Nikwax in front load washimg nachines? I'm not getting good results anymore

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10-31-2016, 12:58 PM
Nobody Famous

Nikwax in front load washing machines? I'm not getting good results anymore

Nikwax Softshell Proof, for years used to work great. It made soft shell pants and jacket as DWR as I've ever seen. A few times a season I got used to doing the wash-twice cycle (TX Direct, then Softshell Proof), dry-on-low once and got consistent results. This was in a top loading washer.

The GF gets a modern, new front loading washer and all of a sudden NikWax doesn't work nearly as well as it used to. I see a big difference in the usage directions, in top loading washers you are supposed to allow the tub to fill with water, then add the required amount of NikWax (key point being the garments are thoroughly wet before NikWax enters the picture). With front loaders you add NikWax, in a lesser amount (HE washer) to the detergent dispenser, instructions are to up the dosage slightly for hard water.

Insights?
10-31-2016, 02:20 PM
XXX-er

Obviously you should get a new GF

or just wash the garment in a front loader then use a spray on product while still wet
10-31-2016, 03:04 PM
t-the-east

Nikwax in front load washimg nachines? I'm not getting good results anymore

Pre soak the garments? Do they even still make top loading washers?

Also, probably get better results if girlfriend is naked.
10-31-2016, 04:14 PM
stuckathuntermtn

I've used a bit of their stuff and it seems like, no matter what, you can never quite restore the original repelency or breathability.
Maybe your stuff is just old? :/
10-31-2016, 06:38 PM
tango uniform

Upping the dose helps. Also, one piece at a time. Otherwise you're wasting the shit.
10-31-2016, 07:10 PM
XXX-er

I never could figure out why people would buy a DWR product, dump it in the washing machine and let the excess all run down the drain when they could just spray it directly on the garment?

you can buy the waterbased stuff that you spray on to wet fabric after washing OR the solvent based stuff you spray on to a dry garment
10-31-2016, 07:31 PM
Gunder

Those wash in DWR's are worthless. Nothing worse then coating the inside of your jacket with a DWR.

Seriously just wash your gear regularly with decent soap and dry it. Thats all you have to do to keep your gear in good shape.
10-31-2016, 08:51 PM
kalisto

most success I've had...

fill up a bucket with decently warm/hot water and a cap full of that stuff. put your clean jacket in the bucket and leave it for 4-6+ hours. take it out. drip dry. then toss it in the dryer for a bit.

done wonders on my gear.

the spray is just a pain in the ass in my opinion.
10-31-2016, 09:27 PM
GeezerSteve

After your factory DWR wears off, flouro-based spray-on is the best DWR. This stuff is the best for the $$:

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/autogeek/303-h...ard-16oz-7.gif

Spray on clean dry garment, line dry.
10-31-2016, 10:17 PM
SeatownSlackey

^^@ westmarine?
11-01-2016, 03:38 AM
PNB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Steve

After your factory DWR wears off, flouro-based spray-on is the best DWR. This stuff is the best for the $$:

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/autogeek/303-h...ard-16oz-7.gif

Spray on clean dry garment, line dry.

No negative impact on breathability?
I never heard of this product and, what I could see so far, it's marketed for cars (convertible tops a.s.o.)
11-01-2016, 04:24 AM
cmcrawfo

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNB

No negative impact on breathability?
I never heard of this product and, what I could see so far, it's marketed for cars (convertible tops a.s.o.)

Marine, Auto, Aviation industry has been all over this shit for years. A buddy of mine who does marine supply turned me onto it a while back.

Better than Nikwax IMO.
11-01-2016, 08:03 AM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Steve

After your factory DWR wears off, flouro-based spray-on is the best DWR. This stuff is the best for the $$:

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/autogeek/303-h...ard-16oz-7.gif

Spray on clean dry garment, line dry.

I've heard good things about the 303 but haven't tried it yet. I think this product works extremely well and you can get it at Walmart.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news...e_threatening/

Wash in stuff is lame. Also wash with powder detergent not liquid for best results before using spray on or for general cleaning. Powdered detergent seems to leave less residue on the surface and membranes if the garment has them.
11-01-2016, 08:32 AM
Nobody Famous

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunder

Those wash in DWR's are worthless. Nothing worse then coating the inside of your jacket with a DWR.

Seriously just wash your gear regularly with decent soap and dry it. Thats all you have to do to keep your gear in good shape.

I'll agree with this for hard shells with membrane layers, but not for soft shells. For simple soft shells it works with the coating on the inside. The worst case is the inside is slippery, and glides over the under lying layer.
11-01-2016, 08:51 AM
PNB

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronWright

Also wash with powder detergent not liquid for best results before using spray on or for general cleaning. Powdered detergent seems to leave less residue on the surface and membranes if the garment has them.

Is it not the other way out?
11-01-2016, 09:07 AM
GeezerSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNB

No negative impact on breathability?
I never heard of this product and, what I could see so far, it's marketed for cars (convertible tops a.s.o.)

No adverse affect on breatheability IME. Flouro-based and seems to stick on the fabric better than Revivex, Graingers and Nikwax IME. Best of all, it's about 1/3 the price. NRS (manufacturer of kayaking garments and gear) sells it. From NRS's DWR reco page:

Quote:

Third step – reapply DWR treatment to the fabric. * * *
You need to use a product like 303 High Tech Fabric Guard, Gear Aid ReviveX Spray-On Water Repellent, Nikwax Spray-On Waterproofing or Nikwax Wash-In Waterproofing that doesn't require high heat to activate the DWR. Follow instructions carefully for best results.

Again, it's flouro-based, so spray it on a clean dry garment and allow to hang dry. You can throw it in the dryer on low after it has air dried.
11-01-2016, 09:16 AM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNB

Is it not the other way out?

Not in my experience. A lot of outdoor clothing manufacturers recommend powdered detergent.
11-01-2016, 09:26 AM
GeezerSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronWright

http://www.theroot.com/articles/news...e_threatening/

thread drift o' the week
11-01-2016, 09:50 AM
axebiker

Buy new stuff from me. Problem solved! ;)
11-01-2016, 10:17 AM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Steve

thread drift o' the week

I don't know how that happened. It's happened a couple times now. This is what I linked to
http://www.atsko.com/water-guard-extreme-12-oz-aerosol/
11-01-2016, 11:22 AM
Gunder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nobody Famous

I'll agree with this for hard shells with membrane layers, but not for soft shells. For simple soft shells it works with the coating on the inside. The worst case is the inside is slippery, and glides over the under lying layer.

That simply is not true. Think about it for a minute. if you put a DWR on the inside of any jacket, you are going to prevent heat vapor "sweat" from your body escaping out of the jacket. So in effect you are running around with a trash bag on.

The vast majority of factory "DWR" is actually microscopic hairs on the surface of the fabric that create the DWR effect. When these get matted down they quit working and dirt is one of the main things that causes that. Heat restores them by making them stand up again. Abrasion and very abrasive soap destroy them.

I am willing to bet I spend way more time then just about anyone in cold wet condtions. I quit using any DWR aftermarket products years ago and I have stayed drier ever since. The key is to KEEP YOUR GEAR CLEAN. I wash may gear at least twice a month, sometimes once a week depending if it needs it. I always follow with drying it on medium heat. By doing that I am constantly restoring the factory DWR and keeping the membranes clean so the gear actually breathes. A the fabrics are so good these days, you never get wet from the outside in... instead if you feel dampness inside of your outwear it is the inability of the membranes breathing to keep up with the activity level.
11-01-2016, 12:06 PM
XXX-er

there are 2 kinds of DWR:

there is water based DWR you put on a still wet garment and there is solvent based DWR you put is on a dry garment, IME there were several brands of water based products readily available and solvent based stuff was hard to come by but I am seeing more of the solvent based stuff

https://www.mcnett.com/gearaid/insta...ng-spray#20420

http://www.toko.ch/en/products/care-.../textile-proof

That is a new brand Steve has come up with, these ^^ are a couple more of the solvent based products, I like them for my dry suit cuz you don't need to use any dryer heat after wards like you do with the water based product which is better for latex seals

if your gortex fabric is wetting out and you haven't used any DWR then it isn't going to repel water

I have always used powdered detergent and I do a wash cycle in just water to rinse out all detergent
11-01-2016, 11:32 PM
otto parts

OP-try cleaning your dispenser with really hot water. Our front loader dispenser tends to cake up with the detergent that apparently breaks down the chemical DWR.
11-02-2016, 08:13 AM
zion zig zag

There is so much weird and conflicting info on how to reapply DWR out there, all from supposedly reputable sources. Sometimes you can even find conflicting information within one manufactures website. It's like it's voodoo magic and no one really knows.
11-02-2016, 08:42 AM
::: :::

The major clothing mfrs all seem to think that the wash-in methods are just fine. Are they wrong? Biased in some way I'm not understanding?
11-02-2016, 08:54 AM
undertow2

I have both Arcteryx and Pattagucci - all either 2 or 3L Gortex... I found this video on Arcteryx website and have used this method on both brands (Pattys website pretty much outlines the same process as Arcteryx) and this method has worked flawlessly for me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4N6ZuKTZ_c
11-02-2016, 09:13 AM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertow

I have both Arcteryx and Pattagucci - all either 2 or 3L Gortex... I found this video on Arcteryx website and have used this method on both brands (Pattys website pretty much outlines the same process as Arcteryx) and this method has worked flawlessly for me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4N6ZuKTZ_c

That's basically what I do, but what I really want to know is how they got my washer and dryer out in the woods without me noticing.
11-02-2016, 09:20 AM
XXX-er

those things grow free range all over north Vancover eh

I been using the same method for years the only difference being dry the garment if you are spraying on a solvent based DWR product
11-02-2016, 10:23 AM
GeezerSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by acinpdx

The major clothing mfrs all seem to think that the wash-in methods are just fine. Are they wrong?

It's not right vs. wrong. IME solvent-based DWR spray works better, i.e., stays on longer before it abrades off.
11-02-2016, 10:39 AM
XXX-er

yeah there is a continuim between a gortex piece never washed/treated/often repaired with ductape TO regular washing/DWR treatment/less abuse/proper repair

but why would you chose to buy a bottle of wash-in DWR which you mostly flush down the drain vs buying a bottle of spray-on all of which ends up on the garment?

except for the spray-on product which falls on the ground, I did my jacket on the wooden deck and the wood was waterproofed where ever the spray got on the wood, now I hang it in the gravel drive way or bathtub to treat
11-02-2016, 02:47 PM
axebiker

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronWright

That's basically what I do, but what I really want to know is how they got my washer and dryer out in the woods without me noticing.

Those are mushrooms.
11-05-2016, 03:21 PM
SkiLyft

How about getting grease (like oil from a dressing) out of 3L gortex??

I've tried just about everything...
11-05-2016, 04:24 PM
galibier_numero_un

One thing I picked up from the video was that I used a ton more spray on stuff than they did. So now, I realize it was overkill, time consuming and also wasteful. It sure took a long time to saturate the garment and it stunk for weeks afterwards. Worse yet, my wife wouldn't let me put it in the drier until the smell dissipated.

I have to assume that they applied the right amount. Given that, I have no idea why anyone would choose wash-in version of the product.

... Thom
11-05-2016, 04:31 PM
2FUNKY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitcc1

How about getting grease (like oil from a dressing) out of 3L gortex??

I've tried just about everything...

Goof off, or any citrus type cleaning liquid. Soak the spot, brush with a soft toothbrush, let's soak for a while, then throw it in the wash machine.
11-06-2016, 06:39 AM
undertow2

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Goof off, or any citrus type cleaning liquid. Soak the spot, brush with a soft toothbrush, let's soak for a while, then throw it in the wash machine.

This... I use this exact method (dish washing soap) and before I wash I do this to all my arm cuffs and it works like a charm...
11-06-2016, 10:34 AM
BCMtnHound

Quote:

Originally Posted by XXX-er

the spray-on product which falls on the ground, I did my jacket on the wooden deck and the wood was waterproofed where ever the spray got on the wood, now I hang it in the gravel drive way or bathtub to treat

My laundry is in the part of the basement that still has bare concrete floor. Forgot to put down a towel to soak up the excess drip, and now there is a slick spot right where I have a pivot point next to a support post. Twice a fun when wearing wool socks!