15 or 30 rated sleeping bag? (Are EN bag ratings trustworthy?)

My wife and I are inexperienced campers and are prepping for a trip. We need to buy a couple sleeping bags and like the looks of some Nemos. They sell a 15 and a 30 model with the following ratings:
15: comfort 30f/1c Limit 19f/-7c Extreme -13f/-25c
30: comfort 34f/1c Limit 23f/-5c Extreme -7f/-22c

All I really know about traditional ratings is they are lying liars that are not to be trusted. Both Nemo and REI suggested the 30. My gut says 15, but that's based off old style ratings. I'm surprised that there really isn't that much difference in the ratings... I would have guess 15 degrees of comfort given the name. Does the relatively small difference also apply to comfort in warmer weather?

We will be in a truck-top tent with a padded mattress and overnight lows average 45f/7.2c. Average daytime highs are 81f/26.6c We are unlikely to want to sleep in long underwear and hats like the standard suggests. We will pack long underwear if we need to, but we'd have to know ahead of time.

Car camping, go with 15, nothing wing with being cozy.

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Always go warmer, is my opinion. I also like to have bags with a full zip, and if it's not too cold, I can use the bag as a blanket.

15 for sure. It always feels colder than you think it's going be. Girls get way colder than guys too. I bought my wife a 0 degree to cut back on the complaints.

Yeah, go colder for car camping. Looks like you're not buying for light weight. So, what do you like about the Nemos? I don't get it.

Colder it is, thanks!

The primary draw is the peanut shape and comfort features. It seemed a more comfortable in the store. Other than that, just your typical jong reasons: looks cool, a friend likes the brand, salesman input, and it seemed like a good balance of cost and features. They are ~$300 but I'd probably wait for a 20% off coupon from REI or Backcountry.

http://www.nemoequipment.com/product...%2FKey%20Lime)

I'd like good quality bags, but think some of the high dollar features like extreme light weight might be lost on us. Packability is a plus because of checked baggage. Car camping in temperate climates is more our speed than primitive backcountry.

This trip is three weeks in South Africa. The camping difficulty level won't be high, but it would really suck to be uncomfortable for that long.

I'll throw in a suggestion to get a double bag for a 3 week trip with your wife. We have a big agnes 15 that we like, but we did just have to warranty it as some of the stitching was coming apart...

One double bag will be lighter, more comfortable, easier to pack, and cheaper than two separate bags.

Plus more sexy times.

Source: Own a sweet double quilt. Only problem is damn dog gets in the way sometimes.

She will be way too pissed off about camping to touch me, don't worry.

Other plusses of two bags: less kicking, more versatility. She tosses, turns and steals covers. I think I'd get more restful sleep alone.

We are mixing in some cabins, huts and hides to soften the trip a bit (and some areas don't have safe camping). Enjoy a real bed every once in awhile.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

One double bag will be lighter, more comfortable, easier to pack, and cheaper than two separate bags.

Plus more sexy times.

Source: Own a sweet double quilt. Only problem is damn dog gets in the way sometimes.

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This is a great idea til you try it. SHE now has the double to herself along with the 2 little dogs. Me thrilled a few feet away on my own mattress & my coveted quilt. We sleep wonderfully now that the crazy notion to snuggle is long gone from our camping.

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Originally Posted by RustyGroomer

This is a great idea til you try it. SHE now has the double to herself along with the 2 little dogs. Me thrilled a few feet away on my own mattress & my coveted quilt. We sleep wonderfully now that the crazy notion to snuggle is long gone from our camping.

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Tried is about 40 days so far in the van, and about 15 backpacking. So far so good.

Honey and I use our double bag (fancy FF Spoonbill w/custom spec shell) and single bags (FF summer or winter) about 50/50. We sleep fine in both. If I had to choose one system, it'd be two single bags that zip together. Glad I am not required to make that decision because for 3-season I prefer a sleeping quilt, while Honey prefers a light mummy.

Re Nemo, the peanut shape looks to be a marketing gimmick. If you want more leg/knee room for car camping, get 2 decent quality rectangular or semi-rectangular bags that zip together to make a big double bag. That'll give you the option of 2 single bags or one double bag. Decent quality down bags will last you a lifetime with due care.

I think it's highly partner dependent.

When we get the hotel room with two beds it is glorious.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Tried is about 40 days so far in the van, and about 15 backpacking. So far so good.

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Power to you. I don't know how you do it. The one bag snuggle lasted about one night w/us.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Honey and I use our double bag (fancy FF Spoonbill w/custom spec shell) and single bags (FF summer or winter) about 50/50. We sleep fine in both. If I had to choose one system, it'd be single bags.

Re Nemo, the peanut shape seems to be a marketing gimmick. If you want more leg/knee room for car camping, get 2 decent quality rectangular or semi-rectangular bags that you can use separately or zip together to make a big double bag. Decent down bags will last you a lifetime with due care.

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Now that I have the temp nailed down, I'll make sure to try some rectangular bags as well. I'm not all that hung up on Nemo, that's just what stood out so far.

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Originally Posted by RustyGroomer

Power to you. I don't know how you do it. The one bag snuggle lasted about one night w/us.

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Maybe its the bag? Ours is big, long and has separate little neck-holder things: https://enlightenedequipment.com/accomplice/

Have you considered farts?

African diet, no showers, bubble gut. Single bags, spring for the overcoat seal from the dealer.

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Originally Posted by TexasGortex

Now that I have the temp nailed down, I'll make sure to try some rectangular bags as well.

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If there's any chance you'll someday get into backpacking, expand your search to include 2 mummy bags that can be zipped together with righty/lefty compatible zippers.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Maybe its the bag? Ours is big, long and has separate little neck-holder things: https://enlightenedequipment.com/accomplice/

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Maybe it's just that we like to be as far away from one another as possible? :)

Truthfully we both thrash around i'm sure. 2 little dogs always climbing in doesn't help either.

rectangle bags rule. Mine is a good 20 yrs old. Although i hardly use it anymore due to quilt. Nothing better for me. Ridiculously light (no zipper) 3 season warm, not restrictive @ all. I'll probably freeze someday in it as i love it so much i'm convinced it's always warm enough.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

If there's any chance you'll someday get into backpacking, expand your search to include 2 mummy bags that can be zipped together with righty/lefty compatible zippers.

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That was one of the features of the Nemo. I doubt we would use it, but it could be enough to choose one bag over another. I'm definitely trying to buy with an eye towards the future. Nothing worse than rebuying gear unnecessarily.

I've got temp and size/shape down. I'll start narrowing by cost, quality, and features next. We don't have stringent demands (like weight), so hopefully we can find something nice in the middle of the road.

Righty/lefty mateable zipper mummy bags are common

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Righty/lefty mateable zipper mummy bags are common

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I don't think it was missing from any of the bags I looked it. I've made a note to check before purchasing though.

Now that you've nailed down what you want, allow me to differ. 30 deg, rectangular, synthetic bag like this
https://www.rei.com/product/111260/r...0-sleeping-bag
you're car camping in South Africa in the summer (it appears). I've had more miserable nights in too warm a bag than in too cool. Remember you will be in a tent which will be warmer than the outside temp. Sure--you can unzip the bag or use it as a quilt but I've never found that to be satisfactory--I guess I like the security/cocoon feeling of a zipped up bag. If you get a freak cold spell you can put on more clothes--I'm usually in nothing more than my skivvies. At that price, if you find yourself camping in cold temps or backpacking you won't feel bad about buying a warmer, lighter bag. A 15 deg bag is what I use for 11,000 ft in the Sierra or Rockies in the summer. (Western Mountaineering bag).

If you haven't yet purchased, TX, I think old goat's post points to a pretty iportant issue in sleeping bags. People vary almost as much as conditions do. Many years ago, SWMBO and I bought bags. We wanted them to zip together, so we bought matching bags. We wanted versatility, so we chose a product with an integrated liner that could be add or remove additional insulation. They've been great bags for me, SWMBO not so much. I sleep hot, she doesn't. That means that usin the excact same bag, she never removes the added liner, and is cold on 40 degree nights unless she wears long underwear and a hat and goes full mummy. She won't rely on this bag at all for temps colder than that. I've used these bags for everything, no liner for warm summer nights using it as a blanket, fully mummy with liner down to about 30 degrees, and even once using both bags for a solid night's sleep in temps below 10f.

Bag ratings are guesses, you have to know how you and the wife sleep to buy bags. If I was doing it again, me and SWMBO would not own the same bag at least not for backpacking. I'd have something very similar to what we own, maybe a touch warmer with a goretex shell for those nights I feel like sleeping under the stars. She'd have 5 pounds of 800-fill down with a silk interior. Temp ratings are somewhat useful for comparisons, but choosing a bag is intensely personal, and has to reflect how YOU sleep.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Maybe its the bag? Ours is big, long and has separate little neck-holder things: https://enlightenedequipment.com/accomplice/

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jesski (the missus) and I have this bag in 0F. Love it, and are planning to purchase a lighter one (30F) for summer. We also have the typical issues with me running very hot and her running pretty cold, but contrary to other people's experience, the double bag allows us to share heat. It's worked quite well so far. I don't love the separate neck holder unless it's chilly and we haven't really pushed the temp rating yet (gotten down to maybe 15F or so). I haven't counted the nights we've spent it in, but its more than a handful and so far it's been great. One thing that made a huge difference was buying the Exped synmat duo hyperlite (for summer backpacking). I really wish exped made a Downmat Hyperlite "duo" but until then we've just used separate pads in the winter -- which kind of sucks. I wonder if the people who didn't like shared bags had issues with separate pads?

Enlightened Equipment offers a very good value. Down doesn't last forever -- it loses loft in approx 3-5 years of regular use. (For that reason, I prefer 800-850 fp over 900+.) Lots of info on quilts and their proper use in Tech Talk, mostly by Big Steve. Much lighter than individual bags + pads and much more comfy for snuggling.

Not saying Tex should go with a quilt; just giving another vote for the EE Accomplice.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Down doesn't last forever -- it loses loft in approx 3-5 years of regular use.

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I thought good down bags were supposed to last a lifetime?

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Originally Posted by thejongiest

I thought good down bags were supposed to last a lifetime?

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Why?

Down definitely loses loft, and therefore warmth, over time. This is especially true if you aren't careful with how you stuff them into a compression sack (the shear forces break down the down fibers) or god forbid store the bags compressed.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Why?

Down definitely loses loft, and therefore warmth, over time. This is especially true if you aren't careful with how you stuff them into a compression sack (the shear forces break down the down fibers) or god forbid store the bags compressed.

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I don't know, I've read it informally so many places. It makes sense that they degrade, but no one really seems to ever say that.

But when you say 3-5 years, is that the usuable lifetime? To what degree does it lose loft and over how many days? Is this degredation of the feathers or loss of total feathers?

3-5 years certainly isn't a hard and fast rule, but I'd guess a hard/daily user will see loss of warmth within 3 years, depending on how careful they are. 10+ years of intermittent use is totally reasonable if it's mostly stored uncompressed. I noticed my down jacket losing warmth after about 5 years of somewhat-regular use, but I wasn't particularly careful about stuffing it into the compression sack. Now I'm more careful about rolling it, but sometimes I still stuff it when I need it in there quickly.

It's degradation of feathers, not loss of them. From the Stephenson's warmlight website:

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Life of insulation: If you lie on the insulation in your sleeping bag or parka, and then move sideways to turn over, you put shearing force on the insulation. That tears synthetic insulations, and rolls Down into pieces of “string” from which it will never recover. Stuffing your bag or parka does the same thing, plus puts excessive loads on seams. Prior to 1966 we had people bring 2 to 3 year old bags in to restore loft, and we found the lost loft was entirely due to “strings” of Down caused by lying on it. Since 1966 our bags with pads IN them have never had that problem. If you are using a bag loose on a separate pad, put some straps on the bag bottom to hold it securely to the pad, and shift as much of the Down out to sides and top as you can so you won’t lie on it. To pack a bag, always carefully fold and roll it. Uniform end compression of the roll to fit in a sack won’t harm it. Don’t stuff anything you don’t want to rapidly destroy!

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Thats why I would look into the options for maintenance as well. A good company will offer a service to refill your down when needed (not for free). You can get many years out of a good bag. I have one passed on from my dad that is still a good and warm bag. I don't know how it was when new as I was not born back then. Dad thinks it is comparable.