http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/201...soccer/505166/
Printable View
If you read the research from Dr Ann McKee, Director of the Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy Center at Boston University sub- concussive blows to the head may do as much damage as full blown concussions. The sub concussive hits are difficult to quantify as the athlete will pass the concussion tests. But research shows that football lineman that have head impacts on almost every play show abnormalities of brain antibody's after games and full contact practices. The higher the number of impacts the higher the antibody level. For the NFL / NHL this research is devastating if correct that the normal impact in these high contact sports causes significant brain injury. It also seems that the younger the more susceptible they are to the sub concussive injuries. They know that girls are more likely to suffer concussion in soccer. The theory being girls neck muscles are not as strong as boys which results in the head being jarred more. Eliminating the header for kids is a good start but I would think the head impact has an effect on adults also.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyeaster
We should just encapsulate children in inflatable bubbles so they never get hurt. Our poor little snowflakes.... :nonono2:
FWIW, Brandi Chastain has stated she will donate her brain when she dies to CTE researchers.
Yeah, so what if they wind up as vegetables. At least they'll be macho vegetables.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgb@etree
http://www.thesportster.com/football...play-football/
Soccer: just brutal
this study found TBIs to 20-24 year olds increased the risk for adverse outcomes in life more than youth injury'sQuote:
Originally Posted by bigdude2468
http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicin...l.pmed.1002103
and found an association with TBI and mental issues, premature mortality, etc.
Many states, including Tennessee, have adopted statewide concussion policies for athletes in school settings as well as private clubs, i.e. travel ball.
https://www.tn.gov/health/article/tbi-concussion
My prediction is that within the next five years, many states will mandate some type of head gear for most all sports, whether it be soccer, volleyball, basketball, etc. I am thinking something like wrestling headgear. Not that it will have much impact on concussive head injuries, but at least a feel good measure.
Not a smart comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgb@etree
50 years ago kids were playing with lead and mercury, you could buy toy soldiers made of lead.
Subsequent research showed that lead and mercury were really dangerous.
So if new facts come to light, we should change our opinion and behaviour.
Nobody is saying protect kids from risky activities, but doing something that is proven to hurt you years down the road is dumb.
I put it in the same category as smoking cigarettes.
I hope you're a parent, even in the future, the world will need ditch diggers.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgb@etree
I don't think we will need head gear for ultimate man
As someone who played striker for many years up until my early to mid 20's, I guess I'm basically fucked. Thinking of how many games I played and how many long distance goal kick headers I went up for in almost every game. A lot. Nevermind all of the times you'd get your feet taken out from under you so you'd come down on your head (definitely had a couple of concussions that way).
Show me a soccer player at any age that has a brain injury and I guarantee that did not get that injury from heading the ball. Hitting the ground, another head, an elbow, a goalpost - sure, that will leave a mark. The ball, no, especially if the players are taught proper technique.
And that's the problem with the latest round of restrictions. Players U12 or younger are prohibited from heading the ball. So at U14 they suddenly know how to do it? That makes no sense. The impact from younger kids heading the ball is much less. The ball is smaller and it is not going anywhere near as fast. That is when kids should be learning technique.
Headgear - can't think of anything more worthless. That's like taking some of the air out of the ball. The ball weighs the same and will have the same deceleration when hit with the head. If heading is causing brain injuries (big if) headgear won't fix it.
Agree that standard heading technique doesn't even hurt a little bit and is basically harmless. However, when you're going up in the air to compete for long fly ball headers with defensive players, you can't always locate it that precisely and you're bound to get your bell rung a few times - same deal for the defenders.Quote:
Originally Posted by boarddad
I also agree that letting kids suddenly start heading the ball at the same time that they can start to really kick it a long ways - and much harder - is a bad combo.
I think most states have adopted concussion protocols for student athletes. So far the helmets seem not to be able to prevent head injuries. The issue is the sub-concussive impacts that accumulate over time without any diagnosis of an actual concussion. Unfortunately a definitive diagnosis is not possible until the brain is examined after death. I know that Dr McKee who has done much research into Alzheimer's has stated that some of the NFL players brains she has examined had the appearance of elderly Alzheimer's patients. The pathologist who examined Mike Webster's brain said it looked like that of a boxer, a very old Alzheimer patient or someone who suffered a severe head wound. I would suspect that just like some old guy that smokes three packs a day and lives to 90 when he dies of kidney failure there are people that are more / less susceptible to CTE. Unfortunately a helmet while absorbing force and preventing fractures can't stop the brain from bouncing around inside the skull.Quote:
Originally Posted by TNKen
I have somewhat of a general understanding re concussion injuries. We see and deal with concussion injuries routinely on ski patrol. Helmets make little difference, hence my comment about it is a "feel good" measure.
If you want a definitive look at the long term effects of concussion injuries, look no further than Mohammed Ali f/k/a Cassius Clay.
I've got a 7yo son, and the lengths that some parents go to remove every single dangerous object from their child's world is insane. I get it, everyone loves their kid and wants them to be safe. But at what cost? It seems like it costs a lot of kids their sense of creativity, resilience and independence from what I've seen. Some of the parents of kids my sons age won't let their kids outside without hovering over them. It's crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
Anyhow, I played soccer into college and never once saw a concussion from someone heading the ball. I've seen a goalie nail his head on the goalpost diving for a save a few times, and have seen people slam heads hustling for a 50/50 ball but never once from heading the ball. Do we want our kids to bang their heads and get hurt? Of course not, but how far should we go to protect little johnnie? Should they only move around outside using a walker in the off chance they lose their balance and hit their heads?
I've been coaching my sons soccer team for the past 3 years, and frankly these kids barely move fast enough to get hurt, forget about kicking the ball so hard it would cause brain damage were it to hit someone in the head. My kid caught a solid zinger right in his face at practice last week. Didn't leave a mark or even bloody his nose, so I'm somewhat doubtful that it'll result in long term neurological problems.
If people are *that* concerned, the solution is easy: keep your kids inside and within arms reach at all times so you can unnaturally control every element of their world and do your damnedest to protect them from any and all danger.
Yep. Helmets are extremely effective for preventing skull fractures, but do little for concussions. A few years back I read something about a prototype helmet with an inflatable collar that slightly restricted bloodflow from veins in the neck thereby increasing intracranial pressure. The extra pressure supposedly helped stabilize the brain within the skull and reduced trauma. Haven't heard a peep about it since though.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdude2468
Subconcussive impacts are the crux for football, boxing, etc. Concussions are common in lots of sports, and a concussion in soccer is really no different than a concussion in football, skiing or anything else. But, a football player can experience hundreds of substantial subconcussive impacts per week between practice and games.
The next wave will be action sports athletes, though they may not make the news like NFL players do. Dave Mirra will not be an isolated case.
Post-mortem CTE screening should probably be made standard for anyone who participated in contact sports or had a history of head trauma.Quote:
Originally Posted by 54-46
So, she'd look something like this...Quote:
Originally Posted by 54-46
Attachment 191009
Freeskier did an article on CTE/concussions in freeskiing this past month. I like that this topic is coming up more... I understand the wussification comments, but I do think this is one that really needs to be taken seriously.
Soccer and Lacrosse player growing up. I wonder how much damage I may have uncured from those head to head events, lacrosse stick to the helmet blows, hard hits, etc.
You're average kick around or leisurely Sunday afternoon game with a header here or there no problem but when things get competitive then headers = head to head on occasion. My kids have drifted away from the soccer that I fostered early in their lives, and I'm OK with that, in no small part because of the head injury potential. Odds are they'll need their brain more than they need whatever experiences they would have gotten from sports. Why shouldn't a parent protect their kids from any more brain damage than is necessary?
Of course some will take it to the extreme - 'if you're protecting them from that, then you're putting them in a bubble and coddling them' Bahhhh I say, we have enough sports that will provide both competitive and recreational opportunity without the dain bramage potential.
Ok, like what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick
On the topic at hand;
Just my own unscientific observation, but I would say goalies suffer head trauma more than any other position and they almost never head the ball.
Agree that it's an important topic, especially considering most of us were raised without knowledge of such serious long term effects. But this thread is about concussions in soccer. US Soccer made a rule change this year that makes it a penalty for U11 and younger to head the ball. Doing so results in an indirect free kick for the other team. It's completely overboard, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by grskier
My kid also skis, races motocross and plays lacrosse. He wears a helmet doing that stuff, but soccer? Really people?
yeah, it's just medical science. what could they know and support with evidence about the brain that the common people can't see with their own eyes on the field.
^^^ wyeaster beat me to it. Lots of armchair tough guys posting up.
I remember taking headers as a kid (played into high school) that at times did not feel good at all. I'm generally in support of limiting them until a certain age. Not to mention the fact that kids generally just aren't very good at them until high school anyway. Insufficient neck strength to change the ball's trajectory, etc. Pre-high school they should be working on effective chest traps more than anything else.
Head Gear in soccer would be the worst thing that could be done.
Concussions are from the brain hitting the skull, not stuff hitting the head that might hurt if there is no protection, give kids head gear and I guarantee concussions go up. They will now have protection and launch themselves at each other.
Shit I say bring back leather helmets in football. Once you split your head open once you will stop spearing with it.
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/dec/30/local/me-58962Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSapp
There've been a number of female college soccer players who've retired from multiple concussions in the past years.
http://www.espn.com/espnw/news-comme...ers-becca-wann
as well as professionals
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/12/health...er-concussion/
serious, life-altering issues from successive concussions.
I wanted to quote this because it is on the money. If you look at what the removal of lead from childrens toys, paint, and gasoline has done for society, it is pretty awesome. Grandpa might have eaten lead paint and been find, but the coddled lead free generations have higher IQ and lower crime rates that robustly and significantly correlates. Also, legal access to abortion reduces crime rates (don't tell the religious right!)Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
So do concussive and sub-concussive injuries in sports cause bad outcomes for people? That is a no brainer. ;) Queue the anecdotal observations of criminality in professional athletes ;)
Like Golf, Tennis, Cross Country, Nordic Skiing, Ski Racing, Mountain Biking, Ultimate, Basketball, Swimming, Dance, Baseball, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by boarddad
i've been waiting for 30 years for the u.s. to produce a serviceable first touch with their feet. heading the ball is not close to the first problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by boarddad
The risk of concussion in kids heading the ball is a special case. As an earlier post said, it's the head recoiling from the impact due to weak neck that causes the problem. The ball hitting the head is not going to be a problem for a physically mature fit player. An argument can be made that helmets make sports more dangerous. How do Aussie rules and rugby players tackle? Not with their heads. If American football players didn't wear helmets they might have fewer head injuries since they would avoid head to head contact. It would be a much less violent game, but still football. Boxing was safer in the bare-knuckle era. You can only hit a man so hard with an unprotected hand before your bones break.
And soccer would still be soccer without heading.
My 11 year old daughter plays soccer year round and I can't remember the last time I saw anyone head the ball. A big no no in ULittles soccer is the punting of the ball by the goalie which drastically reduces any chance of heading the ball. It also increases the skill level of the players as they have to build from the back rather than punt and run. During the run of play the kids rarely get the ball up above their chests. So while banning heading may seem overly protective, the fact is, heading the ball rarely occurs in a game, as others have previously mentioned.
???Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick
It's come to this. Whee!
http://www.lensbury.com/wp-content/u.../EarthBall.jpg
At first glance the guy on the left looked like Willis.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
http://static.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/hodor-3.jpg
Seems appropriate.
https://youtu.be/FRdIXmfm6PA
I agreed with most of your post but I couldn't disagree more with this. It's a key part of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Look at the benefits
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/24/health...rnd/index.html