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Are these just rebranded Peips?
I was gonna get my wife a DSP Sport as that is what I have and I like it. I notice BD is offering both brands. I am generally hesitant about first year beacons but if it just a different plastic box on the outside I could be convinced.
https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...safety-beacons
Difficult to tell from this, maybe give them a call. I share your suspicion of 1st year roll outs. On further exam, the BDs look like a differently branded version of the Pieps. If you like the Sport, it is still available. All the new Bells & Whistles on the Guide and Recon seem like they are a bit over the top.
Not a ton of info here, but it sounds like the guide is more of a rebrand while the recon is a bit of something different maybe?
http://blacksheepadventuresports.com...2018-ski-gear/
BD branded beacons are made by Pieps, which is owned by BD. BD bought Pieps GmbH in 2012. AFAICT, it was a stock purchase. Pieps GmbH continues to exist as a distinct entity. BD is the sole shareholder.
The chips in all current Pieps and BD beacons are likely the same, with some features not used in the lower priced (e.g., DSP Sport) models. (Compare Garmin, which uses the same chip in a various GPSr units.) It's possible that the switches and circuitry are a bit different.
I was told at OR/SIA that they're just rebranded Pieps.
The one thing in the Guide's favor is a 60M range vs 50 for the Sport. Agreed on not needing or wanting the bells and whistles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not bunion
black diamond or rather Clarus corp owns black diamond and Pieps.
so yes it’s a rebranded pieps
This what I was told as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
Can confirm: Same guts, different housing.
Although I think the BDs will have easier firmware updates, bluetooth or something.
The Pieps BT beacons (Powder, Pro, Micro)have bluetooth and upgrades via the app. Sport doesn't. Upgrades without going to a service center or shipping it or whatever would be nice.
I have had to send my DSP sport back twice to so I don't think they are the best durability. Their customer service kind of sucks. It is a nice beacon when it works though. First time the plastic piece holding the lanyard ripped off. Now the beacon will sometimes not turn on and blink rapidly on the top (faster than if it was transmitting).
This happened to mine too. I was doing a practice search and let it dangle from the lanyard while I got my shovel ready and it popped right off. BD was quick to warranty replace mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by toastybroski
I take back what I said about their customer service, they rock but i'm sure are pretty busy. Since I was on my second pieps DSP sport they sent me a new BD Guide beacon and overnighted it so I would have it for thanksgiving. They are great.
I got issued a BD Guide BT last night. Haven't played with it too much yet. Box says assembled in Bosnia. It's a little clunkier then my old Pieps unit. Vbrates and beeps when you fire it up. I'll play with it this week and report back.
My number one question is does the cord attachment seem beefier than on the Pieps?Quote:
Originally Posted by sfotex
Nope......Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Played around with 3 BD Guide BT's tonite....and.....they suck.
We were picking up signal at around 40 feet with the antennas aligned and less then that in worst case orientation. At 40 feet I could take my horizontal transmitting beacon that was just detected, turn it vertical and the search beacon lost it/it went out of range.
Checked the firmware (v1.0) and it's up to date.
I'm calling BD tomorrow..... I hope I'm missing something here (repro'd it with 2 other people with the same beacons..)
Feet or meters?Quote:
Originally Posted by sfotex
Feet. I tested this morning with my mammut and BD beacon and the BD beacon worked as expected. I'll get the other BD beacons this weekend and see if I can figure out what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
That's kind of scary...
not good
Any update on this? I got a guide last week during an RMA and haven't done extensive testing but seems pretty similar to the PIEPS that I returned. I have just done regular checks and not tested the distance. Honestly, I thought everything would pretty much be exactly the same as the PIEPS PRO so I didn't even bother testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by sfotex
Did a beacon check last week with my DSP Pro and had similar results and some other strange behavior as well. I thought it had bitten the dust. Then I turned off my phone and the beacon behaved normally, detecting my partners beacon up to 60 meters. New phone since last season. I've seen interference like that before.Quote:
Originally Posted by sfotex
We're going to get together this weekend and play with the units we were having trouble with.
I'm thinking it was the headlamps.... which I should know better. I was focused on my gps unit and phone f'n them up.
I got a tip from a friend to turn on the audio if you have these issues and you can hear the interference.
Just got a text from my friend who did some testing, and was getting under a 30m range in worst case orientation.
My headlamp (COAST) will make the AM radio sing when I get close. I have not tried it on my beacon, but will be doing so now. Thanks DenQuote:
Originally Posted by sfotex
Beaconreviews put up their review and they got five stars and were described as pretty much the same as the old DSP pro. This does make me question how many electronics I have on though and the affect they have on my beacon. I almost always have a gps watch on and my phone in airplane mode in my backpack.
It was also nice to easily be able to change mine to auto-revert using my phone.
From Beacon Review:Quote:
Originally Posted by toastybroski
Review Pending
Although these transceivers were released worldwide in November 2018, they will be in limited supply until March 2019. A full rollout will take place in the Fall of 2019.
I will write a review of these transceivers later, but I expect the Pro/Guide transceivers will be even better than the Pieps DSP Pro. The five-star rating is based on my preliminary testing of the Pro/Guide transceivers.
WARNING:
I did a quick and dirty test. Pieps DSP sending unit, Pieps DSP Pro receiver, and Coast headlamp from Costco.
Range reduced from about 55M down to 15M with my headlight on and within about 20cm. During failure mode I tried moving my headlamp about 60cm away and it did not resolve the range problem, but if I started my search with the headlamp about 30cm away everything worked O.K. The worst thing is that my results were inconsistent. This was a quick and dirty test and will need a lot more time to resolve the inconsistencies.
I had a similar problem with a Garmin Rino radio a couple years back and learned that distance between the beacon and radio solved the problem ALMOST all the time. I will never do a search without turning my radio off. The time to turn it off is worth any wondering if my search is working properly. After today I will not do a search with a headlamp on. Maybe after much more testing I could grow comfortable with a proper distance protocol, but the fact that I could not make the problem go away by moving the headlamp to arms length (while in failure mode) means that I will turn off all electronics when in search mode.
I did not test for any interference in send mode (headlamp close to sending beacon), but with my radio it did not change the results if it was close to the sending beacon (< 10cm.)
When a friend of sfotex and I was testing the BD Beacon, he also placed his cell phone on the sending beacon, and he did not observe any interference or change in signal.
When he had his cell phone at arm's length and closer to the receiving beacon, he observed a dramatic change in the distance reading. He said the BD Beacon manual recommends keeping electronics 5m away from the receiving beacon.
Just yesterday, 12/15, I put my BD Beacon on search, and had him start skinning to me. I finally picked up a signal, and the distance reading was 45m, but there was no way in hell he was 45m (148ft) away; he was much closer, about 40-50ft, though we did not actually measure.
He took his beacon out, and played with the orientation. When the sending beacon was vertical, I had a reading of 44m; when it was flat, I had him at 32m.
I have not had the chance to compare a receiving BD Beacon to a receiving DSP Pro.
I am not comfortable with what I've been seeing, which is why I want to compare to a DSP Pro as well; to see if this happens with other beacons.
I just picked one up, but this has me somewhat concerned.
Orientation will always be a critical factor with every beacon.
I have never bought into the idea that the units of distance are meters, in my mind I consider them to be units of distance and when learning about a new beacon I do what you were doing and try and establish what that unit of distance equals.
So much of competent beacon use in search mode is about being familiar with your beacon to the point of having a high degree on confidence that you understand the reading it provides.
I wonder if the bluetooth chip is having an effect even when turned off.
From beaconreviews.com
"The reception range of the new transceivers is purportedly improved when the transmitting and receiving antennas are not aligned. The Pieps transceivers have always had exceptional reception range when in perpendicular alignment, so it will be interesting to see how that could be even better."
So they changed something.....
Good post. Beacons don't do straight lines. Backyard practice (in a addition to, not in place of, practice in more "realistic" settings) can help us react more intuitively to the interesting numbers that pop up during searches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not bunion
I'm going to play with my beacon (DSP Pro) around a few different electronic devices in different modes after I finish the shitload of work I need to do the next two days. Will report back. Maybe here or maybe in a new thread if the results are particularly interesting.
there are a number of pieces of work on interference already out there, including a paper that details the effect of cellphones on perceived range (last link, >40cm away was the recommendation)
http://arc.lib.montana.edu/snow-scie...aper_P4.13.pdf
https://beaconreviews.com/interference.php
https://utahavalanchecenter.org/blog/25236
https://www.mtavalanche.com/sites/de...ansceivers.pdf
https://www.mtavalanche.com/sites/de...NOT_Busted.pdf
Yeah, I'm not pretending to be breaking any new ground or extending the field of research. But the interference I experienced a week or so ago seemed to be happening at over that 40cm threshold, and did more than reduce range. It rendered my beacon close to useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
I agree with black diamonds, it is not about reading the latest research, it is about knowing what YOUR beacon can do and having faith in it during a search. For me that has come down to learning to turn off all electronic devices in order to trust my beacon. I keep my radio on while skiing as it has become an awesome tool in the back country, but I do practice turning it off for beacon search. Practice, Practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
Bunion/not bunion put it clearly:
"So much of competent beacon use in search mode is about being familiar with your beacon to the point of having a high degree of confidence that you understand the reading it provides."
You guys are totally on point. Looks like I will be getting another PIEPS. I need to be confident.
Got what I need do some testing. Will report back.
Attachment 260507
do you have a non-BD/pieps beacon to throw in? curious the differences in how beacons cope with interference.
dewam - those links stretch back years, they aren't the latest research. way back in the analog dark ages you could audibly hear interference from other sources; in the digital era the question is how the beacon deals with interference. there's other shit they mention - like signal attenuation from foil, metal, etc. which effects the signal of all beacons that might be useful (or not).