Since we have some healthcare dentists here, I’m interested in your takes on this article:
http://theweek.com/articles/791236/f...forall-problem
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Since we have some healthcare dentists here, I’m interested in your takes on this article:
http://theweek.com/articles/791236/f...forall-problem
This is treading the line with PolyAss.
I like universal healthcare, but really how do you feel about pasta? Are you pro-carb or anti-carb? I try to stay healthy, buy holy fuck a bowl of Fettuccine in Alfredo is a guilty pleasure of mine. Definitely worth the calories. So good.
" A Health Affairs study of eight rich countries, for instance, found U.S. hospitals spent by far the highest faction of their budgets on administration, at 25.3 percent — while those of the Netherlands spent 19.8 percent, the U.K. spent 15.5 percent, and Canada spent 12.4 percent. "
we have universal HC up here but it only covers visits to an MD/ hospital/x-ray and as far as i know they just bill the gov directly so there is no insurance company involved
it does not include dental, drugs, vision, PT (which may or may not be covered by private insurance) all reasons why the admin costs might be so low
My old man recently had major medical incident that involved a couple ambulance rides, a medevac halfway across the province (that had to turn around at least once so he didn't die), a night in the trauma ward, 3 days in the ICU, emergency surgery, and some diagnostic stuff. He's fine now but I really wonder what the bill would have been south of the border. Didn't cost him a cent. And he's unemployed (retired?) with no special insurance.
30% of California on Medi-Cal, a form of Medicaid. I can tell you first hand that it is excellent insurance. Much better than the corporate scam. Frees up a lot of money that gets spent on the economy.
You'd think the party in charge might want to keep the morons who put them in charge alive for a while so they can stay in charge, but no.
If you've successfully unplugged the olds from reality AND you change the rules to keep young people from voting, you can probably keep hanging on to power long enough to assfuck the country and feather your best for another 20 years. It's a gamble by McConnell, but he's been laughing all the way to the bank and he only has to pull it off for a little while longer. He will be dead soon enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Im a medicare broker, and I’m a big fan of it. Right now we are fighting the privatization of medicarenwith medicare Advantage plans that cost the trust approx 15% more, but give insurance companies lots of profits while cutting benefits.
Anyway, it all sounds good in the article, except there is no mention of where the money comes from to provide that coverage for all in 4 yrs? What would be the new medicare tax?
"Thanks to the Koch Brothers, We Have More Proof that Single Payer Saves Money and Cares for All of Us"
"A study that was intended to make the case against Medicare for All reveals that the reform could save Americans trillions of dollars."
https://www.thenation.com/article/th...r-saves-money/
There are plenty of other examples, but, you know...Russia.
I was asking a financial analysis question. The linked article went much deeper than merely referring to the analysis FLS linked to.
Not to worry, "socialized" healthcare isn't going to invade the USA any time soon.
America is fortunate to have the freedom to choose the HC they can not afford
I am being a little bit facetious there, Canadians are all for the most part completely ignorant of what their health care costs, I show up at hospitol reception with nothing which is good cuz I don't even have to give her my medical number cuz its in there somewhere so I give her my name, she asks if i live at yada yada and what's my birthday she's got me in like 15 seconds and bam ... I'm in
damn..Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirshredalot
Can't get rid of McConnell soon enough, so we can get back to...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirshredalot
"DEMOCRATIC SUPERDELEGATE, IN ROOM FULL OF HEALTH INSURANCE EXECUTIVES, LAUGHS OFF PROSPECT OF SINGLE PAYER"
"ACTIVISTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY have provided real momentum to the idea of a single-payer health care system, pressing the issue in California and among leading figures in the Democratic Party.
The mere prospect of single payer, however, has elicited swift derision from some corners of the party, with Dick Gephardt, the former Democratic House minority leader, laughing off the idea at a health insurance conference earlier this month.
“Not in my lifetime,” scoffed Gephardt, when asked if the United States will ever adopt such a system.
Gephardt, who serves as a Democratic “superdelegate” responsible for choosing the party’s presidential nominee, was asked about the possibility of single payer at the Centene Corporation annual investor day conference at The Pierre, a ritzy five-star hotel in New York City."
Looking forward, to getting back, to dick.
So in Canada, is there a private health care industry in addition to the one that serves the public? Meaning can somebody who is rich hire a doctor who works outside the public health system for rich cash-paying clients, maybe get seen sooner, or not have to wait for surgery or whatever (as I've heard is sometimes an issue)? Or are there laws to prevent doctors from working outside the public system like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
they go to 'merica and the canadian gov pays 80% - no fucking shit
yeah in Canada an MD or hospital cannot bill outside the system that would be considered a private clinic and is verboten, in the news you hear about MD's who have tried to run a private clinic that have been in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
A rich Canadian can go south and pay US doctors, I don't know how it works i don't know how widespread this is (i don't think it is) because Canadian medicine is pretty good out side of some long wait times and the average life expectancy is really pretty good at i beleive 14th in the world
to my knowledge there is no insurance company paying for MD's or hospitals, I believe the doc knows exactly what is kosher and he just bills it directly so there is no back and forth with an insurance company on routine procedures so in Canada anything involving the doc & hospitol we never see any kind of bill,
the other stuff, the dental/vision/PT/drugs is not considered part of the universal HC system but it is often covered by whatever private company your employer contracted, so I personaly have a Sunlife HCSA with a 1500$ yearly allowable that IBM will pay until I quit breathing but many people have nothing
There are private md providers. They can do specific - not covered work I believe. Like non-necessary plastic surgery etc. and there is another workers comp exemption- but I am not sure how it works.
The Canadian Health Act defines what health care services are covered under the Act. Services outside of the Act are not covered (but may be provided under the provincial authority that provides insurance under the federal Act). This includes dental, vision, PT, prescription drugs, and some elective treatment/surgery like cosmetic surgery. For those services, private insurance is available. Some provinces (like BC and AB) charge a premium for health care, but treatment can not be denied if your account is in arrears. You can also not be denied treatment when visiting another province, subject to a waiting period for new residents that are in the process of moving.
my ex wife was an admitting clerk at Surrey Memorial which is 12km from blaine and also in the middle of the largest indo Canadian population in Canada and she said they never refused people who were obviously American or from india
Wait there's no dental coverage under Canadian healthcare? Come on man.
Only if you are a refugee or on welfare. Basic dental care is a sore point for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
no, dental is not really life threatening and its never been part of the health act, I supose when you actualy write it down there are lots of things not covered by universal HC in Canada but if you need to see an MD or go to the hospitol its covered
I think the FN somehow get free dental BCH
but average canadians depend on their workplace dental & vision plans
the MD's and dentists i know all seem to be doing pretty good
That's so assbackwards. A lot of serious health problems can be avoided through regular basic dental care.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Interesting article here about how much they make. It actually seems surprisingly murky. But the tl;dr version is that the average Canadian doctor probably nets (after office expenses and taxes) about $130,000 CAN. That's how I read it anyway. There is a range, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...rticle7750697/
Duno how it is down there but like the article sez up here they pretty much all incorporate, I'm reading that a lot of the new MD's don't get an office, just locum and some specialties don't need offices or staff
Yup, but that is specified under the federal Indian Act, and associated Indian Health Policy. I am not intimate with any linkage between the Canada Health Act and the Indian Act, but basic health care is covered under the provincial/territory insurance, and the other stuff falls under the Non-Insured Health Benefits program, paid for by the feds.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
True, but it's not quite as assbackwards as no healthcare at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
What I wonder is, is there any incentive for a Canadian doctor to work harder, learn more stuff, etc. than another doctor? I know our system sucks but at least in general the smart guys get rewarded with better jobs and more money and it's theoretically possible to identify them through that.
Dental insurance is expensive for what you get. Basically a net $1k-$1.5k benefit. I’d trade that for universal care every day.
My personal observation is that geography plays a bit part. Family docs have the highest overhead, specialists in the hospital have the lowest. Hospitals, especially the advanced trauma care facilities, are few and far between compared to countries/regions with more evenly distributed populations. So most physicians are trying to get to the centres where the major hospitals (and universities with medical programs) are. Real shortage of family physicians in the rural towns over most of the country, and british or s.african accents are very common in those rural clinics.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
So in Canada, if you need an ACL repair, do you get to choose what doctor you want to do the surgery, or do you get assigned to somebody?
My understanding is yes. All specialist referrals need to go through your primary physician, and in consultation with them you can request a specific specialist. That said, popular specialists will likely have significant wait times for treatment. Some provinces are trying out a centralized or pooled referral system, but I don’t know what that effect has been on wait times.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
When I tore mine, I went to a family doctor to get a referral to a surgeon. It works somewhat like an HMO in that respect. I didn't know who would be a good surgeon anyways and yelp didn't exist back then. The surgeon this doctor wanted me to see had a 9-10mo waitlist just for an initial appointment. Turned out that's because he is one of the best and most sought after and is still the Canucks team surgeon. Maybe the wait time would have been less for someone who wasn't so highly recommended. For me it was worth the wait. Once I had the initial exam I had my choice of any surgery date starting about 2 weeks out. Incidentally my total cost for that surgery was having to pay $8 for a copay for percocet prescription and $25 for crutches. Hard goods like crutches or knee brace aren't covered by Canada health plan.
I tore my ACL earlier this year and got a full comparison under US health system. Wait time was just a few weeks to see a surgeon, no referral required. Picked the earliest possible surgery time which was a few weeks later. Total out of pocket on my insurance plan is $4k, and that is what I've paid. The big difference aside from the wait time has been getting a copy of every bill from every provider. It has totalled $59k so far. The insurance company, bless their hearts, has negotiated rates that brought that cost down to about $13k in actual cost. Any mistake on behalf of insurance or provider seems to be my responsibility to sort out as both sides have ranged from unhelpful to completely incompetent.
The whole in-network vs out-of-network discrepancy is pretty asinine. It makes no sense to bill someone who has no health insurance such a ridiculous amount. Wouldn't it be easier to negotiate rates that are the same across all networks and they you could go to any provider you choose? And they would be more affordable for everyone, so maybe they'd collect more of it. It just seems like its all geared to make things as opaque as possible so they can make more money due to lack of transparency. What other industry gets away with providing critical services without you having any opportunity to do price comparisons and find out what it will actually cost?
I can't help but think that significant improvements could have been made to the health care system here without Obamacare, just by putting in some simple rules to improve transparency and behavior among providers. But on the other hand the cost we probably need mandatory minimum insurance coverage in order to bring costs under control. Without it, too many people forego insurance because they are "healthy", when in reality they are just a bad car crash or cancer diagnosis away from massive medical bills that will now get passed on to everyone else through higher costs. Including the rich people who complain that under public health insurance they'd have to subsidize health care for the poor. Well guess what... you already are.
Interesting. But what if it's not an ACL, what if it's a brain tumor? Can't wait ten months for brain surgery. My brother had a tumor and my mom, who at the time was a nurse at the University of Minnesota hospital, found the absolute best surgeon practically in the world to do the operation, and it was done almost immediately. I'm guessing in Canada you would be in a tough spot if you needed brain surgery and the best surgeons were booked solid. To this day the doctors say my brother is the highest functioning post-cranial they've ever seen. My mom's efforts, and her insider knowledge of the surgical staff at the University at that time, surely had a lot to do with that.
Anyway, just asking these questions because I'm curious what Americans would be sacrificing by switching to a Canada-like national health care system.
One thing I've heard about, but don't know how true it currently is or how much it really affects things, is a relative scarcity of high-tech machinery in Canada. About 7-8 or so years ago I was talking to a Doctor about this same general topic, and he claimed that there were more MRI machines in Greater Boston than there were in Canada.
He said it was because there's financial motivation for US hospitals to get the equipment and that that they don't have that motivation in Canada, in fact kind of the opposite. He wasn't claiming that Canadian doctors are bad and was emphatic on that, or that the standard of care was bad, just that resources are scarcer in that system and that affects the way things are diagnosed and treated.
Seems reasonable, but I still wish we had that system regardless.
holy shit, you'd just go to another country. like all kinds of US people are doing because they couldn't afford shit in the US, or they didn't have all kinds of awesome connections to get the absolute best care in the US for dirt fucking cheap (which 95%+ of the US doesn't have).
well, except the US people who just go without and end up dead, or just leaches in one way or another.
Goddamn this fear mongering is fucking retarded. We - the US - can't continue to pay the escalating cost of healthcare in % GDP. We can't, no matter what fucking label you put on it. It'll eat the US alive. So we need to fix it somehow - align market forces to allow individuals to make informed choices, or socialize the costs somehow. Or something else. But it's not fucking sustainable as is. Doing the same is a choice and a fatal one.
If you're talking about my post I think it was pretty even-handed.
there've been all kind of money incentives for people to invest in machines that don't improve care:Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/fu...haff.2009.1099
that's a paper from memory, if it's wrong, please someone correct me.
the point - that our healthcare spending - public or private - isn't sustainable stands.
I don't see anybody fear mongering. People have a right to ask legitimate questions about socialized medicine.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree