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Well for the third straight year, it looks like I am going to lose a big toe nail. I thought the new custom liners would prevent this shit, but I guess not. I thought maybe I was bruising my toenail because I was not trimming them properly, but I kept the nail well trimmed all season.
So how in the hell can you prevent this shit?
Get the nails permanently removed.
A bunch of friends and I have discussed this, but none yet have had the courage to actually do it.
Why do we need nails on our big toes anyhow?
As Huckwheat said, get them permanently removed. I keep getting black toe, and then the toenail would come back ingrown. I finally had enough and had the right big toenail permanently removed. Looks a little funky, and it is painful for a month or so, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
Sweet! You are bad ass......Quote:
Originally Posted by Szyslak
Get a boot with a bigger toe box. Then your big toe won't be compressed by the roof of the toe box. Solved my problems.
You'll regret it when you have to claw your way out of a pine box with only your left big toe. Happened to a friend of mine, I swear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckwheat
I am going to go with probabilities. The odd of the pine box thing (maybe 1/500,000).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromond
The odds of doing the below "home surgery" one a year.....about 1/10.
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergall...etes%20toe.JPG
Cant take credit for the toe.....it is my buddies.
I figured I'd post this question in new thread, but w/ search function even the most obscure and disgusting shit pops right up. Sweet.
My contribution here is this: a way to thwart black toe once you have gotten it. This is only a theory right now, but one based on some sketchy half remembered endorsement of the act from a ski buddy in the past, though I can't remember who.
Basically, you bang your toe whether in your boots, or, ahem, taking a mild digger off you bike when the front wheel of your bike gets stuck in the light rail track while crossing a street in downtown denver and the impact of toe in hard leather shoes does the same trick. Not that that would happen to a skilled cyclist such as myself.
I recalled a friend saying that within the first few hours of doing this you need to heat a pin or paperclip on the stove or in a candle, and then stick the hot end through the top of your big toenail, forming a hole that releases the swelling, pressure and build up of blood and related fluids from under you toenail. This in turn is capable of saving your toenail from falling off. So I did this last night and it was awesomely gross. Pin went through toenail, didn't hurt at all, and immediately an aggressive stream of blood/fluid came out. This did not stop for about 45 minutes, and then I bandaged it up and went to bed and it continuned to ooze throughout the night. All the "black" of the black toe is gone and the toe feels much better than it did prior to alleveiating pressure. Whether this indeed saves the toenail in the long run or is just the equivalent of a messy biology expermiment remains to be seen, I'm sure you will all be waiting w/ baited breath. This TR should have had pics included, sorry.
Girlski did that in Lenas, and lph got the vid. Sadly, the link isn't valid anymore. But it was superextremognar.Quote:
Originally Posted by pde20
bump, cuz now I'm a member of the club.
I think I'm going to do the heated needle through the nail trick, soon as I find something sharp around here.
My question is this: This is happening to both my big toes. Brand new boots, 4th day on them, went from 29 to 27.5 shell. Footbed and hotform. Boots are tight, but feel fine all the way around the foot and calve except the toe bang.
Do I need more room in the toe box or actually less room so the toe doesn't move? What have you guys done to remidty this? Grind out the toe box, trim the footbed? Boots are tight as fuck, and my feet get pretty cold so I'm thinking that more room is in order, but my bootfitter said "I've never heard of anyone losing a toe nail because the boot was too small, it means the boot is not tight enough" <-- BS?!
I'm going back to the bootfitter, just curious what you guys ended up doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaramieSkiBum
I haven't had toenails for a few seasons for multiple reasons- boots were too tight, huck nail, riding backseat, toebox was too small, footbed was curled into my toebox. Bootfitting is the first culprit as would be your stance. Are your shins in contact with the front of your boot at all times. Also, try tightening the second lowest buckle on your boot cuff- this can keep your foot from slipping forward into your toe box and putting pressure at the front of your foot.
And if you are puncturing the toenail, get the needle hot as shit and jab till you draw fluid. Repeat until you start pushing out air bubbles. Ideally you want blood (as in the blood clotting under your toenail NOT the blood that you draw because you pushed all the way through the nail and into your toe bed), but the clear/orange-ish fluid is bueno aswell because that lends to the pressure that you feel under your toenails. Make sure that there are like 6 dudes all aorund, drinking beer and egging you on...oh and a video camera helps too.
I've just drained a puffy toe myself. I popped the pus bag with a needle not through the top of the nail but under it from the front in a couple different places.
Man was it ever a relief. It doesn't look nearly as gnarly anymore though.. untill the nail comes off :D
I used to lose nails every year. Then I bought a 1/2 size bigger, which was an increase in the boot sole length only, same fit otherwise. No more black nail for the past 4 years. Having boots that fit tight (making it impossible to shift forward in the boot when getting O.C. in the backseat) and buying some booster straps (for a better fit) probably helped, too.
One year I got a bad throbbing black nail and someone told me to do the paperclip trick. So I tried it thinking that you could do it anywhere on the nail to relieve pressure. I picked the healthy part of the nail, not the black part. When I burnt through the nail it seared my healthy skin and it hurt so frickin' bad. Of course this did nothing to relieve the pressure of the blackened part.
Then I figured out how dumb I can really be, and re-did the black part. Ouch.
As counter intuitive as it seems the most common cure is to get a smaller boot. Really depends on the cause and many suggestions are made here but someone mentioned a tight enough boot to hold you in place and most often this is what is lacking resulting in black toe.
you might also try some heel padding or cup, to help lock the heel down and keep your foot from sliding forward.
If you're not using custom footbeds, they might also help.
I recommend using a torch to heat the paper clip.. you want it really hot and melt a hole in your toe nail... you want to use very little pressure.. too much and when you break through the hot paper clip sill go into the area under your toe nail and that hurts..
Also after this is done I usually will soak the toe in hydrogen peroxide,.... it only 'hurts' for a sec..
I hate that moment when you push through the nail bed...
Use a very small drill bit. Roll it with your fingers, and it will gradually dig through the nail, until pay dirt. Just did it today on two nails. Much less scary than the needle idea.
you guys are FUCKING crazy!
drill bits? Heated needles through the nail? Sweet jebus.
Just take a regular needle, sterilize it, and slide it right under the nail from the front of the toe back into the pool of blood underneath. Remove needle, push on nail from back, and drain.
Rarely hurts if you keep the needle up on the underside of the nail, doesn't leave a hole, etc, etc.
Just did it yesterday, toe is a little tender still but it saved me from another lost nail I believe. Which is good, because the big toe on the other foot is downright nasty. Ingrown like a mofo after falling off the last time I forgot to drain the main vein.
I have done all of this. Many home/field surgeries. Nothing makes the fire crew think you're hard core like when you have a box of single edged razor blades and you're sterilizing shit with listerine and going at it in the tent. good times....
I had a point...... Oh yeah, so I got the permanent removal surgery on one foot last year. This year so far, removed foot = golden, other foot = same old shit. I will probably do the other foot next spring/fall.
that is all.
Heh - just yesterday some of my friends were joking about how you explain 'ski toe' problems to horrified manicurists.
I usually have to get one or two fake toenails added for sandal season.
You mean you forgot to piss? Do you piss on your toe usually? That's kinda gross isn't it? I'll take the red hot paper clip, it's worked for me before. The drill bits, the pins they all pale to the sweet relief of that searing paper clip hitting pay dirt. If it's really throbbing sure there's a bit of spray but what else feels good when it throbs just before it releases? Peeing on my toe just ain't on. You went to the Ashley MacIssac school of toe releif, didn't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
You had your foot removed??? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiMan
:wink:
The situation with my toe was kind of half way between the constant problems/pain and having the whole thing removed. I jammed my left big toe in my boot after launching a booter and landing in the flat. The toe nail came off a few weeks later and ingrew on both sides. The more it grew out, the more it hurt. Finally went to the doc who did a little minor surgery and pulled out the root at the base of the nail on each side. Now my toenail is about 2/3 as wide as it used to be. As long as I keep the tip trimmed, no problems at all. And it only looks a little funny.
The reason you get black toe is getting in the back seat from either making a lousy turn, I used to get it from just training gates and having one turn that you have to get on your tails and peel one off, or landing your airs back. The toe nail gets bruised from hitting the roof of the boot from the examples given above...and for those of you who get it you could probably say the air or the turn when you know you got way back and your started to hurt...the solution we came up with was padding the top of the liner across the toes but not across the big toe, this will give you a cushion of room between the daddy toe and the roof of the boot...you can even go as far as to sculpt a cavern in the shell above just the big toe...Lange used to send these squares of memory foam with each boot that work awesome...any oldtime lange dealer will have these kicking around, and if they are a lange dealer they will be familiar with black toe....just my 2cents.
I'm retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nohillsnearby
call me fucking crazy (maybe retarded fits better) but once the black toe developes i've always been a fan of just skiing harder so it gets more beat up and falls off quicker. no more nail no problem. Also, this is one of the few things smoking pot actually helps with skiing wise.
Two weeks ago, I hucked a few cliffs on Vail's frontside and at the end of the day, big toenail was all black. I think it was from landing too far back from 20' or so. Iced it, didn't help. It hurt for the next three days. Then I decided to try the hot-needle trick.
So I put together:
-rubbing alcohol
-safety pin
-visegrips
-lighter
I cleaned the toe, then used the lighter to heat the pin red hot while holding it with the pliers. Took a deep breath, took left foot in right hand, bent it up in front of me, and with left hand pushed a red-hot needle through the center of the toenail. Eh, this isn't going to workHOLYSHIT and with a "pssst" a jet of blood and pus shoots two feet out of my toenail. :eek:
Got it cleaned up, and thought the nail was OK. Felt a lot better.
Yesterday, my toenail fell off in the shower. Oh well. If it grows back ingrown I may go to the doc to take care of it.
put a hole in mine, didn't fall off, and doesn't hurt anymore. Even in my boot. Maybe I'll ski a few more weeks before I get the toe box ground out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L7
what L7 said plus maybe you're in too stiff a boot which will tend to put you back.
I would make sure your boots are tight enough, and make sure to ski them at full tightness even if you're just taking a wussy run.
Not tightening my boots all the way thinking I was just going to cruise around was the main way I got black toe.:FIREdevil
Climbing trees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckwheat
That time of the year already. :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2:
Left big toenail has been black for close to two months and finally decided to clean out some of the black stuff underneath the nail. Top half of the nail is flappy, but I'm hoping cuticle cream will help restore some strength.
Had to do this for the first time this past week.
Cause was foot moving around in boot b/c I went with plug liners in a non-plug boot.
Used a 2 mm drill bit (disinfect with Hydrogen peroxide alternated with flame).
Once you go through, push fluids out, working towards new hole.
Location of drilling, just above cuticle.
I admit, I had others do the "drilling"
Daily soaks warm water and epsom salts with regular applications of neosporin.
Keep covered with a band-aid.
Long live the black toe thread..
Do you need to 'plug' the hole you've made after it has stopped leaking? Will it plug itself?
Also, a good tip for first-timers: don't let the hot needle sit in the nail too long, otherwise it will stick there, and you'll freak out for a moment.
I've been shedding toe-nails every summer for years running Lange boots. I like my boots tight as hell, and really couldn't get a boot-fitter to make a bigger boot fit tight enough to prevent the inevitable toe-pound.
However, i haven't had the dead-nail for about 3 years now. Since i got some Nordica - Speedmachine 14's. I got them smaller than i was used to, then put in a heel cup and custom footbed to raise the heel and pull the toes back away from the end just enough to stop the toe-bang. I fit these myself, and it took a bit of work to get the footbed flat/comfortable after raising the heel, but it was VERY worth the effort. I would pay a fitter in the future to make this adjustment, it's way better than the hot-pin solution after the fact.
Also, i've noticed that making adjustments mid-season after the toe is already bruised wont' feel like it helped much since the damage has been done. It needs to be done at the beginning of the season with a fresh new toe-nail!
so glad I just did the permanent removal. I remember this shit being such a pain in the ass. never again!
Black toes = bad bootfitting. 99% of bootfitters put people in boots that are too short. See my post on Heretical Bootfitting Theory:
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107763
^^^ +1.
Make sure your ankle and instep are a snug fit, and don't size down if it don't fit, fill in volume space with inserts (heel, footbed, etc.)
IMO, sizing down to reduce volume is the main cause of black toe, along with packed-out liners and leaning back too much.
I lost one at the end of last season, and the new one hasn't completely grown back in. I'm getting some pain at the end of the day where the new nail gets pushed into the nailbed between it and the end of my foot. Is that normal? I'm in super tight boots, probably what did it in the first place, though it never happened with the other foot. 10.5 foot in a 26.5 Salomon plug shell, about a half finger behind my heel.