http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04...700E-camcorder
Big ass sensor with weird 4k 'ready' designation.
But more importantly, finally some resolution with some useful overcranking.
Someone needs to explain to me why avchd shows up as the compression format for a camera like this. This ain't a helmet camera.
That's only for the built-in Memory Stick slot. For Run & Gun shooting they really want you to pony up for their external HDD recorder that conveniently mounts to the back. For "normal" tripod-based shooting you can hook up any HD-SDI recorder via a BNC cable.
Sorta the modern version of the Soviet Walkman of the 70's. Why not make a full-sized camera with the same specs and have a card-based recorder built in?
Yeah I still don't know why they did that. It's firmly in the ENG size/portability realm and the high frame rates scream 'sports'.........but then you gotta carry peripherals to acquire in anything you'd actually want to edit. For a 8-9k baseline kit, that's fuckin stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
You know sonys at all? Weren't the SxS cards recording in something useful from the EX1 line?
Hopefully one of the many firmware updates this thing is destined for will come up with something useful. How cumbersome are those sdi recorders?
Depends on the recorder. Panasonic makes a two-slot P2 recorder that's pretty small: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Memo.../dp/B002MXMRY0
The Flash recorders are very small: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-bro...uct-HXRFMU128/
Man if I could hook up that P2 recorder and record avc intra from a sony camera, I'd be sold! :D
FYI....
http://vimeo.com/40369782
I saw that.
The frames rates still make me want the camera (and I'll likely get it once it's in other peoples' hands for a while to point out the bugs) but that footage mostly looks flat as shit to me.
It's impossible to tell what the camera footage looks like through diferent camera settings though......low contrast, heavily desaturated stuff seems to be all the rage now.
Here's a more unified piece put together with one of the prototypes.
http://vimeo.com/40277885
Looks like all the important stuff is there and none of the shit that comes with shooting with dlsrs. God I've been dreaming of the day a camera with good overcranking and detatachable lenses exists. :) So sick of the way slr footage looks.
He said that he shoots flat on purpose in that video... not sure if that's what you are saying.
I know nothing of video shooting. I just saw that and remembered you guys discussing it in this thread. I must admit tho, the high speed stuff was pretty dang cool...
That kicks some serious ass.
He did say he shoots flat on purpose. Bet there are other scene files available for more contrasty & saturated looks.
Yeah I've shot on an EX1 before and you can definitely manipulate the hell out of the 'look' of what gets saved. It's more important on this one since it's a crappy codec at a kind of crappy bit rate but I'd be surprised if you didn't have quite a bit of leeway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Pretty stoked on this thing from what I can find.
Can you guys explain to a video jong what "overcooking" means?
You mean overCRANKING?
If so that just means turning the lever that feeds the film faster so that you burn more frames of film per time period.
When played back it's what all the kids call 'slow motion'
Yeah I'm just a dumbass and watched the video with the sound off the first time. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by grskier
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
Shooting flat is for greater dynamic range when color correcting. Some idiots just shoot it and think that is what they are supposed to do. But shooting flatter images gives you more information to work with when manipulating your images in post. For people who want a baked in "look" from the camera, be my guest. But I'd prefer to grade everything myself and get exactly what I want. And that's not even getting into LUT's.Quote:
Originally Posted by grskier
Here's an explanation if you don't get it.
http://vimeo.com/37735019
Definitely a nice camera from Sony, although I think Blackmagic's little bombshell NAB announcement has put all the big manufacturers on notice. http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...ccinemacamera/
But why show footage that way, ungraded when demonstrating a new camera?Quote:
Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd
No one cares about the hazy 'ready for grading' look because it still doesn't tell you anything.
And my comments about that trendy desaturated look meant the final product......not prepping for future manipulation.
Definitely stoked to see that as well because it shows that the companies that could have been producing this, haven't.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiandbike
Not my bag with with limited frame rates but they're going sell a million of those and would be nuts not to follow up with a more capable camera in the near future.
to show people the type of dynamic range they can achieve with the camera.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
Those backlit surf shots did pretty well with it I guess.
What I really want to see is how that 4:2:0 avchd mess does with a tomato red t-shirt.
Anyway......buy one of these and tell me if it's any good :D
You'd have a point if he was shooting 4:4:4. As it is all the info is getting clipped in compression and it looks muddy if you try to add too much chroma or contrast in post. Good practice tho, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd
Yeah whatever. I'm buyin it anyway. :D
As you know Canon DSLR's don't shoot 4:4:4 and it is proven that shooting a flatter image still allows you to pull out information that would get clipped if shot with other modes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Quote:
Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd
Using things learned on dslrs to define normal practices on real video cameras hurts. But given this is probably a crappy 4:2:0 avchd output onto the sd cards I guess it is what it is.
Somebody at NAB slid a card in one of these and threw some .mts files up on the vimeo. I downloaded them and screwed around a little in premiere. They seem to hold up a little better than anything out of my 7d. The biggest thing is highlights roll off a little better without all the aliasing crap. It's there but not nearly as bad. The og files were pretty splotchy where things were blown out but you could actually pull them back......rarely have I been able to do that with my 7d
I'm just crossing my fingers that with the 4K capacity, a 4:2:2 10 bit 1080 or 2k image can be pulled.
Hey Tip: you ever pull the 'uncompressed' 1080i feed off the hd-sdi output on your panasonic hpx170? If so what do you use for a recorder? Is it worth doing if my output is always going to be 720/24p something? How tough is it to retain the weird frame rates like 48fps?
I learned this with RED way before DSLRs shot video. But the rule applies to any camera that "adds" sharpening, contrast, etc (ie, any digital camera).Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
I'm thinking the good thing about this being a real camera and not a shitty slr is that there's a lot more control over it. The ex1s are pretty good and taming or overdoing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd
Every time I pick up my hpx after shooting on the 7d for a while I just sit there going 'wtf was I thinking??'
If I could get other lenses and at least 60p at 1080 on my hpx, I wouldn't even be looking at other cameras.
^don't get me wrong... the DSLR is a tool. I would much rather be shooting on a real camera. I love the EX3. But since shooting isn't my career I'm not about to spend $8K+ for something I use occasionally. For me, a 7D or 5D2 are just dandy and has made me a little money on the side shooting video as well as my hobby of taking crappy pictures to make me happy. :D
Short answer is "no." Why record externally when the full 100mbps P2 is so awesome (plays very nice w/our AVID.) Besides, I may be wrong but to my knowledge the HPX170 is 720 native and up-converts internally to 1080i.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
No it's supposed to be a native 1080i camera. The idea is just to get around the compression.....even though it's minimal and pretty good. Most people who have tried it seem to prefer it but I have no idea what their delivery/frame rates are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Actually it tells a everything (*) what pros need to know. Good,flat, reference clips with a large dynamic range and you get a shitload better overview what the cam is capable of.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
Friends friend apparently got his hands on the blackmagics cam and he was quite blown away of the quality-to-price of the cam. The only thing he "complained" apparently was the complicated
layout for the onboard monitoring. For a bigger rig he wished that there would have been easier setup for a external 6" display and as it apparently is via the sdi output, there was some
issues with it. If I understood it right, they had to rig it via external black magic sdi box. dont know if it was due to some firmware stuff or whatnot, as normally there should not be any issues with that?
dont know if they were doing some on-the-fly-grading with it that way or why they were dicking around that way.
Interesting cam for sure, pity that I have to update my mkII for the mkIII or the 1D C in the coming months, otherwise the black magic would have been perfect cine body. atm I cant justify for having
2 eos bodies (primary & backup) AND a blackmagic for shooting cine only... or maybe I can..
I get what you and system are saying......but I still want to see some of it pushed in these 'demos'. That's something I've had a little bit of a problem with regarding sonys in the past. You can shoot all wonderful and neutral and then when you DO go to grade.......there's nothing there. There may be dynamic range from a mine pit to the sun but I want to see that COLOR is recorded and handled well. And a common theme I keep seeing more and more of is that people don't do a whole lot of grading and their final output ends up still kind of looking like that. It's like the teal and orange plague. Anyway......it's all good. There have been a bunch of people putting the files up online and I've gotten to play with them. I know what I need to know. I'll admit, color is where I still feel like I'm learning every time I sit down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathelmet
I haven't been too impressed with the mk3 video stuff. Looks like essentially the same camera as the mk2. I'm trying to figure out how to get the scratch together just for a timelapse cam. A buddy keeps raving about how clean his night shots are at pretty high ISOs.
So you're mad that you're watching videos made my hacks? Maybe instead of hating on the camera you should be hating on the idiot behind the camera and NLE.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
Most of these dickholes uploading flat videos to YouTube did it because "Philip Bloom told me to shoot cinestyle" and they have zero understanding of WHY they should be shooting it and tr post processing involved afterwards to make it look good.
Not sure where you got that. That's basically what I've been trying to say this whole time :DQuote:
Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd
Not hating on the camera at all. I just want to see someone shoot and finalize the way I would ;)