New avalanche safety device

I am part of a group of senior mechanical engineering majors at the Univeristy of Maryland College Park who are currentlly enrolled in a senior design class. Our group would like to design an avalanche safety device, and we would appreciate any of your guys input and insight as we begin our project.


We are just staring the design process and have a couple of ideas in mind. Would any of you be willing to fill out a very short survey so we can find what features would be useful for advanced skiers/snowboarders who venture out into the backcountry?

Here's the link to the survey:
http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2245XQG82P6

Thanks guys in advance.
:cool:

I'll take your survey, but you gotta promise to keep us in the loop on the development on your gear.

I took your survey. Although it is SPAM, I'll help in anyway I can. Question and question 10.

"How much safer would you feel if you wore a product that claimed to reduce the risk of avalanche submersion as compared to not wearing a device at all?"

Reduce the risk as in you are not going to get burried (Avi pack style) are going have a better chance of surviving under the snow (Avalung).

survey sent. I too would like to see what you guys come up with and maybe see the results of the survey.

Studying avalanche survival gear in Maryland?

Will it help me survive if I get run trough a stand of timber at 50 - 100mph?

Being in here in Maryland its tough to get in touch with any people who are experienced with real backcountry skiing. I've skiing since I was 4 and I've done some out of bounds stuff on trips out West, but I definitely don't have background that I know a lot of you guys do.

We have done a lot of research on the current ava safety technologies out there and I think there's room for a lot of innovation. The device will work in conjunction with an beacon to help prevent burial and extend a persons chances for survival if they are burried. Hitting a tree at 50-100 mph is another story...

Thanks guys for the feedback already.

Please PM me your email and contact information.

We (my company) are developing something right now, before the avie starts. Can't say much here, but maybe we can pick each others brains. Forecasting technology.

Buzz

Just throwin' it out there, and this might be your idea (I didn't take the quiz yet) what about something like an inflatable life vest. I know that you're supposed to "swim" to try and stay on top of an avy, would an inflated balloon around you increase your surface area and keep you on top??? What to y'all think?

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Originally Posted by 1080Rider

Just throwin' it out there, and this might be your idea (I didn't take the quiz yet) what about something like an inflatable life vest. I know that you're supposed to "swim" to try and stay on top of an avy, would an inflated balloon around you increase your surface area and keep you on top??? What to y'all think?

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already been done, albet i hear plently of room for improvement. Popular in europe but not so much in the US i believe. Also seems to be issues with importing it due to means of gas storage i belive, although i dont think this is the issue any more.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...ir+bag&spell=1

pretty sure there is more than a few threads here on them

cool, I've been waiting for someone to develop a Star Trek-like human transporter.....beam me up Scottie! :fm:

ok, seriously, how about a system that works with lasers so that when you shine the lasers at the snow, it bounces off a reflective material on the skier's clothes that reflects a signal back to the laser pointer's screen which pinpoints the location

sort of like a laser radar

a really cool defense contractor is using forward looking infrared technology to do something for the military...check them out

http://www.flir.com

How about a device that attatches a small keg of beer to your avalung?

how about sharks with freakin laser beams attached to their heads?

Plakes and Snorkel, I just about fell out of my chair laughing.

But really keep us posted on designs, I think anything that would help you towards the surface would be a good place to start.

Plakespear that article was great, I remember reading that.

What the hell is an avy ball?? Am I just stupid...or calling it something else

Avy ball = that silver inflatable orb used in the James Bond film "The World is Not Enough".

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Originally Posted by EastCoastSkiBum

What the hell is an avy ball?? Am I just stupid...or calling it something else

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You where it in a hip pouch when you are in a slide you pull a cord and it pops out of the pouch and floats to the surface of the snow. It's tied to a string which leads back to you. It's a new take on the old avy cord which was common before beacons.

http://www.mountainmiser.com/merchan...ory_Code=WA-BC

Cool! I took your survey.

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Originally Posted by SquawMan

ok, seriously, how about a system that works with lasers so that when you shine the lasers at the snow, it bounces off a reflective material on the skier's clothes that reflects a signal back to the laser pointer's screen which pinpoints the location

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RECCO kind of works like this.

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Originally Posted by SquawMan

sort of like a laser radar

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That would be LIDAR.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SquawMan

a really cool defense contractor is using forward looking infrared technology to do something for the military...check them out

http://www.flir.com

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FLIR=Forward Looking Infrared Radar... unfortunately H2O including snow absorbs IR very effectively very quickly... as in all of it in inches.

Thanks for trying to help keep us alive you
JONG

can't believe nobody did it yet...

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Originally Posted by SquawMan

cool, I've been waiting for someone to develop a Star Trek-like human transporter.....beam me up Scottie! :fm:

ok, seriously, how about a system that works with lasers so that when you shine the lasers at the snow, it bounces off a reflective material on the skier's clothes that reflects a signal back to the laser pointer's screen which pinpoints the location

sort of like a laser radar

a really cool defense contractor is using forward looking infrared technology to do something for the military...check them out

http://www.flir.com

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I think with radar you can actully see about 10 meters into snow, pretty sure I read something about that while studying remote sensing for nerd fest.

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Originally Posted by stronny

I am part of a group of senior mechanical engineering majors at the Univeristy of Maryland College Park

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How the heck did you get a senior design class working on THAT?? I'm impressed. Just doesn't seem like something you could generate any interest in out here. Good work, keep us updated.

Go Terps!

BTW, I got edumacated at UMCP, EE major, graduated a few years ago. Still live in College Park area, actually, still hit the CRC regularly.

And stop lurking.

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Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey

I think with radar you can actully see about 10 meters into snow, pretty sure I read something about that while studying remote sensing for nerd fest.

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Ha. Summit got called out by AKPM.

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Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey

I think with radar you can actully see about 10 meters into snow, pretty sure I read something about that while studying remote sensing for nerd fest.

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You are correct. GPR (ground penetrating radar) is used (on rare occaison) by SAR to see through avalanche debris (too an extent). The devices are heavy and cumbersome. GPR is not FLIR (not infrared period) but rather UHF or VHF (I think something between 150-500MHz). It is a tool that is generall brought in very late (several days) into a search when dogs and probes have failed to find bodies in deep and/or hard debris. (Metal Detectors may also be utilized during this time)

I'm sure others use it for other purposes (don't know who or what though).

EDIT POST 2000!!!!! I'M A NERRRRRRRRRRD :eek:

What I am waiting for is a device that one can load a chip into for all their purposes.
That is to say, I take the following with me:
a mobile phone
a camera
a av beacon
an altimeter
a compass

And others bring other things, like:
GPS
music
(add your own here)

Wouldn't it be nice to have them all in one.
But, instead of chasing the market around, trying to fit them together,
just make them all available and let the user (us) load a number of them into the same device.

Even better than a chip would be an internet download.

Just a thought.

Bassed on patagouchies ad campaing and kits sold by burton et all, I think that drug sniffing dogs could be very effective in locating avy victims.

I sort of remember reading about a system that has a baloon type of thing that inflates and is attatched to a rope system tied to your body. In an avalanch the baloon is supposed to float to the surface, which would act as a beacon to rescuers. Or maybe I just dreamed it up and have an invention on my hands?

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Originally Posted by PaSucks

I sort of remember reading about a system that has a baloon type of thing that inflates and is attatched to a rope system tied to your body. In an avalanch the baloon is supposed to float to the surface, which would act as a beacon to rescuers. Or maybe I just dreamed it up and have an invention on my hands?

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Or you could have read about it in this very thread with a couple posts mentioning the device...

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Originally Posted by Mountain Junkie

Or you could have read about it in this very thread with a couple posts mentioning the device...

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not really, his is slightly different. Sounds kinda like a buoy. Something to think about i guess.

What happens when the line connected from ballon to body has a horizontal component? It would get you in the general area quickly but then you would still have to have a beacon to dig in the right spot. Good idea for a quicker search tho...hurmmm...

EDIT: I stand corrected, it was mentioned in the thread already...my bad

what he described is an avalanche ball. Ball ends up on surface - follow the cord to victim.

But, an avalanche BALLOON could be a new invention. Hit the trigger, helium tank expands into the baloon - you are lifted up and out of the avalanche and can watch it slide underneath you from the air.
Catch a few thermals while you're up there, ride the thermals back to the top and ski back down.
Sweet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TeleAl

What I am waiting for is a device that one can load a chip into for all their purposes.
That is to say, I take the following with me:
a mobile phone
a camera
a av beacon
an altimeter
a compass

And others bring other things, like:
GPS
music
(add your own here)

Wouldn't it be nice to have them all in one.
But, instead of chasing the market around, trying to fit them together,
just make them all available and let the user (us) load a number of them into the same device.

Even better than a chip would be an internet download.

Just a thought.

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Actually, there are phones that are cameras and MP3 players. Some can use a GPS unit (on a card plugged into it , or connected via bluetooth), which gives you compass and altimiter.
All you need is the avvy beacon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottG

what he described is an avalanche ball. Ball ends up on surface - follow the cord to victim.

But, an avalanche BALLOON could be a new invention. Hit the trigger, helium tank expands into the baloon - you are lifted up and out of the avalanche and can watch it slide underneath you from the air.
Catch a few thermals while you're up there, ride the thermals back to the top and ski back down.
Sweet.

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hurm. Airbags use a NaN3 reaction, very fast lots of volume: aprox 150gm of NaN3 = approx 67Liters of gas at atmospheric pressure, but the density of N2 at atm. pressure is only slightly less than air (28g/mol vs 29g/mol). You would need compressed hydrogen (explosive), or compressed helium at extremely high pressures to wear comfortably.

Actually to create boyancy, wouldnt it require a mass of gas > mass of your body? A mass of gas greater than the mass of your body, but at a density much less than air, so you would need a large ballon. Goo...not gonna work I don't think because you would have to carry a pack around greater than your weight - maybe if you tied yourself to the pack, which was being carried by a sherpa :D

Just a joke, dude.
The only way to carry enough gas to lift me would be to tap into my ass after a midnight mexican burrito bender.