Another appliance thread: fixing a dishwasher

So, for a bunch a dentists you guys were useful on this appliance thread and I actually haven't burned the house down, yet.

The dishwasher broke down the other day. I told her to get her shit together and quit whining but to no avail.

So, I bought a "new" one on CL and installed it. The entire extent of my knowledge is derived from installation, i.e. the thing needs power, so I hard wired it in, the thing needs water to go in, so I hooked up that hose, the thing needs to expel the shit, so I hooked up that hose.

It's a Kenmore Elite. On the facade, there are two indicator lights. One says "sensing" and one says "cleaning." I pick my cycle, hit start, and the countdown timer shows 97 minutes. The "sensing" light comes after a few seconds and then the "cleaning" light pops on and the cycle begins. After a few minutes, the light shifts back to "sensing," the noise/cycle seems to continue and the countdown stalls. It stays like this for quite awhile.

If I leave it simply run (for way more than 97 minutes as it oscillates between "sensing" and "cleaning"), it will have standing water in it when I open it with moderately clean dishes. It also smells musty and unclean.

- I have checked the filter, doesnt seem to be any issue there;
- Some research seems to indicate that the "pressure switch" may be FUBAR. Sound reasonable?
- If I run a simple, quick ten minute rinse cycle, I have no issues whatsoever. That must mean something, being that it is a simple cycle, no?
- What is my unit trying to do while it is "sensing?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by commonlaw

So, for a bunch a dentists you guys were useful on this appliance thread and I actually haven't burned the house down, yet.

The dishwasher broke down the other day. I told her to get her shit together and quit whining but to no avail.

So, I bought a "new" one on CL and installed it. The entire extent of my knowledge is derived from installation, i.e. the thing needs power, so I hard wired it in, the thing needs water to go in, so I hooked up that hose, the thing needs to expel the shit, so I hooked up that hose.

It's a Kenmore Elite. On the facade, there are two indicator lights. One says "sensing" and one says "cleaning." I pick my cycle, hit start, and the countdown timer shows 97 minutes. The "sensing" light comes after a few seconds and then the "cleaning" light pops on and the cycle begins. After a few minutes, the light shifts back to "sensing," the noise/cycle seems to continue and the countdown stalls. It stays like this for quite awhile.

If I leave it simply run (for way more than 97 minutes as it oscillates between "sensing" and "cleaning"), it will have standing water in it when I open it with moderately clean dishes. It also smells musty and unclean.

- I have checked the filter, doesnt seem to be any issue there;
- Some research seems to indicate that the "pressure switch" may be FUBAR. Sound reasonable?
- If I run a simple, quick ten minute rinse cycle, I have no issues whatsoever. That must mean something, being that it is a simple cycle, no?
- What is my unit trying to do while it is "sensing?"

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It is trying to sense if you grabbed your ankles firmly enough when you bought this "new" off CL. Sorry, get your shizzle back asap.

Did a new dishwasher in the Spring. Maybe the sensing is determining how dirty the dishes are and therefore how long it will run, or could also be something to do with the water temperature- there are sensors to make sure the water is hot enough. Our new one has a series of steps it goes through to determine how long to run (even in Normal Wash).

If it is a water temperature issue- try running the hot water on the sink until it if flowing steady hot and see if it makes any difference by strating the dishwasher with hot water readily available.

Otherwise- model and maybe contact the source of this CL and see what the "story" is on the faulty equipment they sold.

Could be you didn't install a big enough water line. If it's sensing dirty dishes the cycle will stay on/

made the pump sound like it was dying and stuff wasn't getting clean.



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Appliance hell here up narth

my new Bosch DW was sposed to be the best thing since sliced bread but it has been busted for 3 weeks with an E23 code, so call Bosch ( who are terrible ) , on warranty they send out buddy who is fine, he drives 6 hrs total to replace first a pump and then both the boards and no difference

so as a recovering HW guy I know ever thing buddy is going thru cuz thats what I did for 30 yars, so we trade jokes and anecdotes AND i ask buddy the contracter how much are you charging Bosch for each call, apparently its around 400$ + parts for each visit on an 839$ DW on which he replaced all the recommended stuff and it didnt fix it , so if he comes back its gona be 1200 and we still don't know if that will fix it on that one nd i doubt it will

SO after the long weekend I'm gona recommend to Bosch they just give me a new DW

And then the tennants washing M/C sounds like it gona takeoff, I think it might be working but i told her I would try to find one on FB marketplace

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Art Shirk

- What is my unit trying to do while it is "sensing?"

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Get you a divorce?

so buddy replaces both boards/ the drain pump/ the main pump which is everything and no difference so that is the only 4 parts it can be and then we will be into the wiring

so he gets on the phone with the bosch tech support and they tell him according to the numbers he has read out on the parts, the machine came from the factory with the wrong P/N's even tho it ran fine for almost a year with the wrong parts, the parts hehad put in from a supplier in Vancover the first time were also the wrong p/ns, apparently the impedance is critical but WTF its a bosch ?!

so he ordered all new parts from bosch and changed both motors at the same time in case one of them was taking out the other and its now running !

but some interesting side stuff talking to the tech, alot of parts had been made by small mfgers but post covid some of those mfgers just disappeared so that is why there are more bad parts than ever before and he has been getting a lot of bad parts

the bosch tech guys told him DO use a rinsing agent cuz it helps lubricates the motors in the m/c, I never use it and i didnt know that but I will from now on

Tech guy told me if you use those DW detergent pods just thro them in the bottom of the m/c don't put them in the dispenser cuz the DW pod membrane can gum up the dispenser so yer better off letting them melt in the bottom of the DW, so I tried it yesturday and the dishes came very clean. I had been using DW pods cuz the old kitchenaid didn't clean all that well but he said try just using the cheapest powdered detergent which i am gona do cuz the bosch cleans SO well

he said the pod membrane might give you problems if you are on septic especialy the pods for clothes washing, I don't use them and i'm not on septic so no worries for me, in any case I'm gona quit pods

My washer in the rental limped thru until i could find a matching Amana ( whirlpool ) washer & dryer on FB for only 400$ so I replaced them both, gave the old units to guy who has been out of work or a year he was pretty happy, my tennant is very happy with her new setup

so 2 months later I'm out of appliance hell !

I'm still using my Jenn-Air dishwasher from 1989. It's only failed twice. The first failure was a power lead where it enters the door. Years of flexing as the door open and closes wore it out. A wire crimp and good as new.

The second failure was an intermittent water valve. The valve is long discontinued but the parts guy found a similar valve with a different mounting bracket. A little work with an angle grinder and I'm good for another 30 years.

At least the old appliances use standard parts that are easy to diagnose and replace.

I swear there is an untapped market for 1970s/80s appliances for their retro chic appeal and more importantly, the fact they will never fucking die - unlike the shit made now that burns out if you fart near it

Bosch offered to replace the DW but if it came with the wrong parts and i at least now know this unit now has the right parts SO I think I will just stick with what I know is correct

Those Amana units I got cheap are top loading so probably old tech, pretty happy wqith that

That old stuff is really old now so if you got it keep using it but no way I would buy it used

I'm sure it had the right parts -- it's the database that's screwed up. I bought a Kenmore stove (for a club cabin) but when I needed parts the model number brought up a fridge. At least the numbers on the individual parts were correct.

i'm not

the local tech read the pns out to the bosch support guy who told him they were the rong pn's,

more parts with the p/n's speced by bosh & ordered direct from bosch fixed it

this was a bosch dw not a kenmore stove

It's still odd that it would "have the wrong parts". Manufacturing is strictly controlled -- there's a parts list and the parts are delivered to some worker for assembly. It would take a big screwup for the wrong parts to get used. It's more likely that new parts superseded old parts. That's more common as manufacturers change suppliers or discontinue old parts or design new [better or cheaper] parts.

It's also possible that "supply chain issues" resulted in uncontrolled part substitution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow Dog

It's also possible that "supply chain issues" resulted in uncontrolled part substitution.

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I heard the Bosch tech support guy on speaker phone as they were reading out p/ns so thats ^^ my point

Bosch are considered the best DW's out there but if some wrong parts got used its gona be a problem, why it lasted 9 months who can say ?

SO we changed both the 2nd set of motors from bosch at the same time in case one was blowing the other which I have seen in computers

as the local tech was telling me post COVID he is getting more new defective parts than ever before due to supply chain issues, he gets most of his parts from reliable parts in Vangroovy and that is where he got the 1st set of parts that didn't work

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

as the local tech was telling me post COVID he is getting more new defective parts than ever before due to supply chain issues

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There’s a post COVID hangover working its way through appliance, plumbing, and electrical component manufacturers…

I have 32 open warranty claims on brand new, very expensive commercial kitchen equipment on a project I finished 6mos ago. Same project I am seeing atypical failure rates (10-20%) on auto sinks / auto toilets, pumps, electrified door hardware, controls hardware, etc… similar issues noted by my peer group nationwide…

If you’re in the market to upgrade appliances right now - strongly think about if you can wait a year or two or are willing to buy used (prepandemic) in lieu of new.


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come to think of it a mtnbike friend was telling me their brand new micro wave took 3 visits to fix and normaly micro waves never fuck up you just plug em in and they run forever

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

There’s a post COVID hangover working its way through appliance, plumbing, and electrical component manufacturers…

I have 32 open warranty claims on brand new, very expensive commercial kitchen equipment on a project I finished 6mos ago. Same project I am seeing atypical failure rates (10-20%) on auto sinks / auto toilets, pumps, electrified door hardware, controls hardware, etc… similar issues noted by my peer group nationwide…

If you’re in the market to upgrade appliances right now - strongly think about if you can wait a year or two or are willing to buy used (prepandemic) in lieu of new.


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Will the Houthis stop attacking shipping in the Red Sea in a year? Will the US Iran war be over? Supply and parts issues are the new normal.

No… you can get parts now… They are just shit.


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The tennant phones up yesturday and tells me the fridge is not working FUCK

So I look on the FB market place and see a nice looking used GE for only 300$ but its 3 hr drive OR I pay list locally for a new fridge SO jump in the truck

700$ for a fridge washer & dryer on FB is the way to go but you gotta hope what you want is available when you need it

So it was old shit but now thats the range hood, stove, washer, dryer, and now the fridge all replaced and I have run out of appliances to replace

Its like groundhog day

Slumlord chronicles


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She now has a newer fridge than mine , my old stove, my old range hood, a better newer washer & dryer, and I am undercharging her, but it covers all the expenses and then some. When you live uptop you gotta stay on top of things but i can see how a lot of renters don't bother to complain becuz the average slum lord doesn't fix anything

Good and bad news on the DW front, bad news is its still not fixed except now its an intermittent bug which is even harder for the tech to scope than a completely down m/c, the good news is Bosch gave me a new DW, I hope this is it for broken appliances

So I get Bosch Canada to mechanicaly replace the first DW and i get DW #2 from Bosch, it runs great for about a week and then its not working WTF eh ?

So buddy come back with all the parts, he replaces everything in DW #2 and its still not working, but then he figures out something is wrong with the drain cuz it works by running it off directly into the sink,

The thing is he had alwasy tested it by hooking up to the old drain which goes down somewhere into the basement behind a wall or sft but it wasn't completely blocked and we never actuly see it back-up, SO buddy tells me to run out and get a 1 & 1/2" DW ABS fitting to just splice into the kitchen sink drain and we plug off that old drain pipe which isnt really his job but he wants to be done with this ... problem fixed

So postmortem he figures the old style Kitchenaid ran forever but then something happened down there and after 9 months the overloading of the motor and intermitently plugged drain may have burnt out the drain motor ?

so all that wanking about, down for almost 3 months, parts repalcement and eventualy the entire DW for a poor but not entirely blocked drain

^^^
Reminds me a bit of an episode from the last millennia. After a tough weekend night out my friend eventually made his way back home on foot. Staggering up the stairs to his apartment he realises that he'll soon have to empty his stomach. Successfully inside the apartment he makes his way to the bathroom. As he nears the toilet seat, in the corner of his left eye he notices his gf brushing her teeth over the adjacent washstand. Anyways and without delay, happy to have reached his current goal, he barfs away...

Only to realize, he missed the little detail of opening the toilet seat first... His gf was not too impressed.

Moral of the story connected to the above: Make sure that the drain in question has capacity to receive whatever's coming!

i think you are reaching with that story and obviously your buddy should have puked out on the street

Our main problem was the intermitent drain cuz it did seem to be draining if there was no drain ( toilet seat down) that would have been an easy diagnosis, in any case buddy should have known the seat would be down

In retro spect there were misteaks made and I've gone down those same rabbit holes in the past, I'm glad it wasn't my job this time

Hey, buddy got the job done, and made it home safely. Albeit with consequences... :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

So I get Bosch Canada to mechanicaly replace the first DW and i get DW #2 from Bosch, it runs great for about a week and then its not working WTF eh ?

So buddy come back with all the parts, he replaces everything in DW #2 and its still not working, but then he figures out something is wrong with the drain cuz it works by running it off directly into the sink,

The thing is he had alwasy tested it by hooking up to the old drain which goes down somewhere into the basement behind a wall or sft but it wasn't completely blocked and we never actuly see it back-up, SO buddy tells me to run out and get a 1 & 1/2" DW ABS fitting to just splice into the kitchen sink drain and we plug off that old drain pipe which isnt really his job but he wants to be done with this ... problem fixed

So postmortem he figures the old style Kitchenaid ran forever but then something happened down there and after 9 months the overloading of the motor and intermitently plugged drain may have burnt out the drain motor ?

so all that wanking about, down for almost 3 months, parts repalcement and eventualy the entire DW for a poor but not entirely blocked drain

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Had something like that happen when we got our new dishwasher - it would periodically not complete a cycle because it couldn’t drain and would throw an error.

Tried taking it all apart multiple times, cleaning lines, etc.

Turns out a seed or something had gotten into the drain line and would periodically be forced up into the air gap which blocked everything off.

Been running good ever since that fucking thing got removed.

The old Kitchenaid ran literaly for decades in that same spot but things were breaking so buy the new bestest DW out there should be fine was my thinking but now I realize DIFFERENT from this experiance

service bro said the design at least on the Bosch product is that the pump will try to pass water in a somewhat lackadaisical manner ( compared to the old DW's ? ) until they time out and thro an error code, btw its the same pump in all Bosch models which clips in and out for a simple no tool replacement

so there is a screen in the bottom and then you can get down to the pump impeller which looks more like a conical gear that left me wondering how it could move water and so I found grapefruit pits and bits of spinach had made it past that screen to the impeller.

takeaways for the fixing a DW thread :

I don't want that stuff to get in there so i plan to do a better pre-clean with a stiff brush and the sink sprayer,

run a drying agent sounds like a good idea

Make sure you have a good drain, i don't know why the drain which was ok for decades was no longer adequate but only intermittently after 9 months and thru the intermittent errors so instead of wondering we just eliminated it and ran direclty into the sink drain which we know is good

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waxoff

^^^
Reminds me a bit of an episode from the last millennia. After a tough weekend night out my friend eventually made his way back home on foot. Staggering up the stairs to his apartment he realises that he'll soon have to empty his stomach. Successfully inside the apartment he makes his way to the bathroom. As he nears the toilet seat, in the corner of his left eye he notices his gf brushing her teeth over the adjacent washstand. Anyways and without delay, happy to have reached his current goal, he barfs away...

Only to realize, he missed the little detail of opening the toilet seat first... His gf was not too impressed.

Moral of the story connected to the above: Make sure that the drain in question has capacity to receive whatever's coming!

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Best story ever ^^^ keep this shit goin


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Our dishwasher stopped working because the guys that remodeled the kitchen didn't put the high drain loop back. (We kept the old dishwasher because it was working fine. I originally installed it myself.) I put the high loop back under the sink next to the DW rather than taping it to the back of the DW. It works find that way.

Fascinating stuff