Name that ski

Yep, another one.

I'm replacing my Backcountry setup, mainly because I can, but also because I'm realizing I should size-up. Current setup are Praxis BC's, 180. Rider is 6'2, 185# and getting fatter. My everything else skis are Goats. My deepest skis are Protests

Ideally, looking at similar dims, like a skinny goat in 186 ~8 lbs. But, since I can't currently buy such a beast... It'd be nice to retain some of the edgehold, precision and maneuverability of the bc's in no-fall zone type stuff. Something you'd feel comfortable coulair-hunting or billygoating to get to that last stash in-bounds. And, importantly, not hate yourself for hauling them on 5k ft touring days. Bindings may be Shifts, or first-gen radicals, haven't decided.

Under consideration:

Wren 108 (duh, but little heavy?)
Replacement longer BC's w Enduro core (Ideal, but not shelling out peak-season $$$)
Moment whatchamacallit (Seriously, they all seem like the same ski...)
4frnt Raven (Heard great things, but not sure if the reverse camber is the best choice for negotiating steep boilerplate which is a must)
Lithic?? (It'd be nice to rock something locally sourced. Free-ranged, Organic. Ya know?)
Or some boring bliza-vokl-ordica thing. Yawn.

Posted in your other thread on this topic, but I have 184cm minty ON3P Steeple 102s if interested.

Thinking about turning these “beasts” you seek, loose. 2018 Steeple108 184. These are more skinny Billy than light floppy tour’rs. 2240g each. A dream ski here in PNW for appropriate days. Bases & edges flawless Attachment 254745LMK

G3 sendr- great ski

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CascadeLuke

Thinking about turning these “beasts” you seek, loose. 2018 Steeple108 184. These are more skinny Billy than light floppy tour’rs. 2240g each. A dream ski here in PNW for appropriate days Attachment 254745LMK

---

Interesting. What are the mounts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huskydoc

Interesting. What are the mounts?

---

Tecton 322 bsl
Pivot 315
*front 2 toe drillings were reused on Pivot

190 Moment Wildcat Tour 108 if you like progressive mount
Corvus Freebird, if you like traditional mount
0G 108, if you like traditional mount and hard snow bias
Volkl BMT 108, if you like full rev camber

with Tectons

As far as bliza-vokl-ordica's go, the Zero G 108's are excellent on the steep boilerplate, but less fun than your BC's in powder. More tool than toy. Great choice if you also have a fatter pow touring ski or if you ski a lot of steep, stable pow, where float matter less than in the 28 degree trees I ski all winter.

I know a couple folks who love Volkl BMT 109's as all-rounders, but they are reverse camber like the Raven's.

What about Black Crows Corvus Freebird? I'd love to try a pair some time.

I had some carbon-less Praxis BC's a long while back that were stiffer than the newer versions. Never should have sold. A little too loose in the tails, I thought, but one of the best touring skis I've used

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

As far as bliza-vokl-ordica's go, the Zero G 108's are excellent on the steep...

What about Black Crows Corvus Freebird? I'd love to try a pair some time.

I had some carbon-less Praxis BC's a long while back that were stiffer than the newer versions. Never should have sold. A little too loose in the tails, I thought, but one of the best touring skis I've used

---

1) Yeah I was fondling a pair of these in the shop last week. Def up my alley, if I got a good mid-season deal it'd def be a consideration.

2) Re: Corvus. All the numbers look great. Do they come with a can of spray paint for the top sheet? I mean, I'm a secure dude but not sure I need to scream it. Anima or Navis on the other hand...

3) does anyone demo moment up here? The wildcat tour does seem to check the boxes...

I spent several years on the Billy Goat, including touring. Went lighter (for touring) with Black Crows Anima Freebirds - pretty similar shape (I used the exact same skins) and complimentary to some degree. Know 2 other maggots who did the same, which is part of the reason I tried them in the first place.

But yeah, I'd be interested in the Wildcat Tour for sure as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huskydoc

1) Yeah I was fondling a pair of these in the shop last week. Def up my alley, if I got a good mid-season deal it'd def be a consideration.

2) Re: Corvus. All the numbers look great. Do they come with a can of spray paint for the top sheet? I mean, I'm a secure dude but not sure I need to scream it. Anima or Navis on the other hand...

3) does anyone demo moment up here? The wildcat tour does seem to check the boxes...

---

So I ski the 185 0G 108, my wife skis the 175 BC Corvus FB, and I was just checking out the Wildcat tour at evo the other day.

Frankly, the WC tour has tons of tail rocker with a big upturned tail. I bet it would get annoying on boilerplate. The 185 0G 108 measures 182.8 with pretty minimal tip rocker and virtually no tail rocker. I'd guess they're shorter with less rocker than you'd prefer. They feel a little short and "locked in" in pow for me at 5'11", 165#. The Corvus is a nice blend of the two (especially if you leave them voile strapped together for 6 months to press some of the camber out, haha). So yeah, I'd guess the 188 Corvus Freebird would be the top pick as an all rounder. Grab a can of spray paint if you can't rock the pink.

The biggest downside on paper for me with the Corvus is the 21 m radius, but my wife assures me it skis much longer than that -- she was genuinely surprised when I told her that her 171 Cochise (Dakota) has a 27 m radius while the 175 Corvus only has a 21 m radius.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by auvgeek

The 185 0G ... feel a little short and "locked in" in pow for me at 5'11", 165#. T

---

Agreed. I had 185's which I found to be ho hum in powder but quite excellent on steep, funky snow. I replaced them with 178's which are slightly worse in powder, but superior ski mountaineering tools, and a better match for my Scarpa F1's.

G3 sendr- great ski

That one

185 Black Diamond Route 105s.

Rad ski, handles inbounds chip well, plenty of tip rocker for soft snow, midfoot and tail doesn’t give out on firm snow and can cut into ice.
Sizing wise, the 185 is quite a bit taller than anything mentioned here. Closer to a moment 190 than 184, maybe 2-3cm longer than a 185 ZeroG 108.

Doesn’t have the same precision on firm snow as the 0g 108, but much much better in soft snow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by auvgeek

(especially if you leave them voile strapped together for 6 months to press some of the camber out, haha)

---

Did that actually work? I want the answer to be yes.

no love for the Atomic Backland?

Sent from my SM-G930F using TGR Forums mobile app

I went from the 180 BC to the 190 BC for similar reasons and love it. Would you consider a +10mm 180BC? Moarrrr Float, same maneuverability.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I've been touring on the Fischer Ranger 108 in the 188 length and have been happy with them across the board and I feel like they would tick most of your boxes if not all. They are not the lightest but it looks like you are considering wrens...and I believe the 188 comes in at about the same weight if not maybe a little lighter. PM me if you have any questions or what to discuss mount point etc as that seems to be the common gripe with the 108.

Another idea since you seem to like the Praxis coolaid, me too, tasty! 189 skinny RX in enduro carbon layup. Pure conjecture since I haven’t skied it but man the shape looks killer.

I'm considering the Salomon QST106 to fill this roll (admittedly Proform influences this decision) to partner up with a Billygoat/Shift and Wren/Alpine quiver. The Salomon isn't the lightest but will still drop about 400g/ski. It should make for a nice soft snow dedicated touring setup (coming from the Wren I'm not sure I'll like the QST at the resort). Ideally I would put Tectons on there to drop another ~180g (do you guys think this difference is enough to merit the shift from Shifts?). That said anybody want to trade my new Shifts for your Tectons?

A skinny Billy would be nice too but I think the QST106 should ski similarly and lighter in soft, hoping I get along with the smaller radius.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andyski

Did that actually work? I want the answer to be yes.

---

So we haven't tried it intentionally yet, but my wife's 175 Corvus FB has much less camber than the 175 Corvus we just bought her (we haven't found a new Corvus FB locally to compare), and the 185 0G 108 has substantially less camber than I recall them having -- I was concerned about them having too much camber when I got them, and they don't look like that to me anymore.

So I think the answer is a tentative yes, if you keep them voile strapped together tightly for like a year. We intend to try it on her new Corvus' because they have more camber than she'd like. Now, this may also shorten the lifespan on the ski...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rossymcg

no love for the Atomic Backland?

Sent from my SM-G930F using TGR Forums mobile app

---

I find atomics to be too floppy for my taste. The ti models being the exception but, you know, gravity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkiLyft

I went from the 180 BC to the 190 BC for similar reasons and love it. Would you consider a +10mm 180BC? Moarrrr Float, same maneuverability.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

---

If someone has 190 BC's they want to offload my quest would be over, no doubt. New? I don't have any small children to pawn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huskydoc

If someone has 190 BC's they want to offload my quest would be over, no doubt. New? I don't have any small children to pawn

---

I might have someone who wants to trade his 190 BC (Unsure of flex/core) for your 180. His were mounted 1x on the line for g3 ions.

What was the mount on yours?

Edit: 2016 - standard flex with cherry topsheets and ‘Merica bases. Bases not minty but no core and nothing that ptex can’t fix.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkiLyft

I might have someone who wants to trade his 190 BC (Unsure of flex/core) for your 180. His were mounted 1x on the line for g3 ions.

What was the mount on yours?

Edit: 2016 - standard flex with cherry topsheets and ‘Merica bases. Bases not minty but no core and nothing that ptex can’t fix.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

---

PM Sent. Suffice to say, it's a cluster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XavierD

185 Black Diamond Route 105s.

Rad ski, handles inbounds chip well, plenty of tip rocker for soft snow, midfoot and tail doesn’t give out on firm snow and can cut into ice.
Sizing wise, the 185 is quite a bit taller than anything mentioned here. Closer to a moment 190 than 184, maybe 2-3cm longer than a 185 ZeroG 108.

Doesn’t have the same precision on firm snow as the 0g 108, but much much better in soft snow.

---

Do they ski longer too, I assume? I80cm is my sweet spot for a touring ski but stuck between sizes on this one. I dislike long skis for touring and 185 is already on the long side for what I want but 175 seems real short. I do like the 177 K2 annex I have been skiing though and it doesn't seem too short, but K2 measures long.

Sorry for the hijack, Huskydoc, but there's not much info out there on the Route series.

Anyone else with more beta re the Black crows Corvus FB or, particularly, the Navis FB?? Particularly vis a vis a Wren 98? Close to pulling the trigger

-BD Route: Nice, but a little heavy based on today's poking and prodding . Helio- tempting, but a little overpriced/underwhelming flex.

G3 RoamR: Very intriguing. Anyone with time on them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huskydoc

Anyone else with more beta re the Black crows Corvus FB or, particularly, the Navis FB?? Particularly vis a vis a Wren 98? Close to pulling the trigger

-BD Route: Nice, but a little heavy based on today's poking and prodding . Helio- tempting, but a little overpriced/underwhelming flex.

G3 RoamR: Very intriguing. Anyone with time on them?

---

Haven't skied any of those, but the Corvus, Wren, and RoamR are quite a bit heavier than the Route (on paper at least).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huskydoc

Anyone else with more beta re the Black crows Corvus FB or, particularly, the Navis FB?? Particularly vis a vis a Wren 98? Close to pulling the trigger

-BD Route: Nice, but a little heavy based on today's poking and prodding . Helio- tempting, but a little overpriced/underwhelming flex.

G3 RoamR: Very intriguing. Anyone with time on them?

---

Haven't skied the Wren's but I've spent time on the Corvus and Navis FB. Both are stout enough for resort skiing and skiing hard; reviews here and across the web seem to agree. They're not the lightest for touring (the 2019 regular Corvus is only 100-200g heavier than the 2019 Freebird's), but light enough. Black Crows has trimmed a few hundred grams from the Ova Freebird and Camox Freebird; I would assume the Orb, Navis and Corvus will move that direction soon too.

I ski the ZeroG 108 and found the Corvus FB a little more damp, a little more skiable and much better in powder.

I've toured on both the Wren 98 and the Navis Freebirds. The latter is WAY WAY lighter. Obviously the Wrens are more damp. The Navis actually skied inbounds much better than I expected, however, but nothing like the Wrens.

Route 105 is lighter than a Corvus Freebird of comparative size.

Looks like the Route 105 in a 175 comes in pretty close to BD specs for weight.

Attachment 255796

To close the loop, these bad boys came home with me yesterday Attachment 256184

Weight per ski in 185 is approx 1760g.
BD Route in the same length came in +100g heavier
Praxis BC 180 with unknown layup came in +150g(ish)
Corvus in a 188 came in +250g, surprised given how much more ski it is.
Corvus and Navis flex close to identical, BD Route is softer throughout, seem to have less camber.

I'd psyched myself up to rock the pink Corvus, but as the crew at Proski North bend pointed out, icy sidehill skinning and fat-ness do not get along.

Oh, and PNW mags: if you're able, pay Martin and the Proski Northbend guys a visit. Such a good shop and will help you make not dumb choices.

Never heard of them.

heh

excellent choice!

I went with the same skis last fall, before changing my mind (due to having other skis that were too similar) and before selling both pairs without skiing on them to try some light weight carbon skis (sold all four pairs of those again too, Extrem opinion carbon2 98/108 and BMT 94/109).

Knowing what i know now I might have held on to the Navis skis a bit longer if i had bought them now - they look killer, have a decent amount of camber and the geo is sorted, so should be awesome for a lot of skiing. I was really tempted to try Corvus Freebirds, but they were to wide for my uses and the price charged by BC in Scandiland by the importer is pretty preposterous imo.

Their build quality is not ON3P bomber, but then again the weight is nowhere close either.

So in case you wonder how they look with Vipec Blacks ;)
Attachment 256224

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huskydoc

To close the loop, these bad boys came home with me yesterday

Weight per ski in 185 is approx 1760g.
BD Route in the same length came in +100g heavier
Praxis BC 180 with unknown layup came in +150g(ish)
Corvus in a 188 came in +250g, surprised given how much more ski it is.
Corvus and Navis flex close to identical, BD Route is softer throughout, seem to have less camber.

I'd psyched myself up to rock the pink Corvus, but as the crew at Proski North bend pointed out, icy sidehill skinning and fat-ness do not get along.

Oh, and PNW mags: if you're able, pay Martin and the Proski Northbend guys a visit. Such a good shop and will help you make not dumb choices.

---

Sweet, enjoy those sticks Huskydoc!

Just one note on the Navis - I highly recommend a healthy detuning of the tails so they release a bit easier.