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I have a nearly new 10.5 x 60 sport rope that’s too heavy to bring anywhere.
What is the lightest single rope these days? For Teton rock routes I’d like something new and snazzy- a 60m dry rope.
Are alpine climbers on sub 9mm ropes?
What belay devices work the best for these thinner single roles? Anything newer than a std. ATC?
Well that's reassuring lol.Quote:
All three ropes did slip in a GriGri 2 when they were new and slick, but once their initial sheen wore off, they all caught and held without issue.
If you don't need to top-belay or rappel, maybe look at the Mammut Smart? I think it's rated for 8.6mm where the GriGri2 is rated for 8.9mm. The alpine version can also be used for rappelling and is available for use with ropes as thin as 7.5mm (there are two versions).Quote:
Originally Posted by skiing-in-jackson
ATC is all you will ever need. KISS
We use a Beal Stinger Pro (9.4mm) as our main cragging rope and love it. Typically climb with 1 Beal Ice Line (8.1, 1/2) on easy to moderate alpine routes and will double them up if we expect difficulties. GriGri 2 works great with the Stinger, Reverso for the iceline or when multipitching with the Stinger.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiing-in-jackson
Wow, 8.5mm 50g/m single rope. Technology marches on. I remember when 11mm 65g/m was the skinniest/lightest single rope.
FWIW, we have preferred the ATC XP over the classic ATC for skinnier ropes. IME the groove/teeth thingies provide a bit more braking power with skinnies. I dunno what else is out there. (My technical climbing days are behind me.)
Sure, for years. 25 years ago it wasn't uncommon to use a double rope for some alpine routes with low fall factors. Now it's possible to go sub-9mm with single rating, which is nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiing-in-jackson
Also from Rock and Ice.
I had a great set of twin 9s back in the early 90s. It was very convenient. Lots of Teton- pretty much everything on the Grand- require a rappel. Not having a big rope has great appeal. Many times I climbed easier terrain with just a single 9.
The above article refers to slickness and potential belay/rappel issues due to treated sheaths & smaller diameters.
I’m hoping to get out a lot in September and Oct. Hoping to bring a daughter up the Grand & other stuff. New ropes are in order. For the Upper Exum, I know the perfect rack. There’s really only a few moves that need pro. I know a guy who regularly climbed ( he’s old now) who insisted you only needed a half dozen #4 nuts to climb the Grand. Still he always brought two ropes, he never downclimbed the OS.
There are tons of new options for belay devices. If you want to only crag I'd look at the ATC pilot or a similar design (the smart was mentioned, but there are many similar) over a standard ATC.
as for ropes, it seems like the standard crag cord has drifted down to the 9.6 territory, and they’ve gotten less expensive at the same time.
Note that most super-skinny ropes get that way by using really thin sheaths, which means decreased durability. I would suggest ignoring the advertised diameter, and focus on a rope that maximizes sheath percentage (most manufacturers list it somewhere) while minimizing weight (g/m is pretty easy to compare across ropes).
Also, be aware that ATC-style devices list a larger range of usable diameters than is actually possible with a single rope. For example, Black Diamond says that the ATC-Guide can handle ropes from 7.7mm to 11mm, but if you actually look at the instructions (instead of the marketing) this is what it says:
Attachment 244961
You can use sub-9mm single ropes on an ATC-style device, but you have to find ways to mitigate the lack of friction (wear gloves, use two carabiners, etc).
And also don't get carried away by lightweight when it comes to ropes. 50g/m sounds a lot better than 53g/m, but on a 60m rope that only translates to 6 extra oz of weight. Just take a dump at the trailhead instead and use that extra $20 for beers when you get back down.
There are plenty of sub 9mm ropes out there these days. Used mostly for redpoints or as in your case as light weight alpine lines. The new Grigri + works well to 8.5mm, but I think it's rated for 8.9mm ropes. Nearly all sub 9mm ropes recommend they be used with an experienced belayer. Like most things in climb, experience is the key. If you are climbing with people who you know and trust, going sub 9mm is reasonable, but if you climb with relatively new climbers, I would keep the rope in the mid 9mm range. Plenty light, but has the extra margin of safety. Just take a few less beers in your climbing pack to balance the extra rope length.
edit to add: I just bought a new rope, a Blue Ice 9.6, nice middle of the road, do everything kind of rope. Not super sexy dental floss, but good all around rope. Light enough for alpine use, tough enough for cragging, dry treated for ice, et. al. I don't climb enough to justify a climbing rope quiver.
It's true that the difference between 10.5 and 9.4 isn't crazy on a 60m and that nice fat sheath can be nice on some TR's.
Alex and Tommy did their el cap speed runs with Tommy's pro model rope. It's an Edelrid 9.6mm with extra beefy sheath.
I was following up a chossy chimney in the Tetons when rockfall severed the rope about 15 feet above me (I ducked back into a hole). It was an 8.7 mm mammut serenity. I have no idea if a beefier rope would've been ok or not.
Just FYI, a 70m rope makes both rappel stations off of the Grand doable on a single (throw south((if memory serves, double check this)). Lots of stuff in the Winds is suited to a 70m these days as well.
edit: the OP probably knows way more about rappelling the Grand then me so disregard.
https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...a9f7694de.html
this article says 2 60s are customary. and rip, climber
Different climb. Guides wall is a five pitch route in Cascade Canyon. And yeah, 60 and a tag line is the way to go for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ml242
Well, that sounds absolutely fucking terrifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
The rockfall certainly was..... but the the rope, it was severed but held together with a few strands of inner core. My partner didn't realize it until it reached his belay device, and he made the decision to not tell me until I clipped into the anchors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I personally use either a Mammut Infinity 9.5 60m or the Black Diamond 70m 9.6 Dry. I find both beeing very similar in handeling but the better dry treatment on the BD rope is good as with the extra 10m. However I might just shell out for a Infinity Dry 70 or 80m as I love my 60 and I have several friends that love their mammut ropes too.
But get at least a 70m rope. Makes rapples easier, unless you lead with a tagline, and a lot of new sport routes got 30m pitches where a 60m might be on the edge of too short.
bought a used very lightly 70m mammut eternity (don't know if it's classic, protect, or dry) and I love it. However I was repelling on just one strand recently and found it uncomfortably slick with a guide atc. Maybe once it wears in a bit more.
What diameter rope, and ATC? I have never had an issue with skinny ropes and ATCs, but it can be a concern, not just in rapping, but belaying as well. Best to back up a rap with an autoblock, and know you have a competent belayer if any questions about your ATC.
Mammut Eternity is 9.8mm, no? AFAIK, there's only one version of Guide ATC, which is spec'd to for as skinny as 7.7mm ropes (although I wouldn't dare rap on a single 8mm line without adding significant friction in the system).Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
Auto block is always good advice. IME (I'm bigger than the average climber), for single strand raps with it's a good idea to add friction to the system, e.g., add a biner, curl rope around biner, etc.
the Eternity is 9.8, so not skinny. Guide ATC, oriented the right direction. Was slick and the hand was getting super hot. Backed up with prusik.
Using the Mammut Serenity 8.7mm. It handles well, feeds through the Gri Gri easily, durable, and super lightweight.
Anyone using anything thinner? Thinking of something for just rapping like a Petzl RAD.
Thinner means you won't be leading on it unless you're going with double/twin ropes. There's not much in the sub 9 mm range yet and it really is for limited applications, you're not going to work your sport project on an 8.7 mm rope (unless your pockets are way deep). I use a 9.1 or 9.2 when I have to walk far (using one of the BD ropes lately) and a cheap 9.8 when the crag is close or I know there will be lots of top-ropes or other shenanigans.Quote:
Originally Posted by hafjell
As far as the Petzl RAD system goes, it's not really climbing-oriented and 30 m is a deal breaker. I have a dedicated 8 mm static rope I bought years ago to use for rappelling on long routes only but it's a PITA to trail. IMO you'd be better of with a dedicated 6 or 7 mm rappel/pull cord carried in a pack to supplement the lead rope. Seems to be the most common system you see in places with long ass routes like Red Rock.
Regular single rope + 6 or 7 mm pull line
Got it, thank you. Was thinking of using it only to rappel while skiing. Wondering if the climbing crew had any experience with super thin lines for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissal
Oh for skiing the RAD would work great. I've never rapped on a 6 mm line though, it's way skinny. You'd definitely want to use a munter or a re-direct if going with a belay device or you'll burn a hole in your gloves. I have a 30 m 7 mm line and always feel a bit spooked when I rappel something vertical, the weight of the pack/skis/gear is noticeable. Mine is dynamic for the rare times I'd want to rope up and lead a pitch.
I've rapped my fat ass on two strands of 6mm perlon (static) using carabiner brake method, 3 cross biners I think
As long as you put enough friction in the system it's fine, agreed. I just wouldn't expect to send it on a standard ATC without things getting a bit heated...Quote:
Originally Posted by GeezerSteve
This. I've rapped off a munter on a RAD and it was kind of terrifying (just weird trusting your weight to something so skinny). But man did that thing feel good in the pack compared to any other rope I've used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissal
Thanks for the replies. I've heard of folks stuffing both ends through one notch/side of an ATC. I've heard of using the Edelrid MicroJul. Also a super munter. Just wish Petzl would make a specific rap device for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyasian
You also may be able to use a standard ATC for rapping if you use two, identical biners to increase friction through your device. One other thing to check out would be determining if some 4mm cord will work for backing up your rap with a prussic knot.
I've read this a hundred times; guess I have to trust it.
Interesting that the two lockers aren't the same (am I reading it correctly: one H and one round profile?) and are not opposed. Does the rope need a consistent surface to run across (which wouldn't be provided by two opposed D's)?
I think it means that you can use round or H lockers - see a bit further below where it shows a single locker and still shows the round and H logos. I don't see why they would have to be different - but I've always used a munter with thinner ropes so my knowledge is admittedly limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by hafjell
I'm also curious about why they are not opposite and opposed though!
The 2 biners are purely to increase friction. They could be opposed for added safety but I think the argument is that if one locker is good enough, 2 is simply overkill and treating them as non-locking biners (which you have to oppose) is not necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyasian
From this season on I will use a RAD Line by Petzl for the intended use on ski tours: rappels and Glacier Travel.
I think for the rappels you should go with two binders that have a big cross section and a atc/ reverso. Rappeling with a munter hitch has always been a pain in the ass but there are / will be special eights to handle the new super thin ropes. You could consider this as well.
For glacier travel I would go with the Petzl (no other brand) as they have a special design of the surface to go with the tribloc.
For quick ski belays and cuts, I find standard ATC use is pretty good on the 5.5-6mm skinnies. For steeper raps, I’ve found that stuffing both ropes into a single slot gives immensely more control than the double-biners, and doesn’t require the extra gear. I was using an already small DMM bugette, and the control improvement for a single notch was significant.
Super munter works really well on skinny ropes, or even a single skinny rope and it doesn't twist it
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