First of a SIX part series up today
http://projects.nytimes.com/2012/sno...t=tunnel-creek
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First of a SIX part series up today
http://projects.nytimes.com/2012/sno...t=tunnel-creek
Komo, you might want to repost in one of the more heavily trafficked forums. Well worth reading.
The entire article is up - very sad but very well done.
The NY Times is the one newspaper that actually understands how to take advantage of the internet - very cool presentation for that article with the transitions between pages.
Oh nice, I hadn't noticed looking forward to reading the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by natew08
Agreed on the sad but well done too.
Passthedutchie, Good idea, thanks for cross-posting it there
I am going to have to Re Read part two, I reached a saturation level.
Very good.
This along with Megans Article tells quite a story. The Stevens Pass History and the Train burials brings a new depth to the story.
Ongoing discussion in the original thread as well.
Great article though. Did the other parts just go up? I could've sworn they weren't live earlier today...
Its strange to read this longer version, with side bar thoughts, video and pictures.
after having read the Megan Michelson article.
With the growing backcountry skiing population this is a must read.
Addition
I have now gone through the whole thing. I lost it when I played the 911 call getting the names of the victims’.
When I read it this morning, the end said something like, "next part coming soon." Now if you scroll to the bottom, all of the parts are active links at the top.
The 10 minute video is a tough watch. I was not dry eyed by the end.
Very well done. I sent the link to my entire staff this morning.
The multi-media aspect was really well done.
The description of Jim Jack after being extricated was a sobering reminder of the trauma aspect.
Thanks for posting, well done piece.
A well done article that will tell the story well beyond the small numbers of folks who read buff books like Powder or find their way onto TGR. It should be very sobering to the casual skier and to the off piste aspirant. Here is a (too) large group of very experienced off piste skiers doing something that should have been put off for another day and not taking all the necessary steps to make it a safe as possible. There was no leader. Though the comments were that it was supposed to be a mellow backside run, no one took charge to count heads, evaluate and explain the route, or enforce standard safe skiing practices. Plus that is way too many people to put into those kinds of snow and slope conditions and the group was experienced enough to know that. It also disturbing to read that several people had a bad feeling about the situation at numerous times, yet no one was willing to voice an opinion for fear of being "that guy" who would suck the fun out of a great powder day. One of the lessons is that it's okay to be a chicken even when the alpha dogs are ready to run. I have much more respect for a leader who says, let's not press our luck. I've turned around many times (on the advice of a guide) when things don't seem quite right and I hope that I always have the sense to do that.
It is tragic that lives were lost and families were devastated. Hopefully lessons have been learned and now with the story told to a larger audience that similar mistakes will be avoided and disasters averted.
I do question why one of the skiers had his transceiver in his backpack. I was always told to keep it strapped on at all times. A slide can rip off a pack and there's not much upside in having your pack dug out when you're still buried.
A well done piece that is a must read for everyone who ventures into uncontrolled conditions.
It's been snowing up there a lot lately. Temps are near thawing in the mid day.
I saw an inflatable avalanche survival collar that make airspace in front and to the sides if you get covered. Looks better than the backpack inflation devices which seem mostly behind you.
I wondered if you'd get it wrapped around your face after tumbling a bit, or if it had enough power to move heavy snow.
Everyone should watch. Well done and sobering.Quote:
Originally Posted by teleee
Hey, check out the trauma to those who did not make it. Check out the trauma to Saugstad. There are products that actually do something; the rest appear to be false piece of mind. She walked away from that and there is one reason why.Quote:
Originally Posted by tryhard
That's an incredible article; so well recorded, documented and put into words. It really puts into perspective that regardless of the danger that we all want such a day to work out: the odds are it will. But what a gamble...I tell you, I needed this.
Sizzler, an excellent point about Saugstad that I've been pondering as well. She went for the exact same huge ride as those that died due to trauma and she walked away. Was she just she just lucky (seems unlikely) or did the airbag prevent the traumatic injuries. I made the decision to purchase an airbag pack as a result of this incident and many of my ski buddies have claimed it won't do me much good in the PNW since so much skiing and avy slopes runs through treed areas. Seems like something that should be explored.
I've finally been able to collect my thoughts after reading this article. The article was truly an amazing piece of work from both the author and the design team at the Times. So often these avalanche incidents are covered inaccurately and at a surface sensational level by the media and the coverage does little to either educate or convey the spirit of how and why we go out there in the first place. This leads to the general public to have a perception of backcountry skiers as little more than reckless daredevils. This article was both factually accurate and captured the humanity of the participants and failings of human nature that lead to this tragedy, something unfortunately often missing in journalism.
I was taking my Avy II just across the valley from Tunnel Creek a week and a half before the slide. After a few clear nights as part of our snow study we saw the growing surface hoar that the slide eventually released on and concluded that it would be an issue if it was loaded by further snowfall. It's been a reminder for me of two things, always stay "connected" to the snowpack as the season progresses. Even if you're not out there every day read the reports on a daily basis and get a feel for how things are developing as layers get buried.
Second and maybe more importantly is the group dynamic aspect of avy safety. Whenever I'm leading a group in the BC or am even just part of a group I need to create an environment where anyone in the group can feel comfortable expressing their concerns. If you claim you've never made a bad decision that someone should have second guessed then your just lying. One of the most telling quotes from the article is from Saugstad when she said that she hesitated to pull her airbag cord because she was afraid that she would be laughed at if it was a false alarm. That's from a bad ass pro skier, can you imagine how it was for the others in the group with less confidence.
Kudos to the Times for this amazing piece, it will be mandatory reading for my Avy I students.
Great comments and thoughts Nexus and Choucas and everyone esle so far. The Times really does deserve Kudos for this amazing in depth look into this accident.
Group dynamics, loss, grief, heuristic thought, it is all BC safety 101. Too bad what it takes to get people to react responsibly to getting better gear or taking a higher level or even level 1 class. This will become as or more important than " a dozen more turns" in getting the message of awareness out. I hope the Times keeps it available.
Stay safe, find a way to warn those young hikers with no packs and enjoy your life and friends over the holidays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate
I don't know. That was my reaction after initially reading the article. I know the jury is out on airbags and there is little question luck had to play a part in allowing her to avoid all the trees in the stand she was in when the avy struck, but the remaining 2000+ feet I believe was all airbag. It's nothing short of amazing she walked away from that.Quote:
Originally Posted by nexus6
Holy shit. The NYT dedicated this story its own section in today's paper, like 6-8 pages with a two page spread photo of Tunnel Creek.
Pick it up if you can.
Kudos to John Branch for making the effort to get smart about avalanche safety - best mainstream article I've seen.
When you read about the group dynamics, you just see the train wreck coming. Doesn't make it any less sad, particularly for the Brenan family.
No way to know how much Saugstad's survival was due to sheer luck vs the ABS - she ended up so close to Rudolph and Brenan, who had massive trauma, but she walked away. Did she bounce off stuff that broke the other three bodies? She was very lucky that the bags didnt puncture when she was flushed thru all the trees.
Tele- While she was quite disorientated throughout the slide she said she did bounce off a few trees but they felt small. She felt no direct blow and most of her contact with flotsam felt like the tops of trees or small trees. Her injuries ended up being minor but she did dislocate a few ribs and mildly tweaked her knee since one of her skis never came off.
While my wife was incredibly lucky, I believe the main reason she is here today is because of that ABS bag.
Thanks for chiming in, Alka. I almost wonder if the bag made her ride that much higher in the slide (as designed), and therefore when she glanced off trees, she was glancing off them higher up where the trunks aren't as thick. Vs. the other victims without an airbag who rode down lower in the debris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik
No real way to know for sure, but that kinda makes sense. Glad she's hear today. Can't imagine what you went through.
Edit- The NYT reporter touches on that idea in his reply to the fourth comment down under "NYT Replies" here: http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012...fall/comments/
Edit #2- I see Elyse responded there as well. There we go.
^^^Thanks for posting up Elyse's comments. Pretty compelling when you get it straight from the victim
It seems like more and more out of bounds avy deaths are due to trauma rather than asphyxiation these days. Does anyone know if there are any statistics showing this trend? Obviously it would be very difficult to make any real conclusions on this based on the small sample size and in this particular avalanche it sounds like it took almost 30 min to get to some of the victims, but they make it sounds like they died from trauma/compression asphyxiation (inability to move lungs).
That is quite the article! Well written.
1. In this instance, it was a 2500ft + ride through a terrain trap. Long rides and terrain traps both contribute to trauma. Deep burials in terrain traps as associated with compression asphyxiation.Quote:
Originally Posted by chatton18
2. In a more general sense, I think skiers are going for the gnar, exposing themselves to terrain traps, whether trees, rocks, cliffs, gullies etc that lead to more more trauma.
In this incident, I couldn't believe the line they were skiing in those conditions when looking at it on this article. As someone unfamiliar with the terrain, I always assumed this group was sticking to a less exposed line but it seems blatantly clear they were skiing a wide open avi prone line with serious terrain traps on a high risk days. The unique thing about this article was how it made you understand the mountain and routes skiers were choosing on this run. I will certainly consider possible slides from above when looking at old growth trees as a safety zone in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
I think the additional trauma is a combination of things.
1. People going into the backcountry TEND to have better gear that is easier to use and practice with it more than a few years ago which I'm guessing has resulted in more burial rescues than in the past. This is obviously a theory and I'm wondering if there is any statistical evidence suggesting this.
2. People are skiing more exposed terrain whether they realize it or not and are getting themselves into trouble because of it. If this is the case, shouldn't we be placing a greater emphasis on route finding these days?
these days? ALL days, ALWAYS, during times of elevated danger in and around avy terrain. proper route finding is A #1. always has been and will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by chatton18
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