Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

Obviously an alias for a longtime forum member.

Is anyone here an attorney in MT and familiar with divorce, child custody issues and willing to give some advice?

We are entering couples counseling and I will be entering counseling on my own as well but there are circumstances that make me feel that the other member of this relationship has already made their mind up that divorce is a foregone conclusion and it seems to me that agreeing to go to counseling is nothing more than a capitulation on their part

I am not blameless in this I just need some advice before I head down the road I think that I'll have to.

Shoot me a PM if possible so I can nuke this thread.

[obligatory] PM Rontele [/obligatory]

Sorry, I am an attorney but not in MT and not familiar with those issues.

I believe RootSkier is a MT attorney, if he doesn't answer you can try PMing him. Seems like most attorneys know colleagues or former classmates in that line of work; sadly there's a lot of business in that area of law.

vibes, been there dun that

divorce is expensive but worth every penny

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Originally Posted by scottyb

vibes, been there dun that

divorce is expensive but worth every penny

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Amen, but mine was fairly cheap.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Amen, but mine was fairly cheap.

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Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

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Why divide nothing in half when you can let her have the whole thing?

As a non-Montana attorney who did some divorces in his career, my best advice is to be very careful of making decisions and capitulating on negotiation issues that will effect you for a long time. The divorce process literally makes people crazy and my experience was that it takes at least 6 months after it formally starts before you can look at the situation rationally. I repeatedly had intelligent, educated people sit there and tell me totally insane things that were a result of the emotional shit storm that is divorce. Even it you want it, there is a big sense of failure that clouds your thinking. Somewhere between "I don't care, just take everything" and "I won't give the bitch a dime" is where you will eventually end up, but keep in mind if you decide later that you made a mistake you have to go back to court to try and fix it. The tendency is to want to get it over with, but haste usually makes waste in the divorce process. Of course this is offset by the fairly common occurrence of the spouse who continues to argue about bullshit, because to them fighting is still better than the unknown of having the relationship formally end.

Oh yeah, and don't take legal advice from your friends that had divorces.

Whatever you do, if you find somebody else don't let the wife know about it until the divorce is final. That shit will literally make them insane. It will turn completely amicable into totally hostile in a heartbeat, I've seen it happen more than once. Beyond that I don't have much.

The rebound effect is definitely real. You are in the worst possible place to be making smart decisions about women right now.

If your partner is going to counseling with you, then she must have some hope that things will work out. Same on your end.

Good luck.

sometimes counseling totally helps-
if both can still look at it neutrally

good luck maggot

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Originally Posted by Mudfoot

The rebound effect is definitely real. You are in the worst possible place to be making smart decisions about women right now.

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this

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Originally Posted by Grape_Ape

If your partner is going to counseling with you, then she must have some hope that things will work out. Same on your end.

Good luck.

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My wife and I had a rough time about 15-20 years ago. I would not go to counseling, as I had to as a kid, when my parents divorced and I felt it was a crook. Anyways, luckily for me, my wife came across a Retrouvaille ad in her church. We did the weekend encounter, I got a lot from it, so we did the follow up classes too over the next 3 months. Their process allowed two married, but single people to reconnect. Really glad it saved my marriage, so look into it. If you have children, they will thank you for being happily married parents when they are older. http://retrouvaille.org/
O and that link looks churchy. Don't worry about that, as it is just sponsored by the Catholic Church and is not an overly religious experience.

Counseling is just a way to keep semi shrinks in BMWs and Europe trips.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

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Well, it's playing out right now. Keep her away from thinking about taking her share of pensions or 401ks. What isn't a whole lot at 45 becomes enough to live on later, if it doesn't get hit too hard. Real estate? Pffffft. Let her have the albatross.

Monkey is on the list of words not to say.

As I'm sure your kids love their mother very much, you need to make her death look like an accident.

trust your instincts.....all bets are off and you still might be able to save it.

A mediator is can be the path of least resistance; when there are assets to divide- involve two attorneys to guarantee bad blood and assets split 4 ways!

You need to get serious about protecting your own interests. You're gut is telling you something, listen to it.

Vibes.....P-Dawg is also in this Shit Storm right now......Cant offer any advice as its day to day here too.

The List: http://forum.mensdivorce.com/viewtopic.php?t=13374

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Originally Posted by Parvo

As I'm sure your kids love their mother very much, you need to make her death look like an accident.

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Quoted for top post of the day. I lol'd a lil' bit

Sad to say, I've been through the storm as well. Fortunately no children, mostly grad school debt. Not a ton of assets to divide, and made it out relatively unscathed. I'm back to living with a woman who wants to get married, and I'm still far from being mentally capable of going through that shit again. Good luck dude. Definitely tough times.

Speaking of splitting debt in a divorce, keep in mind that creditors don't care. If it is a joint debt and your wife agrees to take responsibility for it in the divorce and does not pay, the creditor comes after you. The divorce decree means nothing to them. If she gets the house and the mortgage, make sure your name is removed from the promissory note.

Get the best attorney you can afford. Don't skimp. It ends up costing you in the long run.

^^^^Which means she needs to refinance. I hope she qualifies on her income alone or it isn't happening. Any joint debt needs to be closed and individually taken responsibility for or eventually your credit gets fucked up by the dead beat ex.

Which is why I say, give her the house, free and clear.

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Originally Posted by Parvo

As I'm sure your kids love their mother very much, you need to make her death look like an accident.

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How do you do that and explain the offshore bank account too?

OP: where in Montana are you ? I know a very good divorce attorney in Missoula if you are over there.

My lawyer friends say the best outcome (for the attorneys) is a female attorney for the guy and a male attorney for the woman. Your female attorney and your ex will be catty and be totally mean bitches the way females can be toward other females. Meanwhile you will see her male attorney roll up in a banger Porsche 911 sporting a massive gold Rolex with your ex riding in the passenger seat of the Porsche and your blood pressure will go through the roof.
Total win-win for the two attorneys, both sides go insane and huge legal fees paid by both sides.

1. find the female attorney in your town that all the divorced women (you can find them getting in and out of their porsches at the starbucks) swear by, and do not let your wife hire her.

2. if you have kids, spoil the shit out of them privately, but do not out of guilt ir anything else agree to one penny more than the law says you have to supply in support. My wife takes what i refer to as my divorce guilt money and spends it on herself, and I still put the kids through camp, had to pay for their sports equipment (skis and other inexpensive stuff like $200 lacrosse sticks, club teams, cell phones, etc....). I would have WAY more cash if i had not agreed to spend about 3.5 times what i should have. Dumb dumb move.

3. Benny is right, giver assets of value but nothing that supplies revenue regularly. I gave her the house and kept my business.

4. Get her to waive alimony. ex-wives make shitty employees. pay for this if you need to.

edit: get her to agree to pay for half of college. my ex pays 1/3 of a state education which is about 8k a year. our kids schools cost 46 and 53 respectively. good times.


edit. edit: counseling huh? i was a punching bag in there. much much happier now. good luck. dont postpone the inevitable if you can make your life better, it's short, you get one.

If you are in Missoula, PM me. Best family law attorney around is just down the hall. She's a woman, FWIW.

No alias needed anymore. She was/is having an affair and wouldn't have told me except that I overheard a phone conversation of hers with her mother. She was also having an emotional affair with a mutual friend for the last 3 years. Everyday is better than the last and although I'm glad to be rid of her it was a rough couple of months. The divorce should be final as of last week as long as her lawyer sends in the paperwork.

Also, if any other mags are going through the same thing and need someone to talk to shoot me a PM. It's a rough thing to go through but it's amazing what time can heal and many people go through the same thing.

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

Maybe try for another child?

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The thing is she was trying to get pregnant while she maintains that she hated me. After talking to some other people doing this is more common that you'd think.

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Originally Posted by Mudfoot

The rebound effect is definitely real. You are in the worst possible place to be making smart decisions about women right now.

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It's funny I talk to my counselor about the fact that I would date someone I dislike just because. All the while I'm totally aware that I don't like them and why I'm doing it.

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Originally Posted by Grape_Ape

If your partner is going to counseling with you, then she must have some hope that things will work out. Same on your end.

Good luck.

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Nope. She wanted to go to couples counseling so we could effectively coparent. I now go on my own. I can work on my own issues without her and it's abundantly clear that she isn't willing to accept any responsibility or work on her issues. She continues her relationship with her affair and he's in the middle of a divorce too. Sounds like the beginnings of a healthy relationship.

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Originally Posted by Parvo

As I'm sure your kids love their mother very much, you need to make her death look like an accident.

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Thanks for the levity during a difficult time. I laughed about this often since she turned into a delusional narcissist.

Good luck mang, never had any idea it was you but sounds like you landed in a decent place.

Wow that was fast. Do some states make you wait in a separation situation before making it final?

CJ - Glad to heat things are (sort of) better.....vibes man.


P-dawg who started down this path back in Sep too - has a court date of Feb 1, - 90 day cooling off period here. We will be pushing off for 45-60 days - as she still need to get me off the deed and re-fi etc...we both have been doing counseling, together, me, her the kids......uuggh its been a rough rough fall.

Neither one seem ready to be teh one to say I give up - not sure - I think neither one wants to be the one who actually turns the missle key....so we keep slogging on. But much better (relatively) than the first 2-3 months I was out of the house - 2-3 hours angry calls a day - every day...such fond memories.....:frown:

-P

Edit - for those using TGR as a research tool - We are going through a mediator (although since there was so much anger - Mediator almost walked away and ended up politely "suggested" if we didnt seek counseling she was done representing us - again good times. Wife and I had framed out much of what we wanted, so using the mediator mainly as an interface with the court process. We agreed to not go after each other retirement money too.

Vibes to youz guyz. As your life moves on, just try and be there for the kids. After my parents divorced I rarely saw / heard from my dad. Don't be that guy. At 56, I still have confusing emotions regarding my dad. It is hard to get the little boy in you to be quiet.

Also, I have never met a marriage that survived counseling, but I know of many that flourished with the Retrouvaille program. The choice is yours.

Thx L2Ski....as I head off to google "Retrouvaille"

No - I am not that dad - My little guy (age 8) is my best buddy in the world. Sorry to hear about your relationship - that sucks man - myself and my dad have been estranged for 25+ years so I understand..

1. Push hard for using a mediator, arbitration, anything to avoid going to court.

1a - Remove your emotions from the process. Meditate, do yoga, whatever you need to. Unless there are kids, this is a business transaction. Treat it as such.

2. Do not have sex with anyone she / he knows.

3. Do not let them find out you are happy, especially if it's in a new relationship.

4. Try to be nice, swallow that hate. Say you are sorry, love them, whatever, even if you mean the opposite.

Hang in thar guys, it gets better eventually.

My parents are going through it now actually. Theyre 60, I'm an adult. Hitting my mom much different than my dad- I don't think she wants it. Hes totally closed off so I really only get one side of the story. My mom absolutely hates his lawyer with the fire of 1000 suns too, I think she told the lawyer off in court and the judge got pissed.