http://teton.outerlocal.com/skiing/r...g-in-gtnp-news
Tracking this, hoping for a positive outcome...
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http://teton.outerlocal.com/skiing/r...g-in-gtnp-news
Tracking this, hoping for a positive outcome...
Sounds like they may have been located.
http://jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=8329
Fuck. Hope they are okay and just having an epic.
Goddamnit, read that article after I posted.
This winter can go fuck itself.
Oh shit. hoping for good news.
fuck this shits sucks
+++ vibes and praying for a positive outcome
Hope this turns out OK.
With 2 hits of beacons from a heli in the avy debris... I can't see this ending well.
TetonAT is a great source of stoke. Sadness.
Search teams recovered two bodies from the Ranger Peak avalanche debris, parks spokeswoman Jenny Anzelmo-Sarles said.
“Until the coroner arrives we cannot definitively confirm the identities” of who was recovered from the slide, Anzelmo-Sarles said.
Very sad. :(
Bad news, they have positively identified the bodies...
http://www.planetjh.com/news/A_108174.aspx
So sad, condolences to family and friends.
So very sad.
Unbelievable news. This is absolutely horrible.
Rest In Peace RandoSteve & company
bummer. RIP. no one is immune. be safe(r) everyone.
rog
Holy shit. So sad. Best wishes to family and friends. Vibes to a legend, you will be missed.
Good grief not again...RIP gentlemen.
:(:confused::(
Has anybody seen the avi report of the incident? Do they do post incident reports there?
You can see the info that the avi center has published here if you click on the yellow symbol up to the NW of Jackson Lake, with two photos the rangers took. BT avi folks have not had a great history of investigating backcountry slides like you would see out of the Gallatin, Utah, CO or other areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
You can do everything right and still be at risk. Very sorry for your community's loss.
So weird to be following someone online for a bit, almost getting to know them, then reading about their death - that whole global village effect - tight community etc.
Saddened by the losses.
RIP Rando Steve and Chris.
funneh that the incidents involving the very popular/experienced don't get talked about here much. yet those that get killed and have little to no experience get scorned and ridiculed. should be the other way around don't ya think?
rog
my guess is that: a) there is really no info published with any snowpack analysis or investigation to discuss, as Hutash inquired about above; andQuote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
b) with their services being held today and tomorrow, folks might just be trying to be considerate...
ah, gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tye 1on
rog
Some of us are also worn down by all the death this winter and perhaps are out of things to say from the armchair. I'm just going to go with something Covert posted a few weeks ago - Good or bad decisions, shit happens when you dedicate your life to crushing it.
^^^^^^^^i do hear that.
rog
I hope you do.
If this is what actually happens, it's not surprising at all. Human behaviour 101.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
Sent from my Paranoid Android using TGR forums.
Just going on the limited facts available: highly experienced skier/mountaineers, epic day trip, skin track up intact for portions of the couloir - right where it should be, out of harm's way where possible. It is believed they were still ascending when it ran. Their bodies were located 100's of meters apart.
We will never know whether or where they dug a pit or pits, what the pit(s) showed or whether their separation while traveling was reasonable. However, based on those facts, I'd bet they dug a pit down low and were going to do another up high, that they were ascending intelligently, moving from safe zone to safe zone and that when it went, it propagated beyond what they anticipated. When you climb a couloir like that, you are exposed.
Based on what 'facts' other than what you are fabricating or guessing? You 'bet' they dug a pit? Shut the fuck up until you actually KNOW something.Quote:
Originally Posted by jserra17
Edit- nobody will know all the facts, and there may well be lessons to be learned from this tragedy, but you are clueless.
never really agreed with the whole "climb what you ski" thang for many situations. i'd rather climb up a less exposed route, then manage risk/hazards from top/down.
i'da been a gone'r a few times over had i climbed what i skied.
rog
Every fact listed in my first paragraph is easily verifiable with ten minutes on-line research. Those facts support the limited inferences I offered. I am sorry you don't care for my opinion, but my point remains the same: even experts doing everything right are at risk. I didn't criticize, didn't blame and don't believe I gave you cause for incivility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tye 1on
Dear Steve — A Letter to Romeo
My questions we will never have answers and I don't need them any more.
Well done Lou.
what does, "doing everything right", mean?
i do not see the correlation between this:and your inferences:Quote:
Originally Posted by jserra17
alternatively, "highly experienced skier/mountaineers" who live in the area and spend most of their time in the snow could say, "we're committed, we feel confident, and this thing should be good to go for the next few hours, let's get the fuck up this things ASAP." in other words, "let's not dig a pit down low or up high or carefully move from safe zone to safe zone, because it increases our time on this exposed line and will take too long to allow us to accomplish our objectives."Quote:
Originally Posted by jserra17
Yes, possible and I didn't know either of these gentlemen so I don't know what they would have done. With hindsight one could then opine that not digging a pit was a mistake - it might have yielded enough information to change or call off the mission. If so, that decision was tragic.
It seems that this (Slide Zone) forum has become highly dysfunctional. As of this week, we have 30 dead in avalanches in the U.S. At this point, an honest discussion about avalanche risk and intelligent decision making is appropriate, if not absolutely necessary. Yet, in every thread, any suggestion that applying a disciplined decision making process might have avoided a tragic outcome is met with howls of protest. Those processes are taught by AIARE, AAI and their Canadian equivalent - all of the professional avalanche education organizations in North America. I find it ironic that in this case my suggestion that the victims had followed those protocols has lead to still more protest. It's as though suggesting that someone followed safe procedure is an accusation that they abandoned some unwritten code of hard-core backcountry skiers. If that colony of backcountry skiers and riders is so sure they are right about their approach, why the extreme sensitivity? If those people really think they are safer by not digging a pit and performing some basic analysis, why the vitriolic response?
Forums are supposed to be about opinions. While there is no need to be hurtful or disrespectful, an honest discussion about these incidents is what one should expect in a forum and attempts to shout down those who offer opinions on that subject says more about the insecurity of the protestors than the competency of those offering the opinions.
Ok, so here's my opinion and bias: As a former professional Heli-ski guide with both AIARE and AAI Level 2 certifications, I believe that you shouldn't be out there if you aren't willing to take ten minutes to dig a pit to see what's actually happening in the snow pack. You should have done some research before leaving home, but still have an open mind about what you will find, what you will ski/ride and whether to turn around and accept that it was just a good day for a hike. If you are an occasional backcountry skier/rider, you should take a Level 1 class. If your life is built around "crushing it" in the backcountry, you should take a Level 2 course. In both cases, you have to apply what you are taught - a certification without that is just a piece of paper. Taking those steps won't guarantee your safety - you can do everything right and still be at risk. Not taking steps to mitigate the risks is foolish.
You are welcome to disagree. That's what forums are for.
Peace.
jserra - I think most people would disagree with your emphasis on pits and snow science. If you want a discussion about that; start another thread and I think you'll get useful discussion.
these things take some time to sort out rog
bf
What torqued me was 'based on those facts i'd bet they dug a pit down low and were going to do another one...' That is pure speculation. If you have facts to base that on let me know. But projecting what you would have done onto these two is bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by jserra17
Well, that's what i did, disagree, but with 'incivility'. This place calls bullshit by it's proper name. And calls out good stuff equally as strongly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jserra17
I appreciate your experience and training and don't disagree that studying accidents and determining lessons learned has great value. But you are over-focused on pit study. In my personal opinion, the two biggest factors were the time of day they were ascending, which is still not fully known, and possibly the familiarity heuristic trap influencing their decision making.
Good call Lee, that thread has been started here.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
wow 17 posts before the exguide with overpriced cert dick waveQuote:
Originally Posted by jserra17
i'm impressed
now another thread rediscussing this fine threadhttp://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...od-for-nothing complete some Roj reminicin bout him and the 1/4 lappin bobble avvy xpert not diggin pits because they meadow skip the bc blue squares.
here i was thinkin this place had a higher purpose but exguide jong has enlightened me to what the forums are for
mmacqbin
so hot right now