What ski do I need for every-day crud ski?

Sorry if this has been covered before in a similar way.

I just got a pair of 192 Salomon qst 118. I'm fairly confident I'm going to love these on soft days. I'd like to also own a more every day bumpy / crud buster as I've read the QST tips will deflect a lot in crud and is more of a softer ski. And when the ski hill (Snowbasin) hasn't seen snow for weeks, I'd like an every day ski.

What can I find these days used, and fairly easily to find used, that:
-has a really stiff tail
-blasts through crud at high speed, but doesn't have to blast through things at Mach looney straightline speed like a Cochise or Dicator (skis I already own). It's fine if I have to compromise and find a speed limit on it.
-turns are medium to big, easy-ish to throw around for how 'big' the ski is (I used to ski moguls so finding a bigger ski that can still pivot around in bumps is nice...but no I don't want 70-90 waist to make this happen easily for me. Hard to explain but if ya know what I'm talking about speak up!)
-maybe around 105-110 waist? No idea exactly
-I don't ski switch and am not in love with full rocker skis. Fully old school skis aren't great either.
-I'll repeat: needs a stiff tail no matter what, please and no thank you.


Thanks for pointing me in a direction!

ON3P Wrenegade 108 sounds like it fits the bill.

Sounds like a Cham 107 or Wren 108 to me, but I haven't skied either.

What do you want this to do that your Cochise doesn't already do? If you're okay with finding a speed limit, why does it need to have a super stiff tail?

Interested in what others have to say. Some opposing characteristics (really stiff tail but not mach-looney to come alive and easy to throw) will make it tough. Are you thinking something with sig tail rocker (for pivotness) but stiff tail?

I wouldn't say they're really stiff-tailed, but the Deathwish has a solid tail and certainly comes alive at lower speeds than the Cochise.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

What do you want this to do that your Cochise doesn't already do?

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This is my question also.

A Wrenegade fits the bill but will not be easy to find used. Same with Praxis Freeride and Praxis RX.

My recommendation for "easy to find used" would have been a Cochise....

4FRNT Turbo? Moment Belafonte?

Seconded auvgeek's suggestions. I would add that the first gen Cham 107 is a total tank and the second gen is easier to deal with in tight spaces. The first gen 107 needs a little speed to come alive. The flex is different, the first gen has 2 layers of metal, an ultra stiff tail and mid-section and a softish tip. The Cham 107 2.0 is more a medium-stiff all around and a little bit mellower ride.

Armada Invictus, original or newer 108ti. Probably can find used or last year's new for cheap. I'm a fat ass and I can't overpower the 188 and they're definitely not too demanding. Decent edge hold for the width and surprisingly good float.

I find the cochise pretty easy for a crud ski... What length are you skiing? Maybe go 185 iso 193?
Otherwise: Line Supernatural 108? (never skied, but based on blister)

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Originally Posted by smooth operator

I find the cochise pretty easy for a crud ski... What length are you skiing? Maybe go 185 iso 193?
Otherwise: Line Supernatural 108? (never skied, but based on blister)

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Blister put the Invictus 108 right between the 185 and 193 Cochise in terms of performance. I like the camber and they have pretty stiff tails. Not like og Cham 97/107(some of the stiffest tails on a freeride ski I've felt) but very supportive for my large carcass.

Maybe <100 so no overlap, but I am looking at the Fischer Ranger 98 Ti and the Pro Mtn 95 Ti (aka last years Motive) for similar duty.

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Originally Posted by esseff

Maybe <100 so no overlap, but I am looking at the Fischer Ranger 98 Ti and the Pro Mtn 95 Ti (aka last years Motive) for similar duty.

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I have the Motive 95 ti and I'd be happy with that as my only ski if I never skied anything deeper than boot top.

Lots of great advice, thanks everyone.

I have the older 193 Cochise, and it's kinda meh. It's not that fun unless you are doing one type of turns. I like a bit of variety in my turns. I don't know if it's the Dukes on it or what.Going to a newer generation (softer) 183 is not a bad idea, it is a good idea, but I'm not in love with this ski enough to try a different version.

As for a stiff tail, I like a ski that forces me back into the front seat if I get back, or at least lets me use the tail to push against it and gets me back into the drivers seat. Maybe I shouldn't care just look for a generally a stiff tail but not super stiff? Sounds like I need to mellow out, I'm getting old anyways. When I say I don't care about a speed limit, in my mind I'm sacrificing super top speed for turnability and I am fine with that. Top speed may only be reached on powder days on my Salomon QSTs....if I get in shape again, ha.

So:

Deathwish
Wrenegade
2nd Gen Cham
Motive 95 ti
Armada Invictus
Supernatural 108

Anything else that doesn't overlap the QSTs?

The review of the Line Supernatural 108 sounds like the perfect one quiver ski!!!!

Have heard good things about those Invictuses... too bad I'm a pussy who can't steer a cambered ski in tough snow to save my life ;)

Moment Meridian for a jibbier feel, a wee bit of rocker but still stomps hard.

Praxis RX seems too obscure to find in Utah used. Invictus doesn't actually seem like a good ski on paper, I know that means nothing...

Here's a good descriptor for what I'm looking for:

What is a good ski for skiing Silverfox at Snowbird, days after a storm, where there is fast and smooth sections, big bump sections (somewhat soft), and also some (just a few) tight moves at the bottom before a straightline through the chunder in shitty flat light? Snow is never super hard, and I'm never landing switch. Sometimes you need to slash your speed down on the run, ya know?

193 old Cochise wanted me to treat every run like a frickin FWT run in 10 turns top-to-bottom and pretend I'm never hungover, ever. I just wanna ski that has less effort on a normal day and save my extremely faux-FWT runs for powder days on the QSTs I own.

What about day old 6" - 10" Sierra crud? Did it get pushed around, or do the pushing?

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Originally Posted by AaronWright

I have the Motive 95 ti and I'd be happy with that as my only ski if I never skied anything deeper than boot top.

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Originally Posted by muted

Praxis RX seems too obscure to find in Utah used. Invictus doesn't actually seem like a good ski on paper, I know that means nothing...

Here's a good descriptor for what I'm looking for:

What is a good ski for skiing Silverfox at Snowbird, days after a storm, where there is fast and smooth sections, big bump sections (somewhat soft), and also some (just a few) tight moves at the bottom before a straightline through the chunder in shitty flat light? Snow is never super hard, and I'm never landing switch. Sometimes you need to slash your speed down on the run, ya know?

193 old Cochise wanted me to treat every run like a frickin FWT run in 10 turns top-to-bottom and pretend I'm never hungover, ever. I just wanna ski that has less effort on a normal day and save my extremely faux-FWT runs for powder days on the QSTs I own.

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189 Cham 107 2.0 or the 188 Invitcus 108 would both fit the bill, very similar shape, flex and rocker profile. Inviticus is slightly more traditional and the cham is slightly more 5 point/surfy.

I would suspect that the "193" part has more to do with you complaints of the Cochise than the "Cochise" part.

I have 186 Wren 112s and 182 Belafontes (older, pre-triple camber) for those type of conditions and love both. The Belas get used at Crested Butte where things tend more towards tight than open, the Wrens get used everywhere else (I'd ski the Wrens at Snowbird for sure). I liked my RX a lot too. All of those are gonna be hard to find used but all are great skis.

I'd think you'd have a very different experience on a 185 Cochise vs the 193. And they're relatively easy to find used. If you can find a Volkl Katana that will work too, if you're down with the whole no camber thing (I'm not). Although I haven't skied any of them, the Supernatural, Invictus, Wailer 105 T2, 4FRNT Devastator, Salomon Q-Lab, and Liberty Variant might fit the bill.

I only skied the original Cham - not the 2.0 - and although it had a nice damp feel, I just didn't dig the pintailed shape on firmer snow (15mm of taper tip to tail on the Cham 107 2.0). YMMV.

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Originally Posted by muted

Lots of great advice, thanks everyone.

I have the older 193 Cochise, and it's kinda meh. It's not that fun unless you are doing one type of turns. I like a bit of variety in my turns. I don't know if it's the Dukes on it or what.Going to a newer generation (softer) 183 is not a bad idea, it is a good idea, but I'm not in love with this ski enough to try a different version.

As for a stiff tail, I like a ski that forces me back into the front seat if I get back, or at least lets me use the tail to push against it and gets me back into the drivers seat. Maybe I shouldn't care just look for a generally a stiff tail but not super stiff? Sounds like I need to mellow out, I'm getting old anyways. When I say I don't care about a speed limit, in my mind I'm sacrificing super top speed for turnability and I am fine with that. Top speed may only be reached on powder days on my Salomon QSTs....if I get in shape again, ha.

So:

Deathwish
Wrenegade
2nd Gen Cham
Motive 95 ti
Armada Invictus
Supernatural 108

Anything else that doesn't overlap the QSTs?

The review of the Line Supernatural 108 sounds like the perfect one quiver ski!!!!

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My preference is for ON3P. But I am a longtime fan of the Influence/Supernatural series. Great DD's.

Good to know adrenalated and Leavenworth Skier!

Something a bit more surfy is not a bad thing. 189 Cham 107 2.0 sounds decent, I've seen a few for sale. I don't know much about pintail skiing. 185 Cochise might be good, and they are definitely cheap used! I can always re-sell if needed. Just a bit wary of them and want to try something new.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I only skied the original Cham - not the 2.0 - and although it had a nice damp feel, I just didn't dig the pintailed shape on firmer snow (15mm of taper tip to tail on the Cham 107 2.0). YMMV.

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The taper is way more mellow now, you hardly notice it unless you're in soft snow now. I agree, the old one didn't feel like it wanted to finish a turn. The new one is a different animal, a little more lively and a more balanced feel. Also, the flex is more balanced now, roughly the same feel through out the ski instead of the very stiff tail with a soft tip.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

The taper is way more mellow now, you hardly notice it unless you're in soft snow now. I agree, the old one didn't feel like it wanted to finish a turn. The new one is a different animal, a little more lively and a more balanced feel. Also, the flex is more balanced now, roughly the same feel through out the ski instead of the very stiff tail with a soft tip.

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Good to know. I wouldn't expect that on paper since the taper is still there. I'll try to jump on a pair if I get a chance.

Invictus and SN are both great DDs -- damp, stable and easier to break loose than a cochise. If you want to go real cheap, Nordica El Capos are often available at <$200 and are quite similar.

Motive is a great ski but it likes to finish its turns more than most others mentioned.

I'd suggest the Supernatural considering you didnt like how blah the Cochise is - wanting more fun in other turn shapes. Though that blah is also what allows the Cochise rage but then shut down so smoothly (which you said you like?). Its a great ski for Silver fox in that regard.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I would suspect that the "193" part has more to do with you complaints of the Cochise than the "Cochise" part.

I'd think you'd have a very different experience on a 185 Cochise vs the 193.

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Winner, winner chicken dinner. The first gen 185 Cochise is stupid easy to ski.

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Originally Posted by esseff

What about day old 6" - 10" Sierra crud? Did it get pushed around, or do the pushing?

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They don't get pushed around much, they're pretty heavy and fairly stiff from the shovel back. The shovel isn't exactly soft though. I tell people they ski much like the og Mantra if it had a low early rise tip. I like skis with camber. Dawgcatching use to have a review up of the Motive 95, Kastle mx 98, fx 94 and Stockli Stormrider 95. The Motive compared favorably with them all and only gave up a little to the mx 98. More energy and top end than the Stockli and fx 94.

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Originally Posted by muted

Good to know adrenalated and Leavenworth Skier!

Something a bit more surfy is not a bad thing. 189 Cham 107 2.0 sounds decent, I've seen a few for sale. I don't know much about pintail skiing. 185 Cochise might be good, and they are definitely cheap used! I can always re-sell if needed. Just a bit wary of them and want to try something new.

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I was surprised how surfy the Invictus was, I was expecting a more locked in feeling.

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Originally Posted by AaronWright

They don't get pushed around much, they're pretty heavy and fairly stiff from the shovel back. The shovel isn't exactly soft though.

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They seem to be pretty good skis based on my hand flexing, I'd love to trade you skis for a run or two sometime and try them out.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

They seem to be pretty good skis based on my hand flexing, I'd love to trade you skis for a run or two sometime and try them out.

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Anytime. Looking forward to trying out some Dynastars. I am going to tele some this year on my new to me OG Legend Pros.

I've skied the 185 Cochise and currently own the 186 Supernatural 108, ski at Mammoth and bought it as a daily driver/crud ski. They're both good skis and ultimately I opted for the Supernatural 108 due to a great deal. The Supernatural is more fun carving on firm snow and easier to bend into smaller turns in bumps/tight trees, but edge hold isn't really any better. The Cochise is a bit more stable straightlining Rubovits and a bit easier to slide the tail out and shut down in deeper crud.

Billy Goats are my pow skis but I also think they're better than both the Supernatural and the Cochise in deeper crud, so depending on how you feel about your larger skis, the Cochise's advantage there may not matter.

The new Cochise is definitely not blah. The 192 is much higher strung and more agile than the previous 193 version.

Try a Kästle BMX 105 HP in 189. Easy to ski and a ripper in almost every snow condition beside really deep. Skis somewhere between the Cochise 193 and the Supernatural 108 in 186. More on the traditional side of the shape spectrum. I had a similar history of skis like you coming of Dictators and 193 Cochises. Settled down now on the Kästles for non hero low tide conditions. Lindahl wrote a review on the ski on Blister, exclusively for members though so I had not the chance to read it.

Metal Katanas? I know you said you don't like full rocker but their full rocker is subtle.

Billygoats?

Countdown 102 could fit your description, but is perhaps too short?
I have a brand new pair in gearswap right now!

Atomic Ritual ?
I don't see it getting much love around here, but I liked it quite a bit when I tried it. At mach looney it is not the most damp, but I think it strikes a good balance for a poppy fun carver than can charge and float.

The old 193 Cochise never had the magic of the 185. The new 192 doesn't have that problem. It is the best ski Blizzard makes right now.

gimme gimme

ever thoughts about gittin some touring skis and not skiing every day overskied crud?

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

ever thoughts about gittin some touring skis and not skiing every day crud?

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zing!

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

ever thoughts about gittin some touring skis and not skiing every day overskied crud?

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So some jerry can go out and get killed in an avalanche or turn the entire near backcountry into a skied out crud field?

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

So some jerry can go out and get killed in an avalanche or turn the entire near backcountry into a skied out crud field?

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I mean, it's the PNW. It's not like its Colorado-bad snowpack. Any jerry can ski BC in the maritime.

/s.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

I mean, it's the PNW. It's not like its Colorado-bad snowpack. Any jerry can ski BC in the maritime.

/s.

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I knew four very experienced skiers that were killed skiing bc in WA.