Cheating in Chamonix 2015

I'm still no Chamonix expert, but this is my favorite town on the planet. As soon as I show up, I'm already thinking about how much I cant wait for the next trip. Is that weird?

I'm not sure if this really belongs in the climbing forum, but we did ski basically every day... anyway, on with it then...

Chamonix is cheating. Plain and simple. French pastries in the morning, a lift to the alpine, a downhill ski to your climbing objective and then a downhill ski to one of 1) another lift, 2) a train, 3) your car or 4) town. You can do in one week in Chamonix what would take you a month or more anywhere else. It's an alpine climbers Disney Land with very serious consequences (good and bad). My last two trips have been plagued by poor weather with limestone sport climbing and fine Italian food as consolation prizes. This year, we somehow managed to nail the slowly expanding good weather window AND motivated partnerships. Other than a nagging cold, it was game on.

Day 1 had us skiing on the Grands Montets in bad weather. I know this is a skiing forum, but It pretty much looked like this:


Day 2 was our first day of splitter weather. We went in search of a mixed line called Farraon (II, 4+, 5c, 400m) on the Grands Montets Ridge. About 8 of us showed up at the base at the same time and as the entire ridge started shedding, we all decided to bail. Two of us decided to save the day and link up the ridge route back up to Grands Montets lift with the ridge route on the Petit Vert. A nice, mellow, safe, acclimatization day.

Leaving the Grands Montets lift
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-z...o/IMG_1377.JPG

Skiing to the base of the route
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a...o/IMG_1414.JPG

Our route is kind of in the left middle of the rocky/snowy ribs in the middle ground.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b...o/IMG_1448.JPG

Consolation Prize
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2...o/IMG_1477.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-d...o/IMG_1485.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-B...o/IMG_1527.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...o/IMG_1536.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-s...o/IMG_1576.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-G...o/IMG_1585.JPG

Day 3: After our adventure the previous day, we decided it would be best to try a rock route in the sun. Central Dihedral on Aig. Argentiere was the order of the day. 6a, 7 pitches. Same story: Lift up, ski down, skin to base, climb, rap off, ski down...profit?

The view from the top of Grands Montets does not get old. Aig. Midi and Mt Blanc:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C...o/IMG_1600.JPG

Our route is on the rock buttress slightly below mid way up the peak on the right hand ridge, basically right above the skier:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--...o/IMG_1602.JPG

The Argentiere Basin is a grand place to be:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C...o/IMG_1608.JPG

Many El Cap size (1000m) ice and mixed lines in this basin:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0...o/IMG_1673.JPG

Cranking through pitch 1
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-V...o/IMG_1703.JPG

pitch 2 (crux)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-s...o/IMG_1791.JPG

pitch 3
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-q...o/IMG_1713.JPG

pitch 4
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-g...o/IMG_1843.JPG

pitch 6
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f...o/IMG_5038.JPG

pitch 7
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F...o/IMG_1848.JPG


Our route was the large sweeping dihedral in the middle of the face, directly above the tiny red guy:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--...o/IMG_1916.JPG

the views are still good:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8...o/IMG_1922.JPG

Up Next - Routes off the Midi!

Day 4 I was really hurting. Terrible soar throat, woke up in a pool of sweat, congested to the point where it was periodically hard to breath...But by 7am I was feeling like half of a normal human so I decided to give valeria gully a shot. We managed to get there behind two other parties after catching a relatively late lift up the Midi (about 9:30am, I think).

Popping up at the top of the Midi makes an impression:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-o...o/IMG_2006.JPG

Valeria Gully (II, 4) is the line that goes to the low notch in the middle of the photo and then turns right and ends up behind the petit capuchin:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c...o/IMG_2063.JPG

Skinning to the base of the route with the Aig. Verte (left) and Dent de Giant (right) behind.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M...o/IMG_2084.JPG

Pitch 1:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7...o/IMG_2121.JPG

Pitch 2:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-T...o/IMG_2193.JPG

Pitch 3:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X...o/DSC00630.JPG

Pitch 3 looking down:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u...o/IMG_2215.JPG

Easier ground and then the last two mixed pitches to the notch behind the petit capuchin. We skipped this and rapped from here in the interest of making it back to the cosmiques hut before weather and/or darkness caught us out. As it turned out, this was perfect as we arrived at the hut just in time to enjoy an amazing dinner of soup, stuffed tomatoes, polenta, turkey and dessert. Not your typical north american alpine cuisine...
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i...o/IMG_2217.JPG

Skinning back to the cosmiques hut (Left):
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l...o/IMG_2282.JPG

One of the great walls of the Alps, the north face of the Grandes Jorasses showing its top on the left:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-q...o/IMG_5104.JPG

the sunset did not disappoint:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6...o/IMG_2334.JPG

I can't say how awesome the hut system is. It really reinforces the cheating aspect of chamonix climbing. You show up with daypacks after a full day of alpine climbing and you put all your stuff on drying racks. You check in and sign up for dinner and breakfast and then walk upstairs to move into your bunk with a mattress, wool blanket and pillow. Did I mention it's heated with running water? Did I mention we were served a 3 course french dinner? Did I mention you now are in a position to get on any route you want before everyone else comes up the lift in the morning? Wow. Cheating.

Day 5 dawned bright and clear. I was up all night fighting my cold so friends went off for a lap on the cosmiques ridge. It's one of the best alpine climbs anywhere and if it was about 4x longer, would be an ultra classic. Realistically, it's ultra crowded, but when you get a 6am start, you get the whole thing to yourself. The ski down was a nice exercise in survival skiing until we got low down on the vallee blanche where things corned up nicely.

Sunrise on the cosmiques arete and Aig. Midi:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-H...o/IMG_2339.JPG

Soaking in the awesomeness:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-W...o/IMG_3498.JPG

The Tacul from the hut. If you know what you're looking for you can see the chere couloir in fat conditions and staring right at you is the contamine route. Two deaths on that face right before we showed up reminded us all this place will take your life in the blink of an eye even on easier routes. Keep your head together and come with the right skills and experience and you'll have a great time. Get suckered into something above your head and you might go home in a box.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Q...o/IMG_2365.JPG

By about 10:30 we were all regrouped and I seemed to have enough life to enjoy a ski down the Vallee Blanche.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--...o/IMG_2454.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-I...o/IMG_2512.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...o/IMG_2547.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F...o/IMG_2569.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7...o/IMG_2575.JPG

Up next, another bonus day of good weather, first bin, a charge up The Lafaille Gully and a race back down the Vallee Blanche for the last train back to town.

Day 6: The quintessential Chamonix day. Up at 6:45. French pastries and cappuccino for breakfast. First bin up to the top of the Midi. Downhill ski to the objective, small amount of skinning, 5 pitches of great ice and mixed climbing, downhill ski to the last train from Montenvers back into Chamonix. Lamb and red wine. Cheating and getting away with it.

Today's adventure goes by the name of Lafaille Gully (II, 4). After a most interesting bergschrund buy-in pitch it's 4 more pitches of awesome ice and mixed followed by a bunch of wallowing. Most people rap after the technical pitches...We followed suit.

The route is basically dead center. The steep ice is in the shade:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-m...o/IMG_2592.JPG

The awesomeness of Supercouloir (IV, 6, 800m) is unmistakable.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-z...o/IMG_2599.JPG

The Lafaille follows the narrow patch of ice just ahead!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H...o/IMG_5209.JPG

Looking down from midway up pitch 2:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Y...o/IMG_2640.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j...o/IMG_2644.JPG

Following pitch 2:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t...o/IMG_2735.JPG

Look up pitch 3
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v...o/IMG_2649.JPG

Looking down from midway up pitch 4:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_...o/IMG_2749.JPG

Looking down from top of pitch 4:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-O...o/IMG_2750.JPG

Looking up pitch 5:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-R...o/IMG_2769.JPG

One seriously happy (non)camper with a stunning supercouloir in the background:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-z...o/IMG_5238.jpg

I can't wait to go back!!!

I skied many times in chamonix, but never climbed.

How does the climbing compare with the east side of sierra?

Btw, great work.

Nice!!!!!

Badass TR, bravo!

FKNA killer TR thanks

Thanks all!

The granite is very similar to the eastern sierra wrt climbing. I'm saying this as a climber. I'm sure a geologist could write volumes on the differences. However, while the physical climbing and climbing surface may be quite similar, in the Alps, you do this while looking across vast glaciers to big amazing icy peaks (and about 200 other people...but you can find solitude if you're willing to work for it).

The high sierra is amazing. I love it for the great rock and great skiing. It is also a vast mountain range where you can find crowds on the popular routes or solitude if you're willing to work for it. One of the best parts...The weather is just so reliable. That comes at a price. The sierra just doesn't have the huge glaciers. It also doesn't have french pastry shops on every corner...although I do love Schatts.

The ice and mixed climbing is so far beyond what's available in the sierra, they cant really be compared.

I'm impressed. Although, would be nice if your photo's were larger.

Great stuff J. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by 406

I'm impressed. Although, would be nice if your photo's were larger.

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Hey, I PM'd you the link to my web album for larger photos. I wasn't sure if people would want the larger photos or not. I originally posted this on another board that had a height restriction of 800 pixels. It was easiest to just copy/paste here, but I think I agree that in this case, bigger is better.

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Originally Posted by LightRanger

Great stuff J. Thanks.

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Thanks bud. Good, good fun.

Cheating. Well Played. Thanks for sharing!!!

Gawddamn. That is cheating. Nice work.

Wow! Based on your earlier emails I knew this was a good trip, but you nailed it. Now I really wish I could have joined!!! Ugh.

Rad stuff man! I don't mind the small pics because otherwise it takes them too long to load on my clunky satellite internet.

Yeah enginerd! Badass shit. Love the skiing to get to what you really came to do.

Skiing death steeps there doesn't really have a big appeal to me, but I would definitely be happy to use all the altitude cheating to do some mountain biking around there. #bucketlist

FKNA, this thread gives me serious wood. Skiing, rock, ice, mixed alpine, pastry, it has it all. I want to go back with a good knee do even a tenth of what you did.

I am off to Temple Crag for a spring ascent in two weeks. If I squint real hard I can imagine Big Pine is Chamonix.

Very nice!

Love this photo

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Originally Posted by enginerd

pitch 6
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f...o/IMG_5038.JPG

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Engineerd Cheating >>>>>>>>>> Tiger Cheating

quality
deserves to be top o page 1 of the ski forum instead of dying here in this dungfree fail

Great stuff, thanks.

amazing TR. get this into the main forum.

Man, sometimes I forget how many ballers are on this site. Good shit man. That's awesome.

very nice. awesome....although im only a lowly sportscimber /boulderer this looks reeally cool.

Bumping 'coz I love this place and I love this thread!

Cheers,
Thom

Very nice TR

Hey enginerd - rad TR. I was in Cham in 2010 for a climbing trip and decided to bring my normal ice boots and Silvretta 404s. What a disaster. Ski 50 feet, fall, binding explodes, reassemble binding, ski 50 feet, fall.... etc. 4 hrs to approach the base of supercouloir.... should have taken 20 minutes. We were too tired to even think about climbing and bailed after the first pitch. I swore I'd never go back without dynafits. Your trip looked like the trip we dreamt of. Although we did manage a couple good lines - gabarrou-albinoni, modica-noury, frendo-ravenel, cosmic arete. And my partner did the ginat after I flew home. But I digress...

Can you comment on some gear? How did the Spectres worked out for you as a combined skiing and climbing boot? What crampon? How was the crampon-boot fit? What ski and binding combo? Were you happy with it? Thanks dude!

Some Flying-To-Chamonix Lessons Learned:

1) Rent skis when you get there. They have everything you could ever want. Getting my skis there and back in 2014 cost me $240 in baggage fees and a HUGE headache. Never again. Ski rental is on the order of euro30/day or euro180/week. They have all the new skis and all the new bindings for rent. It's like being a kid in a candy store and you can switch out your skis to suit your intended route. short skinny skis if they're going to spend a long time on your back, big manly planks for the steep or deep descents.

2) Take your ski boots and climbing boots. This is personal and obviously only applies if you like your boots. Again, tons of rental options so if you're looking for a new pair of kicks, you can survey the market a bit. I spent a lot of time and money with multiple bootfitters and the Spectre climbs incredibly well (I could write a novel here...I dont fully endorse them but for this trip they were PERFECT...lots of other options here including the TLT6). I used the Grivel G20 and G22 crampon and got a wonderful fit. If something is just too techy for your AT boots, it's common to throw your climbing boots in your pack and leave your ski boots with your skis at the bottom of the route. Obviously, descent logistics play a role in making this work, but usually if you can carry your skis up your route with you, you can wear your ski boots for the climb. Pretty much everyone rocks dynafit or it's imitations. Why wouldn't you?

3) Bring sunny/warm rock climbing kit and alpine climbing kit. Bring decent ski pants/jacket if the lifts are spinning. Basically, if the weather's good, you're going alpine climbing. If the weather's bad, you're going resort skiing or driving to Italy or Southern France and going sport climbing. So, I find that I dont really need the foul weather alpine climbing stuff because if weather is bad I'm doing something else (ie when in the alpine I'm just in softshells with a puffy in the pack). The alpine climbing kit is usually a little overkill for sunny sport climbing. The ultralightweight alpine shell jacket and pants are just downright silly at the ski resort.

Gotta run. I have some more thoughts on tents/ropes/tools/rack/stove/etc. when I return...

Regarding the ski-rental situation: is it relatively easy to rent both touring skis with tech binders and downhill skis with alpine binders? I assume the skis are all mounted with demo bindings?

All this kind of info is really appreciated.

^^^Yes, you can rent whatever you want including crampons, ropes etc.

http://www.technique-extreme.com/ on the budget end

http://www.cham3s.com/ Snell Sports for the best ski store I've ever been in (price excepted)

Just as a counterpoint - I took over skis when I went and didn't pay anything at all in baggage fees. Almost every international airline includes a ski bag at no additional charge. NYC to Geneva and back. No issues at all.

Interesting. I flew San Francisco to Geneva British Air and returned on Air France. Maybe it was because I was using miles? It cost me $100US to get skis on the plane in San Francisco and euro100 to get skis back.

4) double length runner with locker for belays. Lot's of routes have double bolted belays with chains. I found a really light weight system for quick belays to be girth hitch a chain on one bolt, locker on the other, figure eight to make your power point. Light, fast (lots of reasons why this isn't a good idea, dont blame me if you die).

5) knotted rope tether (kinda like a daisy chain). This might be personal preference but this system is great for when you have to do multiple raps and time is of the essence (ie you need to make the train). Figure eight a piece of old rope to your harness, tie a butterfly about 10" from your harness and tie an overhand or figure eight on a bite at the end another foot or so beyond that (size the total length such that you can hang in your harness from the end and still reach a locker clipped into the end). Rap device on the butterfly, extra locker stays at the end and use it to clip into the rap station when you get there. You will see most people using this system. Lots of variations of this sold in climbing shops in town if you cant be bothered to tie three knots in an old rope. Use rope, not slings. It's easy to tie your backup rappel knot with this system also. Also, when you're skiing around, clip the locker at the end of your tether up high on your backpack shoulder strap. If it's on your harness and you fall in a crevass, PGHM helicopter has a harder time. If it's up by your shoulder, you'll be out of there in a jiffy (yeah, make sure you and your buddies are proficient at crevasse rescue...and then call PGHM, they're faster). Oh, and on that note, lots of people using rope grabbing pullies (eg petzl mini traxion and micro traxion) for part of their crevasse rescue systems.

6) Light is right...But In Cham, the balance can be skewed a bit more to durability and useability over absolutely as light as possible. When you're taking a lift up, skiing down to your objective, rapping off and then skiing down to the train, the trade is different. You want to be fast AND light. Sometimes a few grams here or there can make you significantly faster or safer. Of course, there is also a lot you dont need to take with you so if you're doing it right, you're still very light...and then there's the overweight baggage fees...Go light.

I'm realizing all these points could be fiercely debated...I'll come back when the shouting quiets down :-)

7) Ropes. 60m doubles. What else? You have to be able to do full length raps. Yes a skinny single 60 and a tag line is lighter but I definitely do not think it's faster over all for this application.

8) Tent. Stove. Pad. This is a tough one. If you plan on a route requiring a bivy, you know what you need. You can get a lot done from the lift or using the hut system which is awesome. For euro30 - 60/night you get a bed w/ mattress and blankets, breakfast and dinner and a lighter pack. I've never used a tent, stove or pad in the alps (because I'm not trying hard enough, obviously) but I did bring just a bivy, bag and foam mat a couple years ago and ended up using it to camp for 4 days while sport climbing in southern France. Lame. I really wanted a tent and comfy pad. Dont know what to say other than when you want them, you want them, but I typically haven't used them...I'll probably keep bringing them since I really do want to use them...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by enginerd

Interesting. I flew San Francisco to Geneva British Air and returned on Air France. Maybe it was because I was using miles? It cost me $100US to get skis on the plane in San Francisco and euro100 to get skis back.

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Could be the miles? I'm not sure though. I flew United and on the way back I was on Lufthansa (Star Alliance codeshare). I bought a couple pieces of gear while I was there in Cham on end of season closeout deals. So on my Eur-USA flight I had packed my ice tools, spare clothing, etc in my ski bag. Both my ski bag and my geear duffle were overweight but I sweet talked the gate agent into looking the other way. She was maybe 27 and gorgeous. I was haggard from 3 weeks of alpine climbing on a dirtbag budget. Lost nearly 11 lbs in those 3 weeks.

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4) double length runner with locker for belays. Lot's of routes have double bolted belays with chains. I found a really light weight system for quick belays to be girth hitch a chain on one bolt, locker on the other, figure eight to make your power point. Light, fast (lots of reasons why this isn't a good idea, dont blame me if you die).

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This is one of my favorite ways to rig a 2-bolt anchor. Interestingly, I can't recall clipping a single bolt in the alpine at all. All protection was cams/nuts/screws, all anchors were the typical Cham rats nest of old pins and slung flakes.

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5) knotted rope tether (kinda like a daisy chain). This might be personal preference but this system is great for when you have to do multiple raps and time is of the essence (ie you need to make the train). Figure eight a piece of old rope to your harness, tie a butterfly about 10" from your harness and tie an overhand or figure eight on a bite at the end another foot or so beyond that (size the total length such that you can hang in your harness from the end and still reach a locker clipped into the end). Rap device on the butterfly, extra locker stays at the end and use it to clip into the rap station when you get there. You will see most people using this system. Lots of variations of this sold in climbing shops in town if you cant be bothered to tie three knots in an old rope. Use rope, not slings. It's easy to tie your backup rappel knot with this system also. Also, when you're skiing around, clip the locker at the end of your tether up high on your backpack shoulder strap. If it's on your harness and you fall in a crevass, PGHM helicopter has a harder time. If it's up by your shoulder, you'll be out of there in a jiffy (yeah, make sure you and your buddies are proficient at crevasse rescue...and then call PGHM, they're faster). Oh, and on that note, lots of people using rope grabbing pullies (eg petzl mini traxion and micro traxion) for part of their crevasse rescue systems.

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I do the same thing, except tie it with a double-length runner passed through my harness and tied with an overhand knot. I tie it with the ends slightly offset so that one leg is longer than the other. Although I absolutely agree the rope offer dynamic protection, more cut-resistant, etc.

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6) Light is right...But In Cham, the balance can be skewed a bit more to durability and useability over absolutely as light as possible. When you're taking a lift up, skiing down to your objective, rapping off and then skiing down to the train, the trade is different. You want to be fast AND light. Sometimes a few grams here or there can make you significantly faster or safer. Of course, there is also a lot you dont need to take with you so if you're doing it right, you're still very light...and then there's the overweight baggage fees...Go light.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't climb with the tiniest ultralight carabiners or ultralight cams or aluminum-tubed ice screws - all of it is too fiddly or too prone to failure. A few extra grams can go a very long way, as you correctly note. I can't comment on the skiing aspect of it other than to say my choice in bringing Silvrettas and climbing boots was absolutely the wrong choice and an absolute disaster.

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I'm realizing all these points could be fiercely debated...I'll come back when the shouting quiets down :-)

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No shouting here. This isn't mountainproject :)

I should really do a TR...

Please do. Good beta in here so far.