C4... 993 or 964?

It's getting to be that time... Really torn between the two. Love the way the 964 looks and the awd is a lot more worthwhile. The 993 undoubtedly handles better, doesn't leak oil, faster, etc. Would prefer the narrow body, which is almost unheard of in the 993 C4. When I look at the 993, I see a baby 997... The 964 looks like a real 911. I've read a hundred threads on Rennlist and Total911... Still can't decide... Any advice?

http://cprclassic.com/images/carspre...oof/900W/1.JPG

http://fatlace.com/lacedup/wp-conten.../47525138.jpeg

on your big salary can't you afford both of the Matchbox ones?

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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

on your big salary can't you afford both of the Matchbox ones?

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I just dumped your mom - oughta save me about $750/month in condoms and cheeseburgers.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

I just dumped your mom - oughta save me about $750/month in condoms and cheeseburgers.

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you fucking rontele for the free burgers and fries now?

Need's to have the 70s interior

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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

you fucking rontele for the free burgers and fries now?

Need's to have the 70s interior

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no, but I'd let him blow me for a 2.7 RS.... The interior could be tie dye for all I care..

http://911rsclone.com/photos/Butzi_73-1-lg.jpg

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

http://cprclassic.com/images/carspre...oof/900W/1.JPG

http://fatlace.com/lacedup/wp-conten.../47525138.jpeg

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Well duh. I think it's pretty obvious. One of those has been driven in the rain and the other one hasn't.

You won't look at the water cooled 996?? I might consider an 03 996 c4s or 04 996 TT cab. They are awful tempting when looking at price and drivability....

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saw a 4door version parked at the country club last nite. looked like the better model for banging japanese chicks in the back.
b

993.......
Attachment 143348

Buddy's dad had a 911SC while we were in school. Just like this one. Rock chips and all.
http://www.themotoringenthusiast.com...9/04/79sc1.jpg

I've had a soft spot in my heart for those ever since.
So I'd go with the 964.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

It's getting to be that time... Really torn between the two. Love the way the 964 looks and the awd is a lot more worthwhile. The 993 undoubtedly handles better, doesn't leak oil, faster, etc. Would prefer the narrow body, which is almost unheard of in the 993 C4. When I look at the 993, I see a baby 997... The 964 looks like a real 911. I've read a hundred threads on Rennlist and Total911... Still can't decide... Any advice?

http://cprclassic.com/images/carspre...oof/900W/1.JPG

http://fatlace.com/lacedup/wp-conten.../47525138.jpeg

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JHCrikey!!!! Those things look like they just drove directly out of 1986!!!! ......but it STILL looks HOT!!!

Accolades to Porsche for not fixing what obviously ain't broke!!!! :D :P

EDIT: Wait....is that lower photo a 1986 car, afterall??? R they still using those wheels???

Having driven both (and just about every model Porsche under the sun until 2001), the answer is clear to me: A 1996 993 Turbo. That car will always hold a special place in my heart, and is pretty much my favorite Porsche ever. Wish I could afford one now. Someday, though...someday.

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Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

Having driven both (and just about every model Porsche under the sun until 2001), the answer is clear to me: A 1996 993 Turbo. That car will always hold a special place in my heart, and is pretty much my favorite Porsche ever. Wish I could afford one now. Someday, though...someday.

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I have too and I liked my 2002 996 TT more than my buddies 993 Turbo. To the OP's question, I only like the 964 in the wide body configuration, which is going to cost as much as a nice 993. The 993's are more of a collector car now, so for a daily driver, which gives you the biggest bang for the buck, yep, you guessed it, 2002-04 996 TT. If I ever make a real paycheck again, I would really like a 997 Targa or TT. Those are just beautiful cars.

Thanks for the tips guys... I know people can barely give their 996's away - I'm still not buying one... To big, not a/c, hardly a 911 in my book.... I keep trying to talk myself into the 993. I'm sure the 993 is an all around better car than the 964, but the 964 just looks so much more like a 911... Pure, must have, childhood fantasy, want. The childhood fantasy didn't involve writing 5 figure checks to get the drivetrain repaired though... So I'm still arguing with myself about it.

Jeepers...doesn't Porsche realize how FREAKIN' confusicating it is with these different 900 numbers? 993, 964, 9blah 9blahblah..... I mean they are ALL derivative of the 911, right??? Just start using model names! I could see different numbers for totally different cars...i.e. - 944 vs 928 vs 911 vs the crappy 924 and 912. But jeeez...what is all this??????

Or is it simply that the porschephiles like using numbers that 'regular folk' don't know what they mean? A secret society??

I have been selling a lot of Porsche lately.

Just sold a Cayman today.

The 993 is the better choice IMO. I am not a big fan of the 996. If you want to pm me, I have a really nice 993 Cab for sale. Not a 4 though.

Singer makes a nice 911...

http://arizonafoothillsmagazine.com/...ain-hills1.jpg

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Originally Posted by reganized

You won't look at the water cooled 996?? I might consider an 03 996 c4s or 04 996 TT cab. They are awful tempting when looking at price and drivability....

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I would steer clear of 996 Cabs.

my brother in law has enough money to wipe his ass with hundred dollar bills, and still bought a cayman. he is an idiot.

If he has a pre 14 Cayman, then I agree.

The new Cayman looks pretty good. Extremely well balanced. The Cayman GTS will be a nice car.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....ayman-s-fd.jpg

red for extra speed too!
b

No room for my chainsaw ... pass

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

no, 2.7 RS.... The interior should be tie dye ..

http://911rsclone.com/photos/Butzi_73-1-lg.jpg

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Ding ding!!

fixed

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

I have been selling a lot of Porsche lately.

Just sold a Cayman today.

The 993 is the better choice IMO. I am not a big fan of the 996. If you want to pm me, I have a really nice 993 Cab for sale. Not a 4 though.

Singer makes a nice 911...

http://arizonafoothillsmagazine.com/...ain-hills1.jpg




I would steer clear of 996 Cabs.

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Outside of them not being as core as a 993tt coupe what are your concerns with the 996 TT cab?

The mezger 996tt is considered a fairly badass engine even within porsche. So many people are still hard on for the 993 but prices are high already. I think the 996 will come back into favor slightly as people realize that its a great car for the $..

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Originally Posted by reganized

Outside of them not being as core as a 993tt coupe what are your concerns with the 996 TT cab?

The mezger 996tt is considered a fairly badass engine even within porsche. So many people are still hard on for the 993 but prices are high already. I think the 996 will come back into favor slightly as people realize that its a great car for the $..

Sent from my XT1080 using TGR Forums

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It's a fucking ugly car that wasn't prduction ready in '99 and barely looks like a 911. Porsche have redeemed themselves a bit since then, but looking back on photos of the 996, for Ferdinand's sake, I'm glad he died first.

Go find an old porsche mechanic and he will tell you what yrs to avoid.

I had a 97, 993 that leaked water when it rained. I spent 3k trying to find the source then got rid of it. Seems anything rubber on some yrs is a problem. The first yr 996's had issues, they needed the gaskets/seals replaced at 60k because they came out of the factory like a hairline off center. My 993 was expected to need the same, that costs like 7500 usd. He liked the late 80's if your buying used. Also, most bone heads dont top off the oil as much as they need, they burn alot, so be careful.

I rebuilt a 911t with my dad, but my 993 was a PITA. Fun to drive though.

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Originally Posted by reganized

The mezger 996tt is considered a fairly badass engine even within porsche. So many people are still hard on for the 993 but prices are high already. I think the 996 will come back into favor slightly as people realize that its a great car for the $..Sent from my XT1080 using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

It's a fucking ugly car that wasn't prduction ready in '99 and barely looks like a 911. Porsche have redeemed themselves a bit since then, but looking back on photos of the 996, for Ferdinand's sake, I'm glad he died first.

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Problem with the non turbo 996 is the engine rear main seal and ya, I am not a fan of it's grill or ass. However, the turbo version addresses everything I don't like. Bad ass grill (even better looking on the GT2) big wide ass and of course the bullet proof engine. While I will agree the 993 and 997 have much prettier lines than the 996 TT. There is not a better Porsche out the for the buck, period.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

It's a fucking ugly car that wasn't prduction ready in '99 and barely looks like a 911. Porsche have redeemed themselves a bit since then, but looking back on photos of the 996, for Ferdinand's sake, I'm glad he died first.

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Whut? I think the 996 looks more like a traditional 911 than the 993, whose front end reminds me of a Miata.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...era_racing.jpg

That said I'd be happy with either one.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

It's a fucking ugly car that wasn't prduction ready in '99 and barely looks like a 911. Porsche have redeemed themselves a bit since then, but looking back on photos of the 996, for Ferdinand's sake, I'm glad he died first.

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Really??

Attachment 143430

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Originally Posted by reganized

Outside of them not being as core as a 993tt coupe what are your concerns with the 996 TT cab?

The mezger 996tt is considered a fairly badass engine even within porsche. So many people are still hard on for the 993 but prices are high already. I think the 996 will come back into favor slightly as people realize that its a great car for the $..

Sent from my XT1080 using TGR Forums

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The 996TT coupe is a badass car, and it does not have the Intermediate Drive Shaft or Rear Main Seal issues like the NA 996s.

However ALL of the 996 Cabriolets will have roof issues. Pre 03 have that crap plastic window that fogs.

I also prefer the 993 looks to the 996. The 997 is a good looking car, but compared to the 991 it looks dated to me.

The 996 will be the most car for the money, but I would only get a Turbo or Turbo S.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...llye_2010).jpg

A 2.7 RS will run you 500k. Rather have a CGT and money left over for a nice 993 Turbo.

For that kind of money you can legally import one of these.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lon_Singen.jpg

Or go with the one built for the outdoor enthusiast.
http://images.thecarconnection.com/m...00224682_m.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...llye_2010).jpg

A 2.7 RS will run you 500k. Rather have a CGT and money left over for a nice 993 Turbo.

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Fuckin aye Bobby. Nice find. I love Porsche Porn.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Problem with the non turbo 996 is the engine rear main seal and ya, I am not a fan of it's grill or ass. However, the turbo version addresses everything I don't like. Bad ass grill (even better looking on the GT2) big wide ass and of course the bullet proof engine. While I will agree the 993 and 997 have much prettier lines than the 996 TT. There is not a better Porsche out the for the buck, period.

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I do agree with you that something like your '02 996 TT is about the most bang for the buck, and is still a fantastic car (reliable, too!), but there is just something so raw and awesome about the '96 993 Turbo that I have a tough time describing properly through words. Please don't get me wrong, though. When it comes time for ME to get a Porsche, it will most likely be a 996 TT for some of the very reasons you already said, but still, that old 993 was an all out beast. Not that the 996 isn't. But the later years definitely seemed more gentle to me. Still fast as hell, but a bit softer, more manageable. The older Porsches had to be man-handled a bit more. You had to be way more on your game as to not let it get away from you. And man, I just loved that about them. BUT then again, if we were talking daily driver, then yeah, 996 forward would definitely be it.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Really??

Attachment 143430

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Yeah, really... I don't disagree that the 996 gt2 is a sharp looking car, but it doesn't look like a real 911. And one cool thing about 911's for the most part is that even a beater looks fucking awesome. That was true right up until the 996, which looked like absolute shit with the standard wheels, tires, paint, etc. Sure, throw $150k worth of performance and bling on it and it starts to come around, but that's missing the point.

On a different note... Anyone in CO have a dealer/finder they liked working with? I'm set to start looking... for which, I'm not sure yet, but I would like to have a car to drive next summer if possible...

993.......
Attachment 143439

Porsche porn
http://sloancars.com

89 turbo is a fine piece of ass.

Attachment 143442

So is the 97

Attachment 143443

Or you could be a real hero and get a 930

Attachment 143444

Or you could steal a Carrera GT like I did. I saw an old man on the side of the road in Jupiter Fl in a GT, I stopped to help him, and he let me drive his GT to fix his tire. Guy owned the Grizzlies. That was a good day.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps724ca6aa.jpg

04 996tt cab is about as good as it gets w/o getting into big $

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Originally Posted by reganized

04 996tt cab is about as good as it gets w/o getting into big $

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Looks like I have no choice but to agree with you. Just did an Autotrader search for fun, searching for manuals only of course. What I'm seeing is that for the '96 993, the cheapest I could find was 52k with 83,000 miles. Up to almost 95k for one with only 25,000 miles. Compare that to mid 30's I'm seeing for '04 Turbos (many of them Cabs) to max of 75k for ones with like no miles.

Yeah, as much I am in love with the 993, I think I'd go for an '04 give or take a few years. I just couldn't justify the prices for the older ones, especially knowing that the later models are still damn good, despite my preference. If any of you are saying the 996 is a POS, then you likely don't know what you're talking about. You're probably just driving a Subaru Outback with a CVT anyway. :wink:

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Originally Posted by AustinFromSA

Looks like I have no choice but to agree with you. Just did an Autotrader search for fun, searching for manuals only of course. What I'm seeing is that for the '96 993, the cheapest I could find was 52k with 83,000 miles. Up to almost 95k for one with only 25,000 miles. Compare that to mid 30's I'm seeing for '04 Turbos (many of them Cabs) to max of 75k for ones with like no miles.

Yeah, as much I am in love with the 993, I think I'd go for an '04 give or take a few years. I just couldn't justify the prices for the older ones, especially knowing that the later models are still damn good, despite my preference. If any of you are saying the 996 is a POS, then you likely don't know what you're talking about. You're probably just driving a Subaru Outback with a CVT anyway. :wink:

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I'm certainly not saying the 996 is a POS, but it doesn't scratch my itch for a 911. The 993 barely does, although I'd love to come to terms with that and not suffer through the oil leaks and other issues associated with the 964... I figure to spend about $50K on the project - I could certainly get a newer, faster 996 with fewer miles for that money, but it just doesn't do it... Coming home with one of those would be like going looking for a '34 Ford and coming home with a Plymouth Prowler.

This:

http://www.automobile-sportive.com/g...-ouverture.jpg

does not equal this:

http://www.jzmporsche.com/000256-1-l...che-964-c2.jpg

This is what I'm looking for... only with half the miles...

http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/..._A.562x421.jpg

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

I'm certainly not saying the 996 is a POS, but it doesn't scratch my itch for a 911. The 993 barely does, although I'd love to come to terms with that and not suffer through the oil leaks and other issues associated with the 964... I figure to spend about $50K on the project - I could certainly get a newer, faster 996 with fewer miles for that money, but it just doesn't do it... Coming home with one of those would be like going looking for a '34 Ford and coming home with a Plymouth Prowler.

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I certainly understand where you're coming from, and like I've said before, the 993 is still my favorite. I've just had friends who were armchair car critics talk crap about the 996 and other cars they've never driven.

Sounds like you pretty much know what you want, though. Honestly, if you don't mind some miles, and don't mind doing some maintenance (and spending some big $$$ on parts), then you honestly can't go wrong with ANY model. In the end, I would be happy with pretty much any iteration of 911.

Each to their own. That is what keeps the World interesting. The 964 is about the ugliest front end Porsche ever put on a P car IMO, YMMV. The great news is, if you have $50k for the car, then please get the wide body as that car is beautiful and will definitely appreciate with time.

Attachment 143460

I thought this was going to all be about explosives. Odd. I grew (15-20) up with my dad having one of these…
http://www.classic-auctions.com/Imag...126C/47756.jpg
and we used to take it out to Thunderhill for track days, go up and down highway 9 in the Santa Cruz mountains, and rail the fuck out of it. So much fun. His didn't have the whale tail at first, but he added it, euro drop, white with black wheels and black targa top… Loved that car.

He got a little more flush and dropped $80k on a silver with black '98 Carrera S. Stunning vehicle. Finest version of Porsche's air cooled engines. Got to track it and drive it to senior ball. Problem with this car was that it was an $80k car - You couldn't just stick it in a corner and mash the gas without wincing a little, and if you know Porsche, you know that wincing and lifting once you're in the corner is the worst thing you can do. The 993 was an amazing car, but Porsche's have changed character so little that you can get as much of the sensation with any of their cars.
http://www.aceautosports.com/wordpre...-011-large.jpg

He sold both of them later on (market crash), but only regretted selling the '88.