Drinking Age to 18 in VT!!!!!!!!!

This was front page in the SDSU Daily Aztec school paper today... Any VT mags know about this??

Legislator calls for younger drinking age
A Vermont lawmaker wants to give the state's 18-year-olds the legal right to consume alcohol
By Kelli Enger, Staff Writer
Published: Tuesday, February 15, 2005



A Vermont state legislator is arguing if an 18-year-old is old enough to go to war, he or she should be allowed to drink a beer.

State Legislator Richard Marron is fighting to lower Vermont's drinking age to 18.

If the law passes, Vermont would lose nearly $10 million from its federal transportation budget.

The proposed change has raised strong opposition from citizens who say lowering the state drinking age will encourage illicit binge drinking and drunk driving among younger citizens.

Historically, the drinking age in the United States has been set at 21 since Prohibition in the 1920s. During the '70s, 29 states lowered their drinking ages to 18, 19 or 20. This was during the Vietnam era when other civil rights, such as voting, were becoming available to 18-year-olds.

In 1984, under the Reagan administration, the Uniform Drinking Age Act was enacted. It threatened to reduce federal transportation funding to states that did not comply with the national drinking age of 21. By 1988, every state had re-adjusted its drinking age to comply.

Louie Holton, the owner of Louie's Pub in the Aztec Center, said he feels lowering the drinking age would help young adults better learn to socially drink.

"When I get people in here when they finally turn 21, they've been drinking for 3 or more years, but they don't know how to drink socially because they have been pounding beers in their apartments and dorms," he said.

Louie's Pub opened in 1978 to draw students to the newly opened student center and food court on the far end of campus. It was the first pub to open at any CSU campus.

Holton said by changing social norms and taking the taboo of underage drinking away, young adults would approach alcohol with more responsible attitudes.

"Hiding alcohol from people just makes them want to do it more," he said.

Louie's Pub strictly enforces the 21-year-old drinking age. Bartenders must complete identification training by the San Diego Police Department every semester. All persons under the age of 35 are carded, and ID scanners are used.

Marc Fox, crime prevention specialist for University Police, said lowering the drinking age in Vermont will increase the number of alcohol-related arrests and poses a risk to public safety.

"Vermont will see an increase in alcohol-related deaths because, in a sense, you are condoning (use) to somebody who maybe hasn't developed emotionally as much as they should," he said.

In 2003, University Police arrested 126 people for being drunk in public, 203 for minor in possession of alcohol and 115 for driving under the influence.

In the residence halls, there were 491 disciplinary actions filed involving alcohol.

Fox said he feels these numbers would increase dramatically if California were to ever lower its drinking age.

"Generally, the number of alcohol-related offenses is proportionately higher for incoming freshmen than it is for sophomores, juniors and seniors," he said.

According to www.madd.com, more than 17,400 people died in alcohol-related car crashes in 2002. That's one person every half hour.

In Vermont, opponents of the proposed lowering of the drinking age fear the state will see a dramatic increase in alcohol-related deaths. Supporters feel because 18-year-olds can vote, get married, drive, enter into contracts and join the army, they should be allowed to drink alcohol.

Marketing sophomore Carli Glines said although 18-year-olds should be allowed to vote and join the Army, they are not responsible enough to legally drink.

"They are totally different issues," she said. "Voting is political and drinking is social. Drinking impairs your mental ability, while voting doesn't. And with the military situation, I think that's also a personal choice."

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FINALLY!!! I do agree that, as an 18 yr old, my generation will be somewhat of a transition generation and we have grown up drinkin ourselves into a stupor so if the legal age was dropped it would be tough for a while - the transition needs to be gradual but its absolutely ridiculous that we can go die for our country and be trained killers but not legally sit down and have a fuckin beer at a bar! When my dad was in Vietnam he had guys that he fought with that killed other people for their country and when they got back stateside with their fellow soldiers they couldnt walk into a bar with them and have a drink. Hopefully this will pass and will start to spread thoughout the rest of the nation..

It won't happen, too many conservatives.

I believe they lose federal highway funding or something like that if they lower it...

it wont happen. two many new jorkers, new hampsters and massholes.

It'll never happen. They certainly wouldn't lower it right from 21 down to 18. They'll have to lower it to 20 for a few years, then down to 19 for a few more years, then 18. That's the only way it would happen.

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Originally Posted by cmsummit

It'll never happen. They certainly wouldn't lower it right from 21 down to 18. They'll have to lower it to 20 for a few years, then down to 19 for a few more years, then 18. That's the only way it would happen.

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Agreed, a progressive change is absolutely the only possibility of legislation like that passing. However, due to the implications on that state's federal funding, this argument is nonsense. If the state stands to lose a substantial amount of money from the change, then you can be sure they have no desire to even pursue this. If somehow the (currently) underage drinkers consumed enough to offset that difference, then I suppose that might make a difference. But honestly, that state will not see in excess of $10 million in revenue from lowering the drinking age. Still, if there was an opportunity to nullify the cut in federal funding, far too much opposition would prevent any change.

On a side note, it does seem that the socially acceptable drinking age tends to range closer to 18 (once people enter college it is nearly assumed they drink, or at least that the majority of their peers do, and it seems generally accepted).

It won't happen. It's the same reason they raised it to 21 from 18 in the first place, $10 million in highway funds. If your a politician you aren't going to pass a bill that would benefit a group that doesn't really vote in large numbers and be forced to raise taxes on everyone else.

They could perhaps negate the cost by increasing taxes on alcohol for 18-20 year olds.

I think there is a problem with the law is out of line with generally accepted social norms. College students especially tend to be in a bind with this. They often cannot have a normal social life without at least moderate drinking involved. The number of people actually prosecuted per offense is miniscule. The result is that the 18-20 year olds who do get MIPs are really being victimized.

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Vermont will see an increase in alcohol-related deaths because, in a sense, you are condoning (use) to somebody who maybe hasn't developed emotionally as much as they should," he said.

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Its been my general experience that if someone isnt mature enough to handle alcohol by 18, they never will be. I know 16 year olds who are more responsible with alcohol than 40 year olds.

I would also argue that the only thing the 21 drinking age does is prohibit responsible drinking by people under 21. Your average college student has absolutely no trouble getting acess to alcohol in binge drinking situations. However, that stame student would not be able to order a glass of wine with dinner.

That said, I dont think it will happen. 18-20 year olds have not had a strong lobby since vietnam.

I agree - it should be 18 http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol-info...inkingAge.html

It will never happen. If it does it will be changed after the first death of NY or NH kids driving home drunk on some twisty turn road. Never Never Never...

i agree i think that you should be able to drink at 18 in germany i think the drinking age is 16 if your parents buy it for you
i dont think that is all that big deal most people start to drink way before 18 anyway my friends were all getting wasted when they were like 15 but it will never happen because there are too many conservative fucks out there that feel that the way they think is the one and only way to think and if you think differently than your a commie pinko bastard
thats what i think but im just a fat stoner what do i know

I love Canada.

Now that I've reached a ripe old age of 28, I think they should raise the drinking age everywhere :the_finge

i dont care, bars are expensive. ill stick to my case of pbr bought with a fake and then enjoy the unbeatable atmosphere of a college party.

the mip does kinda chap my ass though, fucking stupid how a harmless college student drinking at a friends house can be treated like a criminal.

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Originally Posted by house

i dont care, bars are expensive. ill stick to my case of pbr bought with a fake and then enjoy the unbeatable atmosphere of a college party.

the mip does kinda chap my ass though, fucking stupid how a harmless college student drinking at a friends house can be treated like a criminal.

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Paying a $100 fine isn't exactly hard time. however, as with all drinking laws there is quite the revenue stream to the state for prosecuting them. these laws keep more than a few worthless state employees employed.

however, house if you get into the fine art of the fake ID production biz, you'll be able to purchase all the PBR a young man could hope for. why should the government and big business be the only ones to profit from this injustice?

I'm not sure if I'm right, but states will only lose that federal transportation if they lower the age that you can buy alcohol. Louisiana's legal drinking age is 18, but you have to be 21 to buy alcohol. I'm not positive about all this. It's just something I remeber hearing.
Also, about conservatives. I'm conservative, and my conservative friends and I don't care if people drink. All I am conscerned about is drunk driving. So not all conservatives are totally against it.

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Originally Posted by thephatkid

i agree i think that you should be able to drink at 18 in germany i think the drinking age is 16 if your parents buy it for you
i dont think that is all that big deal most people start to drink way before 18 anyway my friends were all getting wasted when they were like 15 but it will never happen because there are too many conservative fucks out there that feel that the way they think is the one and only way to think and if you think differently than your a commie pinko bastard
thats what i think but im just a fat stoner what do i know

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Phatkid,
In my few trips to Europe, I found that the drinking age was essentially non-existent. My experience in Salzburg on New Year's Eve was an eye-opener to say the least...I was (at the age of 15 or 16) able to enjoy a couple of beers while watching a show in a town square. I can only imagine the littany of charges that could bring here (i.e. mip, open container in public). There is a stark difference however between youth drinking culture in Europe and the United States, or at least that is what I've observed. It is socially acceptable to drink reasonable quantities at nearly any age in Europe, and thus, alcohol isn't some mystifying, forbidden pleasure as it is for American youth (as cheesy as it may sound). I'm not sure how the binge drinking compares in Europe to the states, because in my opinion most people enjoy being drunk, and there was plenty of drunkenness to witness. One of the most noticeable differences was the use of public transportation. Ever look at a bar in this country? Parking lots at bars sometimes rival that of local supermarkets, and you can bet your ass the majority of the people sitting at the bar inside drove themselves there, and thats exactly how they're getting home. In Europe, I found bars without parking lots, with taxis lined up outside, and often within walking distance of buses and trains.

Enough typing for me, an Euro-mags or those with more euro experience feel free to elaborate or prove me wrong.

Here is something many of you do not know. When you are in the military you can drink beer in any enlisted club. Even if you are 16 years old and your parents signed the age waiver. You can drink a shot of whiskey if someone in the military over the age of 21 buys it for you in those clubs.

This arguement has been used for a long time. I'm tired of it. If you are in the suck, then yes you deserved to have a beer. But take heed that is also in a very controlled enviorment. And the barracks is just around the corner. No driving.

And just some more info. If you are in the military and get charged with DUI by the local police. Well guess what. You are also going to get charge under the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice). And not charged under just one offense under the UCMJ either. So after you get done paying your large civilian fine and jail time. Guess what. You get to start your military time in the brig. And pay a higher fine. Like confined to barracks for 90 days. Reduction in rank and pay to private. Oh and loss of $200 for 3 months.

Why do you think that military bases have so many taxi's positioned all over.

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Originally Posted by TJ.Brk

And just some more info. If you are in the military and get charged with DUI by the local police. Well guess what. You are also going to get charge under the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice). And not charged under just one offense under the UCMJ either. So after you get done paying your large civilian fine and jail time. Guess what. You get to start your military time in the brig. And pay a higher fine. Like confined to barracks for 90 days. Reduction in rank and pay to private. Oh and loss of $200 for 3 months.

Why do you think that military bases have so many taxi's positioned all over.

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One thing to keep in mind, in many cases (clearly not all), a military ID goes a long way. A kid I went to school with should have been arrested for being an asshole, and very nearly was until he told the officer he was in the marines. A friend of mine, also in the Marines, was pulled over for minor in possession, minor transporting, and driving under the influence. He gave the officer his military ID, and miraculously his car was impounded and no further actions were taken. Without that ID, you can be most certain he would've had a lovely DUI on his record. Just some more food for thought.

I am still underage myself by the way, and a change in the law would not change my personal drinking habits in any way whatsoever. This is mainly due to very loose enforcement of alcohol related laws, with the exception of DUI. Although I avoid situations where I could potentially be arrested for drinking, I'm not overly concerned with a MIP charge, most are thrown out or continued 6 months without a finding....anyhow, *knock on wood* (not looking to be arrested anytime soon).

just when I thought I knew where to go to college VT throws this curveball

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Originally Posted by TJ.Brk

Here is something many of you do not know. When you are in the military you can drink beer in any enlisted club. Even if you are 16 years old and your parents signed the age waiver. You can drink a shot of whiskey if someone in the military over the age of 21 buys it for you in those clubs.

This arguement has been used for a long time. I'm tired of it. If you are in the suck, then yes you deserved to have a beer. But take heed that is also in a very controlled enviorment. And the barracks is just around the corner. No driving.

And just some more info. If you are in the military and get charged with DUI by the local police. Well guess what. You are also going to get charge under the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice). And not charged under just one offense under the UCMJ either. So after you get done paying your large civilian fine and jail time. Guess what. You get to start your military time in the brig. And pay a higher fine. Like confined to barracks for 90 days. Reduction in rank and pay to private. Oh and loss of $200 for 3 months.

Why do you think that military bases have so many taxi's positioned all over.

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How long ago where you in TJ, I got out of the army in 2003 and it wasn't kosher for anyone to be drinking underage on post, even in the barracks, at least that was the official stance, that never stoped me from buying a beer for one of my joes.

If you can be sent to war ,to kill and be killed for your country,you should be able drink.

16 for drinking, 18 for driving - thats how it is in Germany and I think it's perfect. You know how to handle alcohol before you learn to drive. Are there any more alcohol related accidents in Germany? No. Let the sixteen year olds drink and after a while they won't even consider it important anymore.

I highly doubt that that would ever happen... but it'd be sweet (esp. if I go to UVM....)

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Originally Posted by -D-

16 for drinking, 18 for driving - thats how it is in Germany and I think it's perfect. You know how to handle alcohol before you learn to drive. Are there any more alcohol related accidents in Germany? No. Let the sixteen year olds drink and after a while they won't even consider it important anymore.

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Their culture (and most of Europe) also has a tremendously different view on alcoholic beverages than people in the US do.

You can't just say "well its this age in this country" because of fundamental age old differences.

It would never work here.

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Originally Posted by thephatkid

it will never happen because there are too many conservative fucks out there that feel that the way they think is the one and only way to think and if you think differently than your a commie pinko bastard

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dude, im not either a conservative or a liberal but actually in my experiences liberals have been much less acceptant to others opinions... By saying "conservative fucks" and insulting conservatives you show right there that you dont respect their opinions. you dont have to agree with their opinions but you should respect everyones opinion.

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Originally Posted by likwid

Their culture (and most of Europe) also has a tremendously different view on alcoholic beverages than people in the US do.

You can't just say "well its this age in this country" because of fundamental age old differences.

It would never work here.

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thats because our society treats alcohol and drinking, especially with young people, differently than in europe. we have for a long time and thats where we went wrong. with time it could change with the right steps.