Tools of the Trade--avy gear--what do you carry?

Black Diamond D9 Shovel-- big and burly but it moves a lot of snow quickly and sometimes that is what you need. no kitty scoops---lexan blows

300cm Guide Probe --you can get away with a smaller one but would you want to? anything smaller than 260cm and your taking a chance. probe poles---not gonna do it. if you have 5 min to put them together then your not that worried about your partner.


Ortovox M2---great range and easy to use. a tracker maybe more user friendly for a novice but with practice i think this one is just as quick with a longer range.

http://a1072.g.akamai.net/f/1072/206...67313_9996.jpg

possible next purchase. Pieps DSP (not the advanced)
edit: i'll stick with the ortovox for now. the pieps has its ups and downs too it would seem. maybe the S1 will be the next best thing.:
http://sierramountainworks.com/Merch...1/piepsdsp.jpg


the future?
http://www.itapon.mydns.jp/santai/ga...s_s/beacon.jpg

well, what do you carry?

how about your medical/first aid kit? what's in there?

Voile shovel with saw inside handle. Probe. Barryvox. Avalung.

Getting one of those expensive NO2 packs next year.

SOS 3' shovel with 1' blade /w saw in handle
SOS F1-ND beacon: The best range out there.
Black Diamond 240cm (actually 260cm) Carbon Fiber probe

Winter Med Kit (~1.5lb):

General/splinting:
Pocket Mask
Hand warmers
Sam Splint
2x Elastic wrap
550 cord
Crevat
Various improvisable splinting material
Tourniquet

Bandaging:
Cloth Tape
Transpore Tape
Duct Tape
2 4x4s
Roller gauze
Various bandaids various sizes

Meds:
Alchohol prep pads
3-antibiotic ointment
Eyedrops
Naproxen (I love Aleve)
Ibuprofen (reccomended for frostbite)
ASA
Multivitamins
Sulfameth antibiotics
Antidiahreal
Caffiene
Burn gel

To add:
More Crevats
NPA adjustable + lube
2x OPA (general sizes)
Webbing various lengths
More 4x4s
Abd pad
Vaseline gauze
Coban (most usefull stuff ever)
Asherman chest seal (not always reliable)
Hemcon bandage (if I can ever find one)

240cm Ortovox.

BD Bobcat/Lynx shovel with Ripper saw in it.

Tracker DTS.

Wire+Ducttape 4m (around the poles,have save more than once..)

Gerber tool.

Lighter.

Cellphone and area necessary numbers (Tuned off).

Suunto (compass+altimeter)

Firstaid kit

-contains following pieces.Since i usually go out skiing, not stiching up a batallion of mine victims, i have tried to keep the weight as much down
as possible (everything fits into a 15cm x 20cm x 4cm packet)

For bleeding it is possible to improvise something out off aviable clothing, just untill the medivac comes.
One thing that i am missing is the facemask/breath assistant plastic thingy.
Keeping all the meds and other stuff at the lodging, no need to carry them around.



-inflatable airsplinter (leg/arm version,good to stop heavy bleeding too..)
-2light space blankets.
-strech bandage (twists+compression+splint etc..)
-2 regular bandages
-3 4x4rs
-1 hemo pad
- eyedrops


On top of this all the neccessary rope/map/stuff.

Trying to add some training,common sense,experience,cautiousness and wisdom every year. Good thing about those is that they dont weight that much...:)

BC Jong Here.

Working on it, but I have a question or more that will sound stupid to some of you, but I need to ask.

Saw, what is the main purpose for having this, pits?

Avalung, is it becoming a nessecity like a beacon, probe and shovel?

So far I have aquired and still getting ready:

Brains enough to know I am to be very careful as I have a family!
180 Chubbs with Freerides going on em in a few days, binders are here
Komperdell 260 cm probe
Vortex 2200 Backpack
First aid kit (will be adding a few things from others lists, thanks)
Regular Poles (what is the advantage of the triple seg poles when skiing?, I can see if boarding you can put em on the pack for the ride down)
Apline Boots (and they fit nice :D )


Still needed:

Beacon (should have been first on the list, I know) Maggots have offered to lend me one with a crash course on how to use it at least. Wont be out without one.

(and how the hell to you choose one, they all say they are the shit and there are other features.......for a beginner BCer that will progress and take avie courses starting next season, what is a good one to look for? I have a bit to save up but I want to get easy to use with room to grow into it, thinking a dig/analog mix)

Shovel (APD, what is the shovel you were talking about that you can help me out with?)

Skins (working the deals, hopefully by March for a few first mellow tours and education on the hill, always)

Avalung? (is this the last thing on the list or is it more of a priority?)

Saw?

Avie courses, every day out training with friends, learning how to use the beacon once I get it (Bird is calling, Basin I think has some free practice sites too).

I gotta say that my only day out this October with 2P was a great experience. I snowshoed with my board (harder but I had a hell of a day). Twoplanker would skin up, wait for me if I was out of sight range and when we encountered a potential area for instability or slide, he would point out what to look for before heading across an open area prone to slide, getting to a safe zone and then the other comes, and just some good knowledge he learned as passed it to me out in the field. The more we are out, the more vocal you more experience BCers are, the better for all of us. We can learn a lot from YOUR observations.


I am getting set now since the baby will be here and obviously take a lot of my time, but as we adjust, life will too and I will be out and about. BC is appealing to me for a number of reasons, with a mix of massive vert from lifts soemtimes too.

I need the exercise, it cost me gas money and some groceries to go out (after I am all outfitted with the proper gear), I can take my dog for exercise on short skins on mellow terrain around here (Great Danes have long legs and dont do well in steep deep snow, plus the short hair and no hair on the belly makes for a miserable, cold dog after bit), I can go out pretty much whenever as long as the conditions are stable, I have a few other friends who are HUGE into BC and others getting into it more, more partners the better.

If I play it safer than sorry, I feel the BC can be safe pending conditons and I want to simply get out in the great outdoors, play in the snow and ski a bit too. :D

This is another damn good thread. Please add to, correct me, tell me Im an idiot, ........., but more info the better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lostinthetrees

* BCA kit (tracker, metal shovel and probe in handle)

---

be careful using that one. i had this setup a while back and don't use it now for a few reasons. here is what i posted on it in another thread. i'm responding to a question about a probe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

like the other thread discussed, it depends on what you plan to do with it. what do you think you will need it for? just beacon spot recovery or will you happen upon a group of boarders/skiers that were out there w/o training and equipment and need to rescue them? if you are checking likely deposition zones at the bottom you will be on your feet and the pile will be deeper than higher up the slope and you will need a longer probe.

i don't recommend the bca pole/probe combo for a few reasons. first, the shovel is too small for what i'd like to carry now. second, the probe is flimsy and short. third, most people keep it stored in the handle, which is a bad idea. it takes too much time to pull the clip, then the probe and reassemble. there is a lot going on in your mind while doing a rescue and the complexity of your tools should not be one of them.

on a probe, this is the shortest i would ever go out with. i carry this one. i like the bd probes because they go together quickly and you don't have to waste time with threading a nut like on the bca probe.

---

that setup seemed to take forever to get ready even in practice. i couldn't imagine trying to use it in a real situation.

also remember that you may have to probe very deep in a terrain trap.

edit: the shovel is fine for most recreational users but not my cup of tea. a little larger in the blade is nice and telescoping if possible. ask a troller if you can dig with their shovel sometime. you'd be suprised at the differences.

I can't remember the specifics (like model names etc.) but here goes

Ortovox F-1 (used to have a remarkably fast search time was I was patrolling, but now, not so fast). I'll be carrying a tracker next year.

Ortovox probe. Don't know the length, but I beleive it is 9 feet.

Lost my BD bobcat shovel last Monday in Days Fork. If any one finds one, let me know. My back up is a Life Link shovel, with {gasp} a lexan blade. I don't worry about it not being able to dig through a depo pile (I've done it before with it) I worry about it's size, pretty small blade.

100 feet of halloween rope. The stuff is light and has been used to saw cornices, create a litter, etc.

Snow study kit, includes crystal card, scope, compass (improvised inclinometer), stir sticks to mark layers, snow pit log.

Cell phone

Head lamp

emergency blanket (2)

First Aid kit. My first aid kit is scaled back a lot. I carry some compresses, gauze, sam splint, cpr mask, tape, SOG tool, a knife, and I think that is about it.

Fortunately, my brain likes to go with me everytime.

Barryvox, SOS Pro shovel (big AL blade, gnarly snow saw in handle, telescoping), avvy probe, some light rope, water, snacks, sunscreen, analog cell phone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spats

Barryvox, SOS Pro shovel (big AL blade, gnarly snow saw in handle, telescoping), avvy probe, some light rope, water, snacks, sunscreen, analog cell phone.

---

congrats to spats. he's the first one, i think, to list some food. this was a huge mistake of my own. always carry something to munch on for energy. you never know how long you may end up staying out either by choice or not. hunger can really do a number on your thought process.

edit: well as foggy pointed out below, i did only ask about gear. but food/water is a must since you never know how long you may be out. also mentioned by foggy, bring a whistle. it is something i used to carry until i lost it. it would have been priceless to have one.

whistle
G3 shovel
G3 saw
Life Link 300
tracker
knife
binding tool
headlamp
puffy
extra hat, gloves, socks
AT bivy/blanket deal
flare
wilderness medical 1st aid kit
SAM splint
wire
duct tape
compass
webbing
accessory cord

This is what I take on a full day tour in deep. For overnights, we’ll split up the load. It doesn’t really weight too much or take up a lot of space.

apd: Food and water assumed. This is just gear.

Ortovox F1 (Barryvox in the future)
Life-Link HMX shovel, now on it's 2nd blade. AL, telescopes. Best way to move snow.
300cm BD Guide probe - nice, would like it to deploy quicker
Winter Engineering Snow Saw modified so it works with Flicklock poles.
MEC Snow Study Sporran filled with:
Suunto Clinometer
2*Thermometers
Paintbrush
Ruler
SpacePen
Rutschblock cord
"Backcountry Skiier's Fieldbook" - buy one from Hacksaw
Couple other pit cards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

be careful using that one. i had this setup a while back and don't use it now for a few reasons. here is what i posted on it in another thread. i'm responding to a question about a probe...

---

Now go easy on me. I am not a guide, troller, or on a search & rescue team. Just a recreationist, having fun and trying my best to acquire the tools. I do agree that the probe/sonde is short and requires at least 45 seconds to deploy. At least the shovel has a metal blade. :wink: bought the kit for the tracker, the rest came with.

I am an old man, and my pack is heavy enough (see my list above... add lunch to the list, always!). I do like to enjoy myself while skiing and not feel like the hunchback of notre dame on skis. :wink:

I don't wanna get into who all carries what blah blah blah all the time cause my list varies DRAMATICALLY depending on where/when/how far.

Always (b/c this stuff just lives in my small BC pack and get's transfered to the big one for bigger trips):
Tracker
Komper Probe
Volie Shovel (OLD D handle, metal blade, medium size - just barely fits the shovel pockets on most packs not extendable)
Small 1st Aid Kit (has some survival stuff in it like matches, knife, whistle)
duct tape (I have duct tape and whistles squirreled away in packs, kits, coats I'm always finding the damn things)
inclinometer
cornice saw (knotted rope)
stale ass cliffbars
extra layer (vest usually)
wool fingerless gloves

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lostinthetrees

Now go easy on me. I am not a guide, troller, or on a search & rescue team. Just a recreationist, having fun and trying my best to acquire the tools. I do agree that the probe/sonde is short and requires at least 45 seconds to deploy. At least the shovel has a metal blade. :wink: bought the kit for the tracker, the rest came with.

I am an old man, and my pack is heavy enough (see my list above... add lunch to the list, always!). I do like to enjoy myself while skiing and not feel like the hunchback of notre dame on skis. :wink:

---

i'm not trying to bust you balls here but do yourself a favor and take the probe out of the handle. it saves just that much more time. put on your gloves and do an experiment in your livingroom. try to ready your gear from your pack with the probe both in and out of the handle. it will give you an idea of how quickly you can do the tasks under ideal conditions.

when you get a chance, try to pick up one of the komperdell (sp?) probes that have been selling for ~$23 at stp. there was a link in tech talk or gear swap. ask powstash. he got one.


edit:link for probe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Voile shovel with saw inside handle. Probe. Barryvox. Avalung.

---

Ditto and a whislte.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

when you get a chance, try to pick up one of the komperdell (sp?) probes that have been selling for ~$23 at stp. there was a link in tech talk or gear swap. ask powstash. he got one.


edit:link for probe

---

I got the same probe, been practicing gettting it pulled tight, not easy at first but I got the hang of it now, but going to keep practicing. Now the shovel you are talking about for a gift for me, the one that had the probe in shovel? I think that will be fine for this recreationalist!

like i said, call me when you are down here next. the shovel is just sitting here waiting for you to take it home. it is a great shovel. i just prefer something wider and i already have another small bd shovel for an inbounds pack.

What do you think about the G3 Avitech shovel?

Also, for a BC jong (only guided stuff done at this point... and a couple unguided things off of the top of verbier when we were innocent and naive to the fact that europeans dont do avy control... so stupid) would you recommend the Tracker or the new Pieps?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seldon

What do you think about the G3 Avitech shovel?

Also, for a BC jong (only guided stuff done at this point... and a couple unguided things off of the top of verbier when we were innocent and naive to the fact that europeans dont do avy control... so stupid) would you recommend the Tracker or the new Pieps?

---

i like the g3 a lot. i almost bought it but i really wanted the biggest burliest shovel i could find and the d9 was it. i would say the g3 or the voile pro would be an excellent choice for a bc shovel. they are small enough to pack in and do not weigh too much yet they still telescope which is a good way to be able to dig out a partner without collapsing their air pocket. it also saves a lot of energy.

as for the beacon, it depends on how much you will practice with it. the tracker has a shorter range but is quicker for someone who doesn't practice regularly. it can however switch back into transmit mode after a few minutes of searching. the new pieps (advanced) is great for multiple burials and very versitile. i think the advanced has a compase, altimeter and a few other nifty gadgets that would be nice to have handy without adding a lot of weight and loss of pack space. the peips dsp advanced will likely be my next beacon. it is more expensive but worth it imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

.....try to ready your gear from your pack with the probe both in and out of the handle. it will give you an idea of how quickly you can do the tasks under ideal conditions.

---

Practiced a number of times; 45 - 60 seconds on snow (no slope) conditions. I am with ya, I don't reco that short-ass bca probe, but it comes with. I wish I had the best and brightest stuff...

Whistle. nice idea. There is one on my pack strap but it came with the pack and is very lame. I have an old ref's whistle (plastic) on short lanyard and will put on my pack's strap.

Did I say I was just carrying my lunch? Make that lunch for the family!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

ithe tracker has a shorter range but is quicker for someone who doesn't practice regularly. it can however switch back into transmit mode after a few minutes of searching.

---

Repeat, it does not switch in to emitting by accident.

You have to push the SP button for 5-10s upon transreciever start up to enable that option. That way you enable the option that after 5min(?) of recieving the transreciever goes into emitt mode.

Stupidiest funktion ever put on a electronic machine.

Logic behind that was that if you get caught in a secondary slide, your transreciever would be automatically turned to transmitting after 5min.

The only thing is that it confuses practically everyone (we did a test where we put this option on secretly.Even tracker owners,experienced ones lost several minutes while figuring out what happened, and inexperienced ones lost 15min+) as nobody has read the instructions, as we men usually dont do.

.5 cents

Meathelmet - very true and a very good point.

G3 shovel - I have one, great except for one design flaw. The metal spring in the extension floats within the handle. Two things can happen 1) the spring gets oriented in the wrong holes (I'm not sure why there are 4 holes not 2) 2) the spring ices up and could fall out. Both senarios render the shovel more or less useless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

congrats to spats. he's the first one, i think, to list some food. this was a huge mistake of my own. always carry something to munch on for energy. you never know how long you may end up staying out either by choice or not. hunger can really do a number on your thought process.

---

Keeping my blood sugar up makes me much less likely to make poor decisions. Not getting into a situation in the first place is worth any amount of expensive avvy gear.

This is not a lecture to you or anyone -- I know you've just gone through hell. I just know that for me, being bonked gives me tunnel vision. Any mental capacity I have left is totally fixated on my goal. This is dangerous.

I always carry a couple Balance bars or the equivalent, even when I'm skiing inbounds. It helps me avoid the 3 PM brain fog that so frequently leads to injury.

While they've fallen from favor the old school energy bars (Kendal Bars I think) are basically pure sugar and are good for people like me who's BS drops precipitously. good as a supplement to something more substantial that is.

I too don't like the bca pole/probe combo, and would suggest that anyone who has it or is thinking about it to try and practice with it under some stress like a mock rescue. You will be fumbling around still while others are already probing, or atleast i was.

In addition, perhaps the most important thing i haven't seen addressed here about the combo (forgive me if it has), is what happens when you are seperated from your poles? What if you and your partner both are caught, you surface and he doesnt, and now your poles are no where to be found? In my opinion keeping your probe in your pack or secured in the ice pick holder is the only way to go, sure you might lose your pack, but the chance of losing a pack is low compaired to holding onto poles during a slide.

what i carry isn't very different from the others so i won't post that.

My wife and I have been using the Pieps DSP beacons this year. We previously used Ortovox F1 analog beacons, so I can't compare them to the Trackers.

The Pieps DSP is very easy to use. My wife & I raced several times in our backyard with one of us using the Pieps and the other the Ortovox. The Pieps user was consistently faster because they could pretty much run in the direction that the beacon pointed. The Ortovox user had to stop to re-aim from time to time. We are both pretty skilled with the analog Ortovoxes, so it wasn't a case of operator error.

My seven & nine year old daughters were both able to quickly find a buried beacon using the Pieps after only a few seconds of instruction.

The multi-burial detection functions do not work with 100% consistency. The beacon has a scan function, in which it can assess an area and tell you how many beacons are buried within a 5 meter range, a 20 meter range, and a 50 meter range. That function seems to work quite well. In search mode, however, it sometimes reports multiple beacons even if there is only one transmitting. This mostly happened when we were searching for our old Ortovox analog beacons. You are also supposed to be able to suppress the signal from each beacon that you find in a multiple burial. We weren't able to consistently suppress the signals from our older analog beacons.

I don't particularly like the Pieps harness, although I'm getting used to it. I found the old Ortovox harness more comfortable. The Ortovox was also designed so that it was turned on by putting on the harness, so it was almost impossible to put the beacon on without also turning it on. I miss that feature. My wife & I have both skied all day and then realized that our beacons were not sending. Hopefully that's a mistake that we'll each only make once. We're much more careful about turning them on, now, and about checking each other.

We did not get the advanced versions with temp/compass/altimeter. The user manual states that the unit does not send while it is performing any of those functions. It does automatically revert to sending after two minutes.

All-in-all I'm quite happy with these beacons and have ordered two more for my kids.

basics in my pack:
telescoping volie metal bladed shovel (D handle)
long ass Ortovox probe
pieps 457 I have had for a while-want to upgrade to a digital as I thought I was good at searches, but folks with dts beat me now, even newbies
headlamp
cellie
spare socks cuz wet feet suck and can be really dangerous ( skied into a creek once)
Goo ( only for emergencies I really hate the stuff)
spare layer for its late warmth
far too basic first aid kit after reading above.......

heard some stuff on the packs with nitrogen inflated bags designed to float to the top of an avalnache, wondering if anyone has ever tried them out? Obviously woun't replace probe/shovel/beacon combo, but would it be worth the money if you had it?

http://www.abssystem.com/\

seems like a good idea but they cost like $550.

Always in my pack or on my person:

Ortovox F1 Focus
Ortovox probe
Voile Shovel
BD Avalung
Slopemeter
Small extra food stash (2 gels, 2 clif bars, granola)
Sunglasses
TP - always a must
Essentials bag:

• Zip ties
• first aid basics
• hand warmers
• ski strap
• knife
• sun screan
• finger/toenail clippers
• hankerchief
• duct tape

Stuff that's almost always in my pack:

20 meter 8mm rope
Headlamp
small puffy vest
visor

waiting to buy a saw when they are in stock - life link saw

I'm a BC noob and am still putting my kit together. Summer sales and info I've gotten here has lead to this list:

Beacon: BCA tracker
Shovel: BD bobcat
Probe: BD 300cm
Saw: G3 bone saw
MedKit: Generic, not even real sure whats in it.

Maps, food, water, compass, GPS, multitool, Freeride spare parts, extra fleece and gloves are also in my pack.

Still looking into a slope-meter or another compass that will do the job. And possibly a Ructhblock cord or some kind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summit

Ibuprofen (reccomended for frostbite)
ASA
NPA adjustable + lube
2x OPA (general sizes)
Abd pad
Coban (most usefull stuff ever)
Asherman chest seal (not always reliable)
Hemcon bandage (if I can ever find one)

---

can you elaborate?
Does Ibuprofen help circulation or just ease the pain?

Also, the other items on the list went over my head.
Would you mind adding some detail?
Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by This End Up

Still looking into a slope-meter or another compass that will do the job. And possibly a Ructhblock cord or some kind.

---

3mm static with knots in it does the trick without cutting up your probe. it is also much less expensive.

Just curious, why not just use the voile? is it harder to dig pits with the voile? It seems that carrying two shovels is a bit excessive, since they aren't really "specialty" tools for pits/avy victims?

The ortavox fits in my pack in one peice and snow saw fits on the handle of that shovel. So it is quick and easy to use. I just don't trust the lexan blade in an emergancy situation like a burial and the volie rides well in the Dakine pack in two peices. Its over redundant and I will probly change packs next season. I would like a life link hymalian and a saw that fits on the handle but it won't fit in the guide pack well. Anyone rockin an Osprey pack? The switch packs look sweet.

sfb, i don't have the ospry but the bd frenzy 28L fits my d9 with just the handle sticking out. i think those two shovels have the same dimensions. i don't know too many other packs that will fit a blade that large.

The d9 got a saw attachment that fits on the handle also?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skifishbum

The d9 got a saw attachment that fits on the handle also?

---

nope, i've had one before. i finally came to this realization:
(not all info relavant)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

i have one of these and i only use it when i need to dig pits. https://secure.visi.com/wasatchtouring/images/saws.gif the less i get out, the more pits i dig. i have had one that is in shovel but it was too short for most things. you can either make your own like a few threads around here show or you can find any coarse tooth saw at the hardware store that will pack ok. some folding pruning saws may work.

---

That looks real similiar to the otravox saw I use only it will only attach to the ortavox shovel handle. Dug a hell of a lot of pits this season. A good exercise while takin the "safety break". Gots to go see if those doggie avalanche victem volunteer sessions will snag me some final lift rides while patrol is breaking down. Thanks for the info. Hope to see ya in the BC cause "it aint over". Not even close

[QUOTE=skifishbum Anyone rockin an Osprey pack? The switch packs look sweet.[/QUOTE]

I just ordered a switch 25. VERY excited, It should be a great pack. I'll let you know. :D

Someone asked what is the main reason for a saw. IMO they are invaluable for getting good results out of a pit = for isolating the block. ALso if you are holing up somewhere and making an igloo or preparing a wind-block wall then they're awesome. I use the G3 saw.

I'm a big fan of LONG probes - 320mm myself; echo what APD said. There's a lot of burials at or below 2 m - some even survive. Its tough probing 2m of refrozen debris with a 240 mm probe as you only have 40 mm protruding then. The extra weight is worth it IMO. I like the lifelink probe for its quick setup.

Shovel - echo what APD said about the shovel and probe and saw combo - finincky and a pain. Fan of old fashioned heavy metal shovels.

As for tranceivers. Im a big fan of Barryvoxs. Super easy to use. Digital chip kicks in fast. Harness is very well -designed. I like the way i can program it to read both analog and digital which helps a ton in multiple burial situations for me as i was used to analog beacons before..

Compass- invaluable imo when used with a map as you can use it to avoid avvy terrain and for routefinding. Get one with adjustable declination; either mills or degrees are fine. I thought the Spring article about avvy safety and education had a great point about avvy education.