190 Jak vs. 188 BroModel for b/c?

Assume they're both going to get mounted up and used - the only question is which to use for (AT) backcountry and which to use (alpine) inbounds.

The Jak is 190cm, 97mm; the Bro is 188cm, 99mm.
The Jak is softer in the tip and tail, The stiff Bro is stiffer and said to plow through crud better
The Jak is relatively light, but hardly featherweight; The Bro is said to be unusually light.

The Jak is orange; The Bro is blue. Freerides are gray with orange/yellow, and I happen to have some blue Look p12s waiting for a pair of boards. On the other hand, blue and orange are also complimentary, so I could put the Looks on the Jaks and put Freerides on the Bros... :rolleyes:

Go.

Mount up the Jak for your back country setup and your Bro's for alpine.

Reasoning you will lover your Bro's so much that you will want to ski them all the time in all conditions so the dh binding will be better. The jak will be a better soft snow ski and a decent harder snow ski so for touring you are looing to ski soft stuff as much as possible and occasionally you will ski harder. Also when you realise how much you like the Bro's you will be able to sell the Jaks as acomplete setup (better resale value) and get new Freerides for your new soft Bro's next year.

Good reasoning. More debate needed. Fuel for the fire:

Thus far this season, I've been skiing about:

40% inbounds alpine
30% inbounds tele
30% sidecountry/backcountry AT

I may have to ski a little less tele, as it has resulted in some sore knees for the first time in my life, but the breakdown is still indicative. Assume that the long term breakdown is about:

45% inbounds alpine
35% sidecountry/backcountry AT
20% tele (don't currently like to tour tele, but with G3s new touring heelpiece, that may change, so I'll leave it general)

31 views and one reply. You people suck balls. :fuckyou: :D

Bros for Alpine
Jaks for BC

reasoning = none

I've never skied either.

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

31 views and one reply. You people suck balls. :fuckyou: :D

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I'd reply, but I'm too biased. I say use Bro's for both..mount some Solly's on 'em and use Trekkers for BC. Or buy a second pair and mount one AT and one alpine :D

*seriously though I like weibo's suggestion*

I haven't skied either, but I'd put the Freerides on the Jaks and the alpine on the Bros. The bros seem like a perfect everything ski. Then, next year switch the set up!

Bros are so light that you'll be pissed every time you lug the Jaks around. But they'll be a lot stiffer than the Jaks, so you might want them for alpine. Clearly you need soft Bros for backcountry and stiff Bros for alpine :D

183 Gotamas, definitely.

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

Thus far this season, I've been skiing about:

40% inbounds alpine
30% inbounds tele
30% sidecountry/backcountry AT

I may have to ski a little less tele, as it has resulted in some sore knees for the first time in my life, but the breakdown is still indicative. Assume that the long term breakdown is about:

45% inbounds alpine
35% sidecountry/backcountry AT
20% tele (don't currently like to tour tele, but with G3s new touring heelpiece, that may change, so I'll leave it general)

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

31 views and one reply. You people suck balls.

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I'm just impressed you've got the percentages adding up to 100% :yourock:

And I can't help you, cuz I haven't skied either of em

I tele on Jaks and am very jealous of PowderPig's Bros. I fear when I do rent some AT boots and take them for a tour I will sell all tele gear to fund a new AT habit. While I am not a weight weenie, I would dig a pair of Bros for their lightweight and versatility. Lucky me on tele same binding goes both places.

So, that being said, freerides on Bros and you will find yourself going BC more.

Just sell the Jaks, take the funds from that job you love so much and get another pair of Bros for resorts.

As a side note, the G3 touring heel is a pain in the ass at best and a hoax at worst. I just use mine as a "regular" heel piece.

Freerides on the Bros and use them for everything. (or take The Shoe's advice and use trekers).

Or, take my advice and mount them tele and use them for everything (at least that's my plan when I get mine).

My bias is clear, but the Bros are very light - great for touring.

http://www.pmgearusa.com/pics/brosontop.jpg

I will freeride Bros and use them anywhere and everywhere. I just sent a pair of Jaks and a pair of Bros to Brownmonkey and roo. Icould not believe the weight of the Jaks. And I have this funny feeling roo is somewhere envying Brownmonkey's choice of the Bros.

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

The Jak is orange; The Bro is blue. Freerides are gray with orange/yellow, and I happen to have some blue Look p12s waiting for a pair of boards. On the other hand, blue and orange are also complimentary, so I could put the Looks on the Jaks and put Freerides on the Bros... :rolleyes:

Go.

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is this seriously a consideration? :eek:

lol.....what color is your helmet, Yos?

The Jaks are for my brother but I'll get to have a look at the pair together in La Grave. It's just a shame I won't get to ski the Bro Models as my boots are about twice as long as Brownmonkey's.

But then the Jaks were less than half the price of the Bros so maybe we're not comparing eggs with eggs...

That's cheap.

Yep. I've little doubt the Bros are superior skis but it was tough for Chris to turn down a set of fat skis in the plastic wrap for $199.

Check out the weight difference. Blew me away.

sorry I read this only today. I have 190 jaks with freerides and 188 soft bros with freerides. I will ALWAYS use the BROS for AT. It's so simple... BROs are lighter, and do everything jaks do... similarly or better. Said that, my strategic decision is to keep BROs in verb for "everyday" use and bring the jaks in Milan to have them at hand for my monterosa AT days.

..... just cuz I'm sooooo lazy and do not want to bring BROS with me in my car up and down the san bernard every given week :rolleyes:

my helmet is a spraypainted black with a little red, but sometimes the paint chips when I hit trees and things and reveals a little blue and yellow underneath. :rolleyes: :D

Interesting thoughts here.

True, the Jaks were found at $199 on super-discount, which is why I bought them even when I didn't really need them. So, I suppose I could sell them or just keep them around for rainy days. Anyone want some Jaks for $300 plus shipping? :D

I am happy enough on my 180cm 84mm Fischer Bix Stix wG3s for tele, so I think I'll keep the discussion on the alpine/AT split.

I don't do trekkers. Trekkers = Tour wreckers IMHO.

Weight really isn't that much of a concern to me. Yeah, I want a generally lighter ski for touring, but I don't seem to notice relatively incremental weight differences. If we're talking 100% heavier, that's one thing, but within reason, it's not a huge consideration. So why did I bring it up in the first place then? I dunno; everyone else has been talking about how light the Bros are.

I think probably the biggest determinants for me are the flex/dimension aspects, which dictate how I can ski the boards. I want my AT skis to be tailored towards untracked soft snow performance and be super easy to snap around in short radius turns if they have to (for skiing in the trees and backing out of routefinding fuck-ups), but without being noodles. My current AT ski is the old K2 AK Enemy, which at 188cm, 90mm, are pretty good. Wood core, twinned (so it skis short), and with a rounded, medium-soft flex. If it were just a bit wider, and maybe 2-3 cms shorter...

So, now the dilemma should be obvious. The AK Enemies are getting beaten up little by little, and I will likely have used them up by the end of the season. So, the replacement will be either the Jak or the Bro.

The pros and cons are pretty well spelled out above.

I dunno, we'll see. Perhaps when I get them next to each other, the choice will become clear which to put the AT binders on, and which to put the Looks on.

I'll be sure to document and post the direct comparison when it happens.

Thanks for the thoughts.

In retrospect, it sounds like the soft Bros would fit the bill perfectly for what I want in an AT ski. But of course, I have the stiff Bros coming (which fits my alpine preferences better).

So, perhaps the play is as follows: mount the stiff Bros with Looks this year, hope that the AK Enemies get me through the year, and consider soft Bros for AT next year. Keep the Jaks in case I need them, and sell them if I don't.

Eh, we'll see. Anyway, thanks for reading my brain dribble.

I vote for using the (soft) Bros for AT. Never tried the stiffies or the Jaks... I have my softies mounted with freerides and love that setup.
Sorry, I guess that didn't help you very much - you'll just have to get the softies as well... :p

Just sell the fatties and get some true Euro ski mountaineering planks (from 65 to 75 waist, and those 75 are real wide) :p

drC

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Originally Posted by Dr. Crash

Just sell the fatties and get some true Euro ski mountaineering planks (from 65 to 75 waist, and those 75 are real wide) :p

drC

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NO WAY
SHUT UP
BUZZ OFF....

FAT IS COOL :p

How does the soft bro model weight compare to the lighter Jak BC?

188cm Bros: just over 4 lbs per ski (so, let's say 4lbs 1oz)
180cm Jak: 4 lbs 7oz per ski
180cm Jak BC: 4lbs 1oz

all according to manufacturer's websites.

So, 188cm Bros vs. 190cm Jaks = difference of more than a pound per pair.
188cm Bros vs. 190cm Jak BCs = difference of a few ounces per pair.

Sounds like our quivers are getting into similar terrain. I've got both skis (jak 190 and soft bros in my possession if you want to fondle, and weigh, and whatnot).

I'd use Jaks for AT mostly because they are tele skis, and my buddies look as if they are about to delam after 2 seasons inbounds. But both skis are so damn sexy..

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Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey

I'd use Jaks for AT mostly because they are tele skis, and my buddies look as if they are about to delam after 2 seasons inbounds. But both skis are so damn sexy..

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huh.... they're not only sexy (actually the all-orange jak tip is all but sexy...), they're sweet. I admit to have a penchant for soft skis, but I LOVE my jaks and BROs. They're different, and make a perfect pair: jaks for relax days, BROs for muscle days

The Jak's and the Bros are too similar to defend having both pairs. Put the freerides on the Bros, and they will be great (if the reviews are to be believed) both inbounds and BC. In my opinion you gain a lot by skiing the skis you are used to all the time even though ideally it is possible that the Jaks might be better in some conditions. To put freerides on the heavyest skis is just beyong any logic.

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Originally Posted by KANUTTEN

The Jak's and the Bros are too similar to defend having both pairs. Put the freerides on the Bros, and they will be great (if the reviews are to be believed) both inbounds and BC. In my opinion you gain a lot by skiing the skis you are used to all the time even though ideally it is possible that the Jaks might be better in some conditions. To put freerides on the heavyest skis is just beyong any logic.

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no!
first, they're similar in size, not in the way they ski. They ski different, and, although I second your opinion that you gain by deep knowledge of ONE ski, you're not the same everyday...... at my ancient age, I have different potential on different days.... I can not ski fast EVERYDAY, for instance.
second... c'mon, dude, everyone knows jaks were at 199, so how much can you make out of it? :D

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Originally Posted by verbier61

no!
first, they're similar in size, not in the way they ski. They ski different, and, although I second your opinion that you gain by deep knowledge of ONE ski, you're not the same everyday...... at my ancient age, I have different potential on different days.... I can not ski fast EVERYDAY, for instance.
second... c'mon, dude, everyone knows jaks were at 199, so how much can you make out of it? :D

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Basically, it seems as if the Bros would be my preferred skis both inbounds and BC. I wouldn't put freerides on the Jaks when they are heavier then the Bros. And I would probably prefer prefer bros on the slopes as well. Conclusion; the Jaks are obsolete!

Too bad conditions to go skiing in the alps eh? ;)

We've done a batch of Bros with aspen cores, as opposed to the fir we've been using (better wood, more durable, no knots). They are differentiated with black sidewalls. The stiff is somewhat stiffer and approximately 5-6 ounces heavier per ski. The increase in weight is due, I believe, to the aspen soaking up more resin. This might upset some people, but the ski should actually have a much longer life and the more resin in a ski, the tougher it is, the longer it keeps camber, and the less likely it is to break. The weight difference is more noticeable in the stiffs than the softs.

I'll be waiting for reviews from those who have gotten them...

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

In retrospect, it sounds like the soft Bros would fit the bill perfectly for what I want in an AT ski. But of course, I have the stiff Bros coming (which fits my alpine preferences better).

So, perhaps the play is as follows: mount the stiff Bros with Looks this year, hope that the AK Enemies get me through the year, and consider soft Bros for AT next year. Keep the Jaks in case I need them, and sell them if I don't.

Eh, we'll see. Anyway, thanks for reading my brain dribble.

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That sounds like a solid plan yos! No real downside there.

Psssst. I bet you could sell those Jaks for at least $295.

If they don't like the game they don't need to play.

Don't discount those stiffs to double as both an inbounds and b/c ski, Yos. I have my blemmed stiffs mounted with freerides, which are fine inbounds for me, and will use them b/c without a second thought.