All animals are equal, but some are more equal
https://www.ctpost.com/highschool/ar...o-12967306.php
Printable View
All animals are equal, but some are more equal
https://www.ctpost.com/highschool/ar...o-12967306.php
Chess.
I didn’t have that on my bingo card.
It seems men are crossing over to women’s chess to win. I didn’t see that coming.
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/Tr...derRegulations
Stanley Omondi, disguised himself & cheated through Chess Kenya open as a woman where he was poised to win Sh500K. Omondi, kept his identity a secret by wearing a niqab and using the name Millicent Awuor.
I hope I wake up one day to find out this is all just a bad dream.
There's plenty of biological differences within men and women even for those born as men and women where people will be generally eliminated from contention at top levels. If you're a swimmer with a negative ape index or a basketball player a standard deviation shorter (or more) than average, you're seeing the same thing happen. Was it fair for the people that played against LeBron when he was in high school?
If we want to do this right, we need to realistic about individual likely potential and handicap or group against that - something like five buckets that include men and women with an open category at the top.
Hard to argue against the physiological advantage of going through puberty with testes pumping out testosterone that increase hemoglobin, lean muscle mass, height, cardiac output, and bone density.
Qualifying transgender athletes based on testosterone levels does not account for the true physiological advantages biological men have when competing against women.
That already exists. There is no rule saying women cannot play in pro men's leagues (see golf for examples of women who have played pro men competitions in the modern era).Quote:
Originally Posted by schuss
Depends on the sport, though. Not many sports in the Olympics, for example, are open to both men and women in the same events although there a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I wouldnt doubt the IOC has specific sex guidelines for mens vs womens sports... but realistically, the women's sports are just slower/lower/lighter versions of the same mens sports. I dont think there are any olympic sports that are fundamentally different or only open to one of the sexes? maybe artistic gymnastics if thats still even a thing? Synchronized swimming? Even womens (real) gymnastics only has a single discipline that is fundamentally different from the mens disciplines.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Next year men will be allowed in the team event for artistic swimming (new name for synchro) for the first time. I believe rhythmic gymnastics is still women only.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Good, can we have a doping and non doping category too?
I’d love to see that in MMA…full doped, no guilt, monsters.Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog
That's usually a country level split.Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog
right? I really can't get my mind around how this is happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnepa
The backlash is going to be brutal.
This is a tough one. First, what's in the article is rare, but obviously does happen.
I'm about as woke as it gets, but if something doesn't seem fair, it probably isn't. Maybe get rid of the male/female categories, have all times listed together with gender also listed. Cis and trans. I mean it sure seems like individually competitive sports could just have multiple categories.
I'm basic, but ELI5. Why can't sports separate athletes based on genes? XX AND XY.
It's not too hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
Considering all factors about 10% of the population can fall under the "intersex" category. Scientifically sex is on a spectrum. Sociologically gender is on a spectrum. Most people have historically been forced into the binary because of social pressures. Now that those social pressures are disappearing more people, especially in the younger generation are rejecting the binary. As a society we aren't adapting to this very well, because one side desperately wants to rebuild those social pressures. (To put it lightly)
I posted a video of this but then deleted it, because of the blatantly insulting commentary. However, I will post Michael Bisping's take on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
https://www.sportbible.com/ufc/news-...-wmma-20210917
Incidentally, the percentage of intersex individuals is not 10% but 1.7% according to Amnesty International.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...ed-to-shatter/
As everything it depends on the parameters used, hence why I added "considering all factors". The 1.3-1.7% figure is specifically attributed to "physically identifiable traits".
But, the percentage is irrelevant as either way it proves that biologically sex is not a binary.
How would this work, though? At the highest level it would be all those who were born male. No woman would ever win an Olympic medal again.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer
Really? Olympic ribbon dancing is going to be won by men?Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Great, you found the one event where women will continue to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Life is not fair. And no one's rights are absolute. When a trans woman who has gone through male puberty is allowed to compete against other women her right (actually it's a priviliege, not a right but that's a different argument) to compete is respected but the right (again, it's really a privilege) of many other women to have a fair chance to win is not respected. In this case the right of the many outweighs the right of the one, IMO. That is not always the case--depending on what the competing rights are. It's case by case.
In the case of sports there is a very easy solution that respects both the right to participate and the right to fair competition-- the trans runner should be allowed to compete--against me, while recognizing her as a woman. Not that unusual, particularly at the lower age groups. So she still has the right to compete, just not as good of a chance to win (but I bet she would have beat me at that age).
And for the record--at one time Lynn Hill was the best pure rock climber in the world, male or female. First free ascent of the El Cap nose and first to do it in less than 24 hours. (That's free, not free solo--for those who might not know the difference.)
Sometimes I want to identify as a 10 year old..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKv6o7YqHnE
I remember in 2nd grade hockey after the end of the regular season they had us playing the city adult women's hockey team. We were laughing thinking they'd suck. They beat the living shit out of us hahahahaha!
Medal for each category? Cis Male, trans male, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
You could do that, but it would certainly de-value the medals a bit. How many world caliber trans lugers--for example--are there really going to be? Do you really deserve an Olympic gold medal because you're the only trans luger in the world?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer
My opinion would be that if you decide to change your sex through surgery and/or drugs you have to accept that your life is going to change radically. Part of that change may be that you can no longer participate in athletics at certain levels because it's unfair to the other competitors.
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a4454...sgender-women/
…goes into many aspects of this topic.
I was unaware/surprised that there are male/female divisions in chess? Is this actually an issue? What’s the logic?
I get “athletics,” but why would any of the arguments matter in chess?
Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
That’s what fried my brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by smartyiak
Why women’s chess?
It’s not physical. It’s all mental. I thought chess was chess.
Imagine the rage to come about trans women kindergarten teachers..
Bravo to UCI, the topic of advantage can not be simplified to a testosterone lab value.Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
Plenty of research citing continued benefit of anabolic steroids after discontinuation of use. Going through puberty with functioning Leydig cells is a huge anabolic advantage that is clinical and scientific fact.
I agree with old goat, life isn’t always fair. We are bending rules for what, 0.25% of athletes so the rest suffer?
I find it funny how everyone spends so much time worrying about that 0.25% of athletes, all competing in sports they will never, ever care about.
However, on the topic of transgender athletes, intersex is a bit of a red herring. Again, from Amnesty International:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer
Myth 4: Intersex people are transgender.
Being intersex has nothing to do with being transgender.
This discussion actually affects only half of trans folks. No one is trying to stop trans men from competing with men, lol. This issue only exists for trans women. That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin
My 13 y o grand daughter is playing tight end for the HS FB team this year at 5'9 160lbs. When I played JV O line TE as a starter I was 5' 5' 120lbs. Is that fair? Should anyone care?
Interesting data above. 65,000 babies born each year with parts that don't match their chromosomes. Hence the speck of truth that the religious far right conspiracy mongers use saying that doctors are cutting off the penis of little boys. Yup. So what?
Fixed it for you. We're getting outraged over latest count in my state 3 in 200K student athletes grade 6-12Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Looks like SIX in the entire state of Ohio..
You numbers are massively inflated just like the rage over a huge nothing burger.. A solution looking for a problem. Is it fair? Probably not.. But is it a significant problem yet? Also probably not..Quote:
How many transgender high school athletes are there in Ohio?
The OHSAA reports only six transgender students are currently playing on girls' sports teams in Ohio's high schools. Rep. Mary Lightbody (D-New Albany) asked about legal implications of this legislation and how this bill affects Title IX protections. Powell responded it complies with the federal civil rights law.Mar 8, 2023
Even counting just girls teams your number is massively inflated..
Also you don't get to pad the numbers by 50% by only including girls sports. There are also biological females playing men's sports.. Wrestling, football, baseball.. Nobody seems to have a problem with that.. unless they're trans...
I imagine there are just a lot more men playing chess at a high level than women. Not sure why. Probably comes down to men tend to be more competitive, and/or feel the need to waste their time on things like chess and sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
After watching the WC I have to disagree with the less competitive thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
I was guessing on the number, I suck at math, bravo to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by SumJongGuy
It’s a big enough concern that the UCI, World Athletics had to address it as well as other international athletic associations. No need to get enraged at me.