally Posted by acinpdx
Quote:
Originally Posted by pano-dude
yeah I had to back around the last switchback to get skiing up the hill cuz the Haks were pretty worn so I got new studded Hak 7's the next seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Skidog
So remember that good snow tires are life saving devices
just like that other life saving rubber device
the condom
Nokian rules! [in] World Cup freebies!
Attachment 257198
I’ve got geolanders on the sienna awd minivan.
We run snows on steel wheels or we’d never get home.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Those are sweet. Got Hakka 8 on wife’s MDX and it’s a tank. My subie with Hakka 7 is skipowQuote:
Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel
4wheel drive doesn't equal 4 wheel stop.
I think the same issues for SUVs that my 73' Corolla faced up in Maine back in the day, offroad that is.....pretty sketchy clearance combined with little room in the wheelwells for an aggressive tire.
I watched a brodozer yesterday on some 30-some inch tires spinning in 4 on a slight incline of glossy packed snow. It was a little sad to see the tricked out “off-road” setup utterly useless on an otherwise developed road.
And that folks is why I-70 is a complete shit show. Only those summer tires are often on 2wd cars. I’d be happy if everyone out here had at least decent all weathers.
No shit. That’s what the fuckin studded snow tires are for.....Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked_sick
I would refute that. Growing up in New England, it's extremely common for people to have driven with dedicated winter tires. I think it's totally insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
Among the 84 percent of snowbelt drivers who will prepare their car for winter weather, only a quarter (25 percent) plan to equip or already have equipped their vehicle with winter tires this season.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300001625.html
Okay, guess that attitude is more prevalent than I ever imagined. I thought anyone who drives a fair amount in the snow would know tires beat 4WD any day of the week, and also that 4WD doesn't help at all with deceleration, which is the cause of most accidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromond
Honestly thought this thread was gonna be about the high COG of SUVs, which is a well-known issue. Subarus have their downsides, but it's nice to have a low COG and as much clearance as your average SUV.
Considering most Americans don't have $500 in savings coming up with $500 or so to purchase snow tires is a stretch for many. No one expects they will be the ones who can't stop, get stuck, or get in a car wreck so the decision matrix makes it easy to skip this expense. Of course with a $500 auto insurance deductible, one crash can wipe out your assumed savings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromond
That's a stupid fucking quote. Every car, 2wd or 4wd has brakes on all four wheels and has "4 wheel stop."Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked_sick
Your point is a good one. Skip the fancy 4WD SUV (or pickup) and put snow tires on an old FWD Corolla. A problem is the average American can finance a nicer car but can't necessarily finance snow tires except via cc with a super high interest rate. Personally, I think the US in general would be much better if people were less willing take on debt and more willing to save for a rainy day. But that's a bigger conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."
While I agree that an AWD wagon with four snows on it is a lot better than an SUV or (even worse) a pickup on a mostly plowed road, 4WD does affect stopping, at least in the one A vs B test I've seen:Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXdXRbc2Rc
and from last winter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMnT1gCYjP8
I think that the physical hassle of needing to swap and store the tires can’t be discounted. Many people don’t have the space and just don’t want to take on another chore. It doesn’t help that the highway patrol here often lists passes as chains/4wd required and pay no attention to winter tires. That corolla with blizzaks is going to be fine while the 4wd pickup with bald tires is not.
Interesting. But, as he said in the video, it has to do with the brake bias of the front vs rear wheels -- the brake bias is changed by the (locking) transfer case in a vehicle that has selectable 2WD vs 4-hi vs 4-lo. Which I didn't know, so thanks for sharing. But still, most modern SUVs no longer have locking transfer cases -- either they're regular AWD or they have that stupid selector knob for the "mode" (rut, sand, snow, gravel, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum
But still, if we want to play semantics, it's not the fact that you have power to all four wheels, it's brake bias. And frankly, I don't know the general front vs rear brake bias of a FWD car vs 4WD/AWD SUV. Maybe someone else does?
This works with 4wd vehicles with locking transfer cases, most of your SUVs running around are AWD without a locking transfer case though. I can make all kinds of arguments about how a 4WD manual with a good driver can out perform an equivalent 2wd in stopping and emergency evasive maneuvers but most 4WDs are handicap by incompetent drivers so it's a pointless argument. Most people are driving automatics and just slam on the brakes and let the ABS computer decide how to handle the situation in which case there probably isn't a difference between an equivalent AWD and 2WD when it comes to avoiding something in front of you. Starting, turning, maintaining your trajectory (i.e. not randomly spinning out), AWD/4WD will win every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum
Solid post all around. What I was trying to say, but likely stated better.Quote:
Originally Posted by GPP33
I use my hill decent control button in my Audi q5. That plus manual shift mode makes stopping on ice super easy. With dedicated snows this SUV is a beast on snow and ice.
AWD with all season tires will often get you up a slick hill better than FWD with snows. I suspect some folks experience this and think, "I didn't get stuck! I don't need snow tires." Somehow fear of getting stuck is more prominent than fear of not stopping.
...and I'd be really interested to see a similar test repeated with one of those, or perhaps more than one—I'd be very curious to see if the various AWD mechanisms introduced some level of linkage between front and rear that increased the effective braking force applied by the rear wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by GPP33
...there's a reason they have different classes for 2WD vs A/4WD in rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by GPP33
With that said,
.Quote:
Originally Posted by GPP33
FTFY.
Brake bias used to be done with a proportioning valve. The way they work is that equal pressure is sent to front and rear up to a certain point determined by the valve. After that, rear pressure is lower because under hard braking you transfer weight forward and the fronts do more work. More modern cars just let the abs figure out out. Either way, with low traction and braking forces the brakes will be well below the range where the biasing occurs. However, the actual brake torques at the wheels are not 50:50 because the rotors and caliper piston area are bigger up front. Generally, it's about a 70:30 ratio. For the best performance, you want the brake forces to match the weight distribution. With low traction, low braking forces and very little weight transfer, that's going to wind up being pretty forward biased. The reason for that is because you don't ever want the rear brakes to lockup first, and optimum brake distribution is most important when braking hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
On a truck with rear drums and maybe no or not great abs, being in 4wd is definitely going to make a difference as shown in the videos. I don't imagine there is much difference in how abs and brake biasing works between more recent cars and trucks, but an SUV probably has closer to 50:50 weight distribution than a fwd car, so the brakes just never provide enough force at lower speeds.
I'd like to see a followup using a subaru or something with and without the awd engaged (automatics generally have a fuse holder to disable the transfer clutches), I'm not sure you would get much of a difference. Plus those clutches tend to be more open under braking.
The snow level where i go skiing means i drive 40 miles on wet pavement, and the last 10 miles (at most) on snow. no reason to get dedicated snowtires. Never have an issue starting up a hill as long as im gentle, and never have an issue stopping unless i have the wheels cranked to one side or come in too hot. Pretty easy to just pay attention and brake in plenty of time so you dont have to rely on excellent grip (especially because my snow driving is a very limited part of the ski trip). If the roads are ice (refrozen hardpack or refrozen rain) then you pretty much need studs, otherwise you just gotta really pay attention to your momentum and be smooth.
Attentive driving goes a REALLY long ways though. That said, i rode my last tires down so low that on the final pow day of last year that i got a flat that my mechanic refused to try and fix haha. Have a new pair of Cooper ATWs on there now so that should be a nice improvement.
exactly so you have bought the best traction you can possibly haveQuote:
Originally Posted by simple
instead trying to rationalize why you don't need to spend money on 4 real snow tires
this whole rationalization thing is very simliar to people who say " I do fine on telemarks skis "
when they would do finer if they bought a whole binding
That pulling a fuse trick on Subarus is long gone. Like 15 years or more gone....