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What with all the new companies coming out, Liberty, Armada, Prakjet, PMGear, 4frnt, god what else so many of them, will cheep skis be in the future? I mean like Snowboad cheepness, people can get good snowboards for under 100 bucks what makes it any different then cheep skis?
Thouhgts? Predictions? Flames?
Tech talk jong. and no you wont be able to buy bros for a $100 next year, so shut you piehole and stop making so many useless threads.
..........
Oh and good snowboards are still expensive.
Hey AKPM, why don't you buy two of those $100 snowboards and put some bindings on them. Then you would be just as cool as Mcshlonky :cool:
I actually think this is a good question (but it probably does belong in tech)Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey
The key to low prices is mass production.(among other things) Hand made skis and boards for that matter will cost more than the quickly made product. Now here comes a guess...snowboards may be outselling skis so more manufactures are putting out more product and competition is keeping the price low. To spin off here, since K2 is now using slave labor to manufacture their product, why aren't their skis cheaper?
My guess = The amount of materials required between a board and skis don't make up too much of the cost difference, but the labor and time to make them do. You buy two skis but only one board.
The Dollar is weak ... we won't see cheap anything for a while.
"To spin off here, since K2 is now using slave labor to manufacture their product, why aren't their skis cheaper?
BECAUSE THEY CAN!
I heard that the cost for K2 to make a pair of skis in China is somewhere around $7.00/ pair. If this is the case, the only explinaition for jacked prices, is the market will bear the cost.
AKPM, ski prices won't come down because of more companies starting up, many of the start-ups will fail or be absorbed by other companies. Thus keeping the price steadily rising. I remember when a pair of boards and binders could be bought for around $400. and that wasn't that long ago.
I do believe that the market needs some leveling off. in gear prices as well as LIFT TICKET prices. what the jack shit is the deal with resorts charging better than $70 per day. now there is a good question.
Combination of factors, IMHO.
Firstly, as Indy says, because they can. If you had a choice of making $10 profit per ski or $400, which would you choose? Let's look at skis themselves : they're most definitely luxury items. One advantage for companies that make luxury items is that the appear to have a high intrinsic value, regardless (you could perhaps argue) of their production costs. Nike trainers are trainers, but (some) people will still fork out ridiculous amounts for them. Ski companies, I believe, are much in the same position : you don't want any old sticks, you want your 4FRNT BollocksHead or your Armada JibWank, or whatever they're called. I could be wrong on this front, but when Porsche starts making skis, it's for a reason.
Secondly, I disagree with your basic premise (Paragraphed below for clearer content).
The companies you've used as examples are all small. This, of course, meaning they can't take advantage of the economies of scale in the same way the bigger companies can (e.g. buying material in bulk, investment in highly efficient capital, etc.), so for a start their costs are high(er).
They're also relatively new, and so are likely still paying of their initial sunk costs, the purchase of machinery, the initial purchase or materials, R+D costs, etc. While they may want to sell good sticks at a knockdown price, their bank manager and investors will surely have a different opinion.
The materials used in ski production are, on the whole, quite specialised in themselves. There are only a small amount of PTex, Metal Edges etc. suppliers, and since their services are so depended upon they can charge quite a high price for the materials. The companies are, therefore, also under pressure from their suppliers, raising costs.
Then consider that those companies are quite cliquey and almost elitist, giving them a much smaller market (Maybe less so with the jib-sticks, but I think that could be said about PMGear) and, with smaller advertising budgets, their name doesn't often make it past people such as are found on here and NS, where people actually have an interest in skiing and ski culture, instead of seeing it as solely a recreational activity that you only really begin to think about on the plane to Aspen.
Now while this could all be bollocks, it mostly makes sense to me, and I'm sure there are many other reasons.
And last but not least, SPELL FUCKING CHECKER, you fucking ret.
edg
The more interesting question is whether direct sales models like PM gear can grow to become a significant presence in the industry. Assuming production capacity is not an issue, if PM can penetrate the mainstream ski press or generate significant grass roots publicity, will enough consumers mail order skis based solely on glowing reviews and positive vibes from google searches?
Oh, and AKPM, STFU!! Study the bike industry and rethink your question.
Cheap=CheepQuote:
Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey
Cheapness=Cheepness
You have a LONG way to go. Thats like second grade shit bro.
Motto of the industry is 'build it and they will pay'.
People who can pay $70 for a lift ticket can pay $1,200 for a pair of skis. The rest of us would probably just keep buying used or pro/shop forming.
Hmm. Market with small volume growth, companies want large sales growth. No, skis aren't going to get cheaper.
You can't buy a good snowboard for $100. AKPM, delete this thread. Seriously.
this sorta fits with this... the ski makers realize that most people aren't like the mags here who have quivers that make ski shops seem barren. most people buy a pair of skis and ski them for multiple seasons. knowing this, the companies realize that they may have repeat and loyal customers but only might get their buisness once every four years, if they ever see said customer's buisness again. this means that they want to hit you hard for profit when they get the chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f
Sorry, you're all wrong. I just got back from a trade show today and I saw 6 different twin tip models from two different companies that all have a suggested retail under $250. Sizes ranging from 138 to 170 with waist widths around 80mm, sintered bases and rockwell 48 thick edges. I'll try to scan some pics out of the catalogs tomorrow.
Actually guy, we were talking about skis that aren't designed to be skied by 11 year old kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover
They were actually kinda nice to tell you the truth. I don't know that they'd be my first choice for myself but the majority of skiers (outside of those here) should be able to appreciate them. Of course the stuff I liked for myself from AK Skis and Ogasaka all list between $750 and 900. The ones I liked best wholesale for $1700 so the chances of any of us getting a pair are pretty slim (I think).
And, I know a few 11 year olds that rip :p
You're not too far from the build of an 11 year old kid yourself, skinny boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by phUnk
I'll bet they were "team" skis tooQuote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover
That was unexpected.Quote:
Originally Posted by seldon
Thas funny.
You just called out by seldane.
I doubt it. The market for both skis and snowboards isn't growing very quickly. There's a significant amount of non-equipment costs involved in skiing, (e.g. lift tickets, travel & lodging for most people). I don't think lowering the cost of equipment by a few hundred bucks won't really expand the market for skiing THAT much. And that would be the only way for a low-cost volume ski producer to make money--by expanding the market to people who are not already skiing.
In addition, most of the ski companies are not based in the U.S., and nearly all skis are produced overseas. A weak dollar makes the chances of cheap skis in the U.S. even less likely.
EDIT: In fact, there was an article in yesterday's WSJ that talked about how ski companies are concentrating on the high-end, designer market and introducing more integrated ski-binding systems in search for higher profit margins.
By the way who here pays retail for their equipment anyway. I personally have never paid full price for a pair of boards and I have bought new rides almost every season for the last 24 years. If skis are too expensive, then look at swaps, ebay and elsewhere, you will find good new equipment for a fair price.
I'm so creative I can hardly stand it myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by phUnk