University choice

[sweet blog]
My son is 17, he got his french high school diploma with flying colors and he's contemplating higher education in an english-speaking country.

He's holding offers from a few programs in the UK and in Canada.

He narrowed the choice to McGill in Montreal for a BA (with a major in poli-sci, or econ or history) or a BCom (Desautels Faculty of Management), or UCL's ESPS degree in London.
Academically, ESPS should be a no brainer : Great uni, highly selective degree, only 40 (presumably smart) students, very flexible, one year abroad (Spain for him), great staff/student ratio...
On the other hand, he doesn't like London so much, while he did enjoy Montreal very much (in the summer...). He also think he would enjoy the north american "campus experience" more than the euro "urban university" vibe of UCL. (we did visit both uni). So, he's actualy leaning heavily towards McGill, on extra academic criteria.

Other factors to consider :
we would foot the bill and McGill is much cheaper for us (french citizens pay the Quebec rate of tution / UCL is expensive and London even more so)
He can get his degree in 3 years in McGill, since his french Baccalauréat is good for 30 credits/120.
The ESPS degree is 4 years (3 years in London + 1 year in Spain.)
He probably won't be seeking employment right after graduation. Further eligibility to master degrees (including in the US) is important. According to friends who teach in US universities, good grades are the key. McGill or UCL, it doesn't really matter.
Did I mention that the ESPS degree is pretty sweet ?

At the end of the day, it's up to him to choose : As a father, ESPS is obviously the smart option, but I'd rather see him get good grades and spend 3 happy years in McGill than struggle at UCL.

Any input on the situation from the highly educated and international crowd of TGR ?

WWMD ?

Well since you're French, he shouldn't go to Montreal, since he doesn't speak the language.

pm Buster, he might have some ideas.

But seriously…to me that ESPS program sounds great but if he's going be unhappy there…

McGill. Be happy. Plus it's closer to skiing than London.

of course he liked montreal.

hes going to be happy in college no matter where. prob tough to convince him of that now, but 18-22 yr old tail is just as good basically everywhere (except arizona state).

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Originally Posted by iceman

Well since you're French, he shouldn't go to Montreal, since he doesn't speak the language.

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Heh. Parlez-vous Québécois?

McGill is a fine institution, Montreal a vibrant city

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Originally Posted by Brock Landers

of course he liked montreal.

hes going to be happy in college no matter where. prob tough to convince him of that now, but 18-22 yr old tail is just as good basically everywhere (except arizona state).

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Disagree, I think he will get more tail and better tail in Montreal. I think the kid thinks knows that too and it is weighing heavily on the decision.

Philippe, if you let your kid decide (not a bad idea) he will likely go for the place that sounds more fun and better opportunities with girls, in this case Montreal. Nothing wrong with that if it provides a decent education, but he does have to know the parameters to continue to study there. If you have friends in Montreal, get him hooked up with them for dinners every so often. It is good to still feel connected to your family when you are off at university.

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

Heh. Parlez-vous Québécois?

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Quebonics

yeah its different and if you call a french man a Quebecois he might be insulted

Phoenix Online University, he can be a auto technician in just 9 months!!

First congrats P... good problem to have! McGill sounds like the right choice, though. Great school, cheaper and he likes it.

And if you need me to go check up on him, I'll gladly make the sacrifice.


PS- My little one will be in Paris for a couple weeks this summer... maybe you can keep an eye on her?

obviously go to McGill, where as a French citizen you will pay 1/3 of the tuition fees at a Canadian university in Quebec than any other non-quebecois Canadian student will pay!

actually - my younger bro, a non-quebecois Canadian, is at McGill doing a Bcom, paying 2/3 more than you will be, and he is having a blast. Sounds like a thorough education. If you would like me to ask him a bit about the program I'd be happy to, from what I hear its a great faculty. Lots of my buddies graduated from there, they seem to be hard at it these days.

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Originally Posted by philippeR

[sweet blog]

On the other hand, he doesn't like London so much, while he did enjoy Montreal very much (in the summer...). He also think he would enjoy the north american "campus experience" more than the euro "urban university" vibe of UCL. (we did visit both uni).

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I had a similar experience with London. Was accepted to KCL for my doctorate program but though I love London as a visitor after two visits in the dreary English winter to have meetings with the prof who would be my advisor I realized I couldn't hack London. Too dreary, expensive and far from skiing. Ended up going somewhere else.

And for an undergrad not much beats an American or Canadian University campus experience!

I missed the part where you said what your sons passion was.

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Originally Posted by wooley12

I missed the part where you said what your sons passion was.

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People have passions other than skiing? Interesting.

I did an exchange with McGill for a summer and it was great. Montreal is great, and the school is seemingly (in my short experience) pretty good. There was a pretty vibrant listserve outdoor crew to get a group of people to go do whatever for the weekends too. Easy to bum rides up north (or south). Reasonable air fair back to euroland.

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Originally Posted by wooley12

I missed the part where you said what your sons passion was.

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Based on those options, I'd say it involves being a liberal-hippie-douche bag funded by a dad with deep pockets and not enough sense to steer his spawn towards anything that ends in a job after he wastes 4 years and $100,000.

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Originally Posted by farmer

Based on those options, I'd say it involves being a liberal-hippie-douche bag funded by a dad with deep pockets and not enough sense to steer his spawn towards anything that ends in a job after he wastes 4 years and $100,000.

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Yea. Nobody from McGill has ever made any money or had a future.

http://www.mcgill.ca/about/alumni

Or UCL for that matter.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/about-ucl/history

Here is your shitty little schools alumni for comparison.

http://mtech.edu/alumni/distinguished.php

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Originally Posted by farmer

Based on those options, I'd say it involves being a liberal-hippie-douche bag funded by a dad with deep pockets and not enough sense to steer his spawn towards anything that ends in a job after he wastes 4 years and $100,000.

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I think I got that part. I tried to help mine follow their passion. Both are happy and one has skied 50-100 days a year for the last 10.

London sucks unless you know you will leave soon.

Montreal's only bad thing is the winter, but most people live underground, so it does not matter.

Masters at a USA school? Most schools love McGill.

Montreal rocks for Canada.

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Originally Posted by Gripen

Yea. Nobody from McGill has ever made any money or had a future.

http://www.mcgill.ca/about/alumni

Or UCL for that matter.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/about-ucl/history

Here is your shitty little schools alumni for comparison.

http://mtech.edu/alumni/distinguished.php

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^^^I think we call that "schooled"



So, How derogatory is the word "Queeb"? ...because I love using it.

Wow, thank you maggots for all the answers.
To clarify some issues : At this point of his life, his passions mostly involve playing a lot of basketball, hanging out with his buds, getting involved in leftwing politics and girls. And, yes, he likes skiing. As far as I can tell he's not too big on booze or weed (he does too much sports for that). I think his head is in the right place, considering his age.

Money is important. we did not start saving for college 15 years ago. in France education is cheap, if not free. That's why we did not apply in the US. But McGill is a steal : It cost less than 4000 C$ / year in tution fees for french people. That's around 2600 €. London should prove 4 or 5 times more expensive... We could afford it but would feel the pain.

I'm not worried about him making a decision based only on the fun factor. We have no shortage of hot girls or cheap beer in Paris. (And London can provide plenty of it too). He actually worked pretty hard the last year of high school, to get the best options academically. And he's currently seriously evaluating every course and conference of both unis. But, yes, he's ready to go to the comparatively less prestigious but still very reputed McGill for the overall campus experience.

Distance is an issue. I guess we'll have a hefty plane ticket budget. And some family members could make trip also. London is obviously closer, but we should manage to visit him, have him traveling to France or have a family member / friend to check on him frequently enough. (Thanks for the offer, Big Daddy, good to know you could step in in a case of emergency).

So, it looks like a vote of confidence for McGill. I was hoping for some UK mags to tell me how ESPS is the next best program to Oxbridge... Because it looks like.

Decision dead line is may 1st, I keep you posted...

Big Daddy, Schemeboat, check your PMs

The red ones......oh, wait wrong thread.

Be careful of some of the Queeb french degrees they are damn near free but you also get what you pay for. Get the deal and tell Jr. to double bag it or the savings in tuition will be made up on designer meds for resistant std's.

Enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Gripen

Here is your shitty little schools alumni for comparison.

http://mtech.edu/alumni/distinguished.php

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Wait, THE Silvio Fopp??

edit: I see Ken Dryden went to McGill, so fuck that place. Although you have to give them some credit for William Shatner I guess.

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Originally Posted by DasBlunt

Montreal rocks for Canada.

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You obviously weren't paying attention in your Pauline Marois lecture... Montreal isn't in Canada, its in Quebec.

The UCL degree looks much broader than most UK undergraduate programmes so it's a little hard for me to judge it comparative to other degrees here. It does look like a very interesting programme though, with a lot of potential for intellectual growth as well as the chance to develop skills (languages) that would assist his employability. Bearing that in mind...

Does he know what he wants to do for work yet? Or where? And is the objective of the degree to make him more employable or to generally extend his education and give him time to grow up? If it is the former I would think UCL makes more sense; there are a lot of good graduates who can't get jobs right now so I'd be concerned about getting the absolute best degree I can to be more employable.

If he's likely to want to go into a European graduate scheme then UCL would be a good place to be as they will be on the circuit for milkround recruiters and should be geared up to assisting undergrads with their applications, networking events etc. Plus it'll be a more recognisable qualification to a London-based recruiter and London would be an easier place to get a relevant internship. Obviously the opposite would be true if he wants to work in Canada. And I don't know how French recruiters view English degrees - maybe you know better?

There's lots to dislike about London but it is also a great city. I expect if he comes here with a positive attitude he'll have a load of fun. That said, I didn't like the idea of a big city university because I thought I'd be likely to wash up here eventually anyway and wanted to experience life elsewhere. And living independently away from home for the first time in a big city isn't necessarily for everyone.

I did a 4-year undergraduate course at a Scottish university that resulted in an MA as a first degree. I know your son will be overseas anyway, but I had the chance to spend a year abroad in Grenoble and the experience of a different country's university culture was very valuable (as well as a 120+ day winter I found the studying abroad awesome and employers have been very positive about it too).

I can't give you any answers as you/he need to work out a decision. But if you have any questions about life in London I'd be happy to help.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I see Ken Dryden went to McGill, so fuck that place.

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For undergrad he played for Big Red and won a championship in 1967. He was unbelievable, winning 76 of 81 games. He's pretty much a God there.

Well fuck that place too then, obviously.

Guy ruined my childhood.

Sad thing is, Bruins had him, but traded for some lame picks.

Back on topic... PR's son should definitely bone up on his Star Trek episodes.

Montreal is one of my favorite towns. If he's heterosexual he will love it there... hottest women in N. America IMHO. Fun bar area near the University as well.

Thank you Mulletizer. Very helpful input.
(I don't think he will seek employment in 3 years.)

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Originally Posted by philippeR

[sweet blog]
.
, one year abroad (Spain for him), great staff/student ratio...
On the other hand, he doesn't like London so much, while he did enjoy Montreal very much (in the summer...). He also think he would enjoy the north american "campus experience" more than the euro "urban university" vibe of UCL. (we did visit both uni). So, he's actualy leaning heavily towards McGill, on extra academic criteria.

Other factors to consider :
we would foot the bill and McGill is much cheaper for us (french citizens pay the Quebec rate of tution / UCL is expensive and London even more so)
He can get his degree in 3 years in McGill, since his french Baccalauréat is good for 30 credits/120.
The ESPS degree is 4 years (3 years in London + 1 year in Spain.)
.?

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I seem to remember hearing that Spain was on the cheaper side for tuition?

The year abroad in Spain is part of the program, year 3 / 4. (He could have been in Germany, Italy, sweden, France, Russia…and a bunch of other european countries. And chose Spain since he's rather fluent in Spanish.) UCL doesn't give you a discount unfortunately…

Edit : Ok, BigDaddy, Iceman, now I get it. You're talking hockey, right ? Do I need to start following hockey if my son is in Montreal ?

Since the Quiet Revolution hockey is pretty much the main religion in Quebec

Oui, l'hockey. Les Canadiens de Montreal et les Bruins de Boston.

It's either hockey or curling...


I'd pick hockey.

Canada IS a curling power watch the movie "Men with Brooms"

Yeah, but which would you rather watch... especially live?