Marker Bindings: Your Thoughts

My usual ski buddy prereleased for the 700th time today....the worst one was like a 10 footer to SUPER FLUFF landing, stomped, one of this skis just let go for no reason at all...skiing at 25mph into bumps with one ski scares me...


i mean I wont even let him follow me anymore....its scary knowing that at any moment his ski will just randomly self-eject and send him flying into me...


your thoughts on Markers?

why in the hell have they made bindings the same way for so long knowing they are the worst pieces of shit ever?

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Originally Posted by MOHSHSIHd

your thoughts on Markers?.....

.....they are the worst pieces of shit ever

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didnt you just answeryour own question??

i just wanna know how everyone else feels, and why so many people continue to buy markers...

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ghlight=marker
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ghlight=marker
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ghlight=marker
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ghlight=marker
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ghlight=marker

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~find0029/trout.gif

hey Sn8+JOHS stop being such an idiot.

Although everybody seems to trash Markers, I've used them (not exclusively) for a long time and never had any problems. I don't think they're any better than lots of other kinds but they don't seem to me to be any worse either. A lot of racers and marquee freeskiers seem to use them.

from a previous marker hating thread
i was on a lift one powder day as a single riding up with a two-some. i had just mounted a new pair of planks with some markers. the guys asked me if i minded if they smoked. i replied that i didn't. they proceeded to ask if i cared to partake. i enthusiasticly and greatfully said sure. "hey guy that we don't know. Please don't drop our pipe. it's our only one." mind you there was at least three feet of new snow. "no worries fellas. i'm like a pro and shit at this." so, as you probably figured by now, i dropped the pipe before i could even hit the slippery motherfucker. bottom line, markers are from satan and caused me to piss off some pot heads and prevent myself from getting stoned. fucking shitty craftsmanship if you ask me. they abound with negative karma :nonono2:

never mind... linked above do not read

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Originally Posted by NewHampie

A lot of racers and marquee freeskiers seem to use them.

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I might ski Markers if they paid me enough too.

I've got a pair on some volkls and I had some prereleases before I cranked the DIN up a couple notches. I haven't bought a pair since.

Everyone has there own opinions. As far as performance, I like both Salomon and Marker but lean towards Marker. This is because I've never had problems with them as far as ordering parts or handling warranties for our shop. When it comes to Salomon, it's always a bitch. Everyone I know skis on the Comp Frees and never have any problems. I've also never heard anything bad about Salomon 810's or 912's. My advice is to not listen to the guy who bitches about a companies entire line of bindings because he had a bad experience with them. No binding is perfect and they're GOING to come off when you don't want them too.

the phrase "Marker out" was even used in Aspen Extreme. What does that tell you?

There was a poster hanging in the back of the Swiss Valley ski shop three years ago in which one of those aforementioned Marker racers is airborn over a burm in a perfect tuck. If you look closely, you can see that his right ski has pre-released and he's about to be proper fucked on the landing.

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Originally Posted by ajdemo76

My advice is to not listen to the guy who bitches about a companies entire line of bindings because he had a bad experience with them.

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Who would you listen to then? The rep, the shops, and the athletes who make money of selling them? Certainly someone with first hand experience skiing on them wouldn't know anything...
Markers have an industry low amount of elasticity which means they're going to pre-release when they bounced around.

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Originally Posted by spats

Marker's design philosophy (low elastic travel) is wrong. All their complicated Piston BS is a doomed effort to mask an intrinsically flawed design. Check out any Marker toepiece: it's got about a million moving parts in it and weighs a ton. Then check out a Look Fulldrive or Salomon 997 toe: they're simple, they're light, and they work.

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Originally Posted by spats

The Marker buzz is that they have as little elastic travel as possible and it's better for your knees. Look's is the opposite: they have as much as possible and it's better for your knees. Both of them can't be right.

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Originally Posted by BakerBoy

...you haven't figured out yet that the less elastic travel a binding has, the worse it will be in crud/powder/anything non-hardpack? Sure, it might be better for your knees, but so is not skiing. Being able to kick your own toe out of a binding is rad and all, but it won't get you the ladies when you're skiing the lift line and you walk out on a turn, nevermind above an exposed cliff line or something.

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Originally Posted by FNG

Who would you listen to then? The rep, the shops, and the athletes who make money of selling them? Certainly someone with first hand experience skiing on them wouldn't know anything...
Markers have an industry low amount of elasticity which means they're going to pre-release when they bounced around.

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Dude... why are you on such a fricking crusade? Did Markers kill someone you know? Is it just to jump on the bandwagon with all the bashers here? Is it a feeble attempt at clawing your way to be the leader of Marker bashers?

Let people buy what they want.

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Originally Posted by scoober

Dude... why are you on such a fricking crusade? Did Markers kill someone you know? Is it just to jump on the bandwagon with all the bashers here? Is it a feeble attempt at clawing your way to be the leader of Marker bashers?

Let people buy what they want.

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In defense of FNG, I'm glad he is posting his opinion and backing up with (I believe to be) true facts supported by other maggots including Spats. Yeah, people can buy what they want, but this forum is given valuable insights on products that you may not necessarily get from a rep or a salesperson or a google search on the internet. I applaud you FNG!

Oh, and from experience, Markers do suck - don't buy them!

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Originally Posted by scoober

Dude... why are you on such a fricking crusade? Did Markers kill someone you know? Is it just to jump on the bandwagon with all the bashers here? Is it a feeble attempt at clawing your way to be the leader of Marker bashers?

Let people buy what they want.

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Liability isn't on Marker when their bindings release. (problem is, that's why you get hurt in the first place) Skiers like a binding that they can have confidence in when they're charging/hucking. Let's say you drop a cliff above exposure and your Marker pre-releases, then you beater over the exposure to your death.

Lame company.

MOGADISHO, use the searrch function, this has been covered several million times.

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Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

MOGADISHO, use the searrch function, this has been covered several million times.

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I'm not trying to start a thing here by any means, because this is basically what I'm getting at. I'm not sure why Marker even gets this much attention on the board anymore because any search will easily show the collective feelings of the board about Markers. And yet, any Marker thread will attract a handful of individuals who feel the urge and need to warn everyone of their shittiness.

Now, I am positive that those warnings are not 100% intended just to protect your fellow man.

I am proposing that it is possible that some are using the chance to bash on Markers as a chance to proclaim their "coreness" because they are aware of the very reasons you listed. We've all seen evidence of some great skiers on this board, but I still think it is safe to say that the majority are not dropping cliffs into exposed, no-fall situations. I know I'm not.

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Originally Posted by scoober

I'm not trying to start a thing here by any means, because this is basically what I'm getting at. I'm not sure why Marker even gets this much attention on the board anymore because any search will easily show the collective feelings of the board about Markers. And yet, any Marker thread will attract a handful of individuals who feel the urge and need to warn everyone of their shittiness.

Now, I am positive that those warnings are not 100% intended just to protect your fellow man.

I am proposing that it is possible that some are using the chance to bash on Markers as a chance to proclaim their "coreness" because they are aware of the very reasons you listed. We've all seen evidence of some great skiers on this board, but I still think it is safe to say that the majority are not dropping cliffs into exposed, no-fall situations. I know I'm not.

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I guess your point is that some people might have vicarious motives for bashing markers. That might or might not be true. But it really doesn't matter. In terms of finding a place where information is likely to be unbiased, I can't think of a better place than here. And also repetition of this message makes it go home so much more. Your point that many skiers don't really need solid reliable, bindings isn't a particularly good one.

Markers suck donkey balls.

I broke the toe of three different pairs of M51 SC's back in the day, and the heel tab off a pair of MRR's (same vintage.) Then the shop I worked in finally picked up Lange/Look/Dynastar. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by scoober

I am proposing that it is possible that some are using the chance to bash on Markers as a chance to proclaim their "coreness" because they are aware of the very reasons you listed. We've all seen evidence of some great skiers on this board, but I still think it is safe to say that the majority are not dropping cliffs into exposed, no-fall situations. I know I'm not.

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Scoober, think about it. If Markers with din to 16 cost $300 new, and Soly 916's are $300 new, we're attempting to give the consumer our opinion on the product, and keep people happy and skiing for many years.

My experence with M9.1's was terrible. The more I think about it, the more I think my fall over some exposed rocks and into a chute was due to a twisting toe release that NEVER would have happened with my current non-marker bindings. On a far less extreme note (since I'm far from "core") I had released when going somewhat fast on groomers, resulting in a nice tomahawking and if I was not wearing a helmet, would have resulted in a concussion. Another instance, I was setting up to take some photos during the Tahoe summit, made a jump turn from a standstill in a little heavy snow, released from both skis, and somersaulted into a tree well (landed right side up, thank god).

Unintentional release at any speed and in any exposure condition is dangerous to yourself and anyone around you. This is why I think markers suck.

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Originally Posted by DJSapp

Scoober, think about it. If Markers with din to 16 cost $300 new, and Soly 916's are $300 new, we're attempting to give the consumer our opinion on the product, and keep people happy and skiing for many years.

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I have major issues making myself clear... my bad.

I'm not advocating Markers by any means. If I am in the market for a high DIN binding there are definitely other brands that I will go with first.

Really what I am wondering is why the continuation of beating the proverbial dead horse? A search function will more than cover the board's collective feeling about Markers. Yet people still continue to post, and others still continue to stick their necks in and bitch and rant.

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Originally Posted by scoober

Yet people still continue to post, and others still continue to stick their necks in and bitch and rant.

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I ate a big red candle.

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Originally Posted by scoober

Really what I am wondering is why the continuation of beating the proverbial dead horse?

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They still make bindings that suck, we still bitch. It's a vicious cycle.

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Originally Posted by DJSapp

They still make bindings that suck, we still bitch. It's a vicious cycle.

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God Bless America.

I'm done.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, and I'm knocking on wood as I speak, but I haven't pre-released out of a Marker in the last 5 years.
Maybe I've been lucky, I don't know....... but I had a pair of M91's or whatever they were called then,... with the Logic toepiece (circa '95 or so... the 14 din ones). I pre-released ALL THE TIME. I'm personally convinced that the problem is fixed.
Does any one have any first hand stories of problems with CURRENT Markers?

OK I'm not a Marker fan except that their speedpoints are the easiest demosystem around for rental techs...

but since everyone has already pointed out all the numerous reasons markers suck (ie breakage and prereleasing) I thought I'd add in a few positives:

1. Markers don't give two shits about snow on the bottom of your boots (compared to other companies like say Salomon).

2. Marker prereleasing is exacerbated by incorrect forward pressure (which is in turn exacerbated by ski flex) so:
A The marker motion system (piston or glide rail) reduces prereleases by reducing forward pressure changes during ski flex
B Make sure the forward pressure is spot on to reduce marker prereleases.

3. The Marker two piece heel on most of their higher end bindings (M1000s and above) is the easiest cocking heel on the market... nice for clicking back in in soft snow after prereleasing

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Originally Posted by scoober

Dude... why are you on such a fricking crusade? Did Markers kill someone you know? Is it just to jump on the bandwagon with all the bashers here? Is it a feeble attempt at clawing your way to be the leader of Marker bashers?

Let people buy what they want.

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I posted the well stated opinions of others as well as a comical anectdote of my own. Don't read too much into it.

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Originally Posted by SPLISHSLASH

your thoughts on Markers?

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And I was under the impression that the entire point of this thread was to ask me for my opinion. Silly me.

A pair of skis just came back to our shop the other day that I mounted in January. The entire toe looked like it just exploded. The customer said it happened when he landed in the park. The binding was a Salomon 912. Shit happens to all bindings but it doesn't mean all they make is shit.

4 seasons on marker ti 1200 and no issues. I do really like the way they make the ski feel - snappy yet with smooth rebound. I had a couple recent premature releases for no particular reason on steep bumps which quite obviously blows but my din is set low relative to the terrain. I do like the logic that drives Looks rotating heel.

I've used Markers for 20+ years without any pre-release issues. I'm no extreme skier, but I get around enough to scare myself from time to time.
In fact, I'm going to put a pair of Comp 14.0s on my new BRO Models - Surely no one (read everyone) will hate on me for that kind of blasphemy, but I don't really give a rat's ass. Ski on what you wanna ski on where you wanna ski on it at. Now how's that for some grammar?

JONG

OK, since this has turned into a Marker thread...

I have Markers on 2 sets of skis (old M51 demo binders, new M1000s); they look like the forward pressure adjusts in the same way. What is the proper method to adjust forward pressure on Markers? (I searched, didn't find anything.)

Gracias.

-Karl

When the forward pressure is right, the head of the adjustment screw will be flush with the heel housing when you're clicked in. If anything, screw it in a click more, so the screw is slightly inside the housing.

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Originally Posted by yooper

When the forward pressure is right, the head of the adjustment screw will be flush with the heel housing when you're clicked in. If anything, screw it in a click more, so the screw is slightly inside the housing.

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So it's the same method as for Look bindings?

Also, what happens if you have too little forward pressure? (Boot slop, binding doesn't hold...?) OTOH, if there's too much forward pressure? (Won't release...?)

Thanks-
Karl

I was under the impression it was the groove on the screw (just below the head) and not the head of the screw that needed to be flush....

i had numerous pre-releases on my yellow markers 1200 eps but what scared me the most is the time they didn't release. that toe up release doesn't work for me in crud to pow conditions. the 1800 don't have any of that.

http://www.biglines.com/photos/pbpic4715.jpg


i am also selling a bunch of them for groomed conditions here and they work fine

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Originally Posted by focus

I was under the impression it was the groove on the screw (just below the head) and not the head of the screw that needed to be flush....

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My instruction manual for M51s says "To adjust the Forward Pressure on the heel turn the forward pressure screw (14) (with the boot in the system) until it is flush with the back of the heel housing."

That groove on the screw is for people who's DIN is 4.5 or lower. If you're above that, you're supposed to set it flush with the housing.

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Originally Posted by ajdemo76

That groove on the screw is for people who's DIN is 4.5 or lower. If you're above that, you're supposed to set it flush with the housing.

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oh. that's what i get for reading epicski.

I'm surprised you got an answer at Epicski other than, "leave binding adjustment to the professionals."

i had some 1400 piston controls mounted on my Volant Machete Sins. the din setting was set at 11. yesterday, i was skiing at Blue Mtn in PA. I skipped school, and they had around 6inches of fresh. anyway, i was skiing down one of their steepest runs-which isnt that steep at all-and im skiing down pretty fast but under control. anyway, there was this little bump and i went off it, and when i landed my bindings prereleased. and i ended up doing the biggest face plant ever, and it sucked. so, markers in my opinion suck and need work.