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Those tats must look weird on the skinny little arms he has now.
My question now......are they gonna put Bonds through this or is the MLB gonna try an stop that.....cause if Bonds addmitted to it (it's obvious - it was his trainer Giambi got the shit from) then baseball would fall into a bad state for sure.
he said he inadvertently used it. "inadvertently" - that word will get you out of anything these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raps
Giambi apparently said he used injectable steroids, oral steroids and a cream.
Bonds and Sheffield apparently admitted using creams. Are rub on creams performance enhancing? I thought they were more for rashes, etc.
bonds admitted to using the creams and i believe the oral/under the tongue stuff, "clear". he said he didn't know they were steroids. he thought they were for arthritis/joint pain.
And, he was right. Steroid usage is likely to increase both of those later in life....Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
What's funny is that the NY media is ready to run Giambi out of town, but Sheffield (who had an MVP type season) gets a free pass. Do the fans think like this too? I'm not trying to be a high and mighty Sox fan here (if everybody on the Sox is/was clean I'd be shocked), but if you're going to take one guy to task for doing the roids, how about directing at least 10% of that anger at Sheff? No way the MLBPA is letting him out of that contract anyways...
Either Bonds is a retard or a pathological liar.Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
Those guy's are using Serostin (human growth hormone). They (MLB) don't test for HGH because of the last collective bargining agreement. There was a good report on it a couple nights ago on either ESPN or FOXsports, don't remember which one.
In California, this stuff is being purchased from AIDS patients. They get a scrip for it (paid for by MediCal) to promote muscle growth and prevent muscle wasting. It was something like $6K per month to use the stuff.
Not to drift the topic, but for MediCal to cover your AIDS drugs you need to shed all assets and have a poverty level income, so I can see the temptation to earn some money reselling your drug. Nor do I find it productive to vilify people with a horrible fatal disease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoni
So true. If it was Sheffield who had shouldered the Yanks with the worst contract in baseball and not Giambi, all this flak would be directed at him. And the MLBPA will definitely keep the Yankees on the hook for that deal. After all, wasn't it pretty clear that he was on the juice to begin with? There's no way the Yankees- or anyone- can credibly claim ignorance or lack of knowledge. That's what I think is funny about this story- that it was completely obvious to anyone who saw Giambi this spring that he had lost his connection after the BALCO bust and had dropped 25 lbs. as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrockpow
Pete Rose, one of the greatest hitters of all time cant get in the Hall cuz he bet.
Bonds was surely on his way, does he not go in now?
McGuire's name gonna stay unsullied? You let him in.
Sheffield has had a carreer to be proud of, does he get banned from baseball?
Different kind of steroid. Anabolic Steroids build muscle, corticosteroids are an anti-inflammatoryQuote:
Originally Posted by half-fast
from vinmanok-but do anabolic steroid creams build muscle?Quote:
Different kind of steroid. Anabolic Steroids build muscle, corticosteroids are an anti-inflammatory
Yes, that's why they are called anabolic.Quote:
Originally Posted by half-fast
And he thought it was just a coincidence he all of a sudden put on about 25 lbs. of muscle :)Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
The sad thing is everyone has known about this for years, but until fairly recently most people in the media have pussyfooted around the issue. I guess all the talk about the "juiced ball" was just a nice, tidy euphemism for "juiced players."
yes testoterone or what ever drug is absorbed though the skin into the blood streamQuote:
Originally Posted by half-fast
IMO you let 'em all in, but make very clear that records from about 1990-today are severely tainted by steroid usage. The thing is that we're never really gonna know how many of these guys beyond the obvious (Sosa, Bonds, McGwire) and admitted (Caminiti, Giambi, Canseco, Sheffield) users were getting a boost from the juice. Guys like Nomar and even a good number of pitchers have probably shot up, but they're gonna fly under the radar. Bonds definitely loses any shot of being considered the GOAT, but what Rose did was worse for baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
To get a little more specific about roids: Winstrol and Primabolan are generally considered better for building lean muscle mass. This (I think) is what Ben Johnson tested positive for and is likely what Marion Jones has taken (in addition to HGH).
Sustanon and Dianabol are a regimen more designed for strength training and promote a spike in testosterone levels. THese, in addition to HGH, are what the sluggers in MLB are on (ski racers have also been known to take 'em). They say that getting off the cycle is the hardest part and that is why it was so clear that Giambi had quit last spring. The problem with the roids is that they don't strengthen tendons or ligaments. Stronger muscles around those tendons/ligaments will lead to many more injuries, which is why HGH has been taken. HGH actually stimulates bone and tissue development, which is why you see a guy like Bonds (or someone with gigantism) end up with a watermelon-sized noggin.
All of these guys who claim to have "inadvertently" taken roids are full of shit. The juice spikes blood pressure and can increase estrogen levels (leading to bitch tits) so any professional athlete taking roids was probably monitored by his trainer to watch out for warning signs. If the teams take BP readings in-season, then they too should have a good idea of who is cheating...
So Bonds probably was talking about the "Bro Model" long before anyone on this board :fm:Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrockpow
You got to wonder before all the *total* scutiny of the media, what did MLB players from the way-back do to help themselves? We hear of all the old debauchery, but we may never know if they used any sort of enhancing drug...likewise with Barry Bonds we may never know...although righ now it is *hot* news for the media to focus and dig into...
Then add all the different changes that have happened to b-ball over the years that make comparing to different eras impossible:
1. Use Better Gloves...run production goes down--only one player has batted .400 since bigger gloves have been used.
2. Use the newer "live" ball...homerun production and BA's go up with the production of the new b-balls.
3. Raise the mound...pitching is premium with a higher angle of decent for the ball to home plate.
4. Make the cutball and spitball illegal...batters gain the edge again.
5. Move the fences back...HRs go down, ERAs go down with them.
6. New bats that are all barrell...HRs go back up
7. Night games...advantage pitcher, run production goes down
8. Start with specialty pitchers and five man rotations...longer rest for starters, shorter games with closers, and the l-r thing help overall pitching.
9. Create the designated hitter...BAs and ERAs in the American League go up.
10. Move fences in, lower the mound...no pitcher has won 30 games since the mound was lowered. Run production has been on the rise
9. Now Steriod use...homeruns had gone through the ceiling with average players able to hit 50.
Since it is really impossible to compare the different eras of Baseball, keep the eras separate.
Can Pedro Martinez be properly compared with Bob Gibson or Cy Young? No. Can Pete Rose or Rogers Hornsby be compared with Ted Williams, Ty Cobb or Tony Gwynn? No. Can Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, and Barry Bonds be acurately compared? No.
Personally, label steriod use as an era...if use was not illegal when the player used them (eg--Big Mac) then permit their records denoting the era...if illegal usage, then dis-allow the records or use the old heinous *asteric* that haunted Maris till the day he died.
As far as Pete Rose goes (getting into the hall)...he has about as much a chance as Fidel Castro does of getting a big sloppy anal kiss from George Bush...he has pissed off too many people, regardless if he deserves it or not, it is not gonna happen until after his death.
peace,
BS.
Who told you to put the balm on? I didn't tell you to put the balm on. The Maestro? The Maestro told you to put the balm on?Quote:
Originally Posted by half-fast
At least he didn't do this...
Herpes
Nasty!!!Quote:
At least he didn't do this...
Not only baseball, but olympians are involved. A rep from BALCO said he saw Marion Jones stick a syringe with steriods in her leg. He said she also used a bunch of other crap.
As far as home runs go, I don't think the steroids have made much of a difference for bonds. In the last four years bonds OBP has risen dramatically, along with his slugging. Besides the one year when he had 73 home runs, bonds has hit between 35 and 45 homers a year since 1990 for the most part. The thing the steroids has done for Bonds is his ability to get on base more via walk because pitchers can't throw a ball over the plate to him unless they want it in the stands. He has been consitantly hitting home runs since 1990 and I am willing to bet that he wasn't on 'roids then. There has only been one year in his career when he has hit 50 or more home runs.
I am in no way condoning steroids use in professional sports- I think it is wrong and gives some players an advantage. Anyone can do steroids, but they still won't be able to hit a lick. Bonds will break the home run record in 2 years and there is no reason his records should be tainted. If you look at his stats and his consistant home runs year in and year out, he would have broken the record anyway; it probably just would have taken one more year to do it.
It seem like you're kind of contradicting yourself here. As you say, pitchers won't pitch to him anymore because he hits everything out of the yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJay
Here are some stats for you:
1986 was his first year, '90 was the first year he really hit for power.Code:Year AB HR HR/AB
------------------------
1986 413 16 25.8
1990 519 33 15.7
2000 480 49 9.8
2001 476 73 6.5
2004 373 45 8.3
And, you're right, roids can't help you hit learn to hit a baseball, but I'd say Barry had that down already.
EDIT: OK, maybe you're saying the roids haven't helped his total HR count (since he's walking so much now). I guess I'll agree with that. They have definitely helped his production.
Roids (and HGH) have really helped his home run count. They have allowed him to add muscle mass and heal from injuries faster at an age when most people's bodies start to break down (35) and as a result I think he has 200+ HRs in his 36, 37, 38, and 39 yr. old system. The number is totally tainted and there's no getting around it...Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJay
I am a hugh sports fan. I love almost everything about sports. The compitition, the comraderie(sp), the outdoors (I hate domes), the athletics, and the atmosphere. I love pro sports as well as college. I root for all of my home town teams (and Pittsburgh). What am I talking about? The NHL has been canceled, MLBers are juiced to the hilt, and they accually cancelled the world series. But I don't care. Why? A couple years ago me and my brother-in-law were talking about yet another baseball strike/lockout/whatever. He said; "But what if they cancel baseball?" Thats when I realized, they can't cancel baseball. They can't do anything. What if the FIS went on strike? Could that cancel skiing? No. All this means is millionaires are fighting with other millionaires over millions of dollars. Bottom line I will continue to enjoy, just about, every sport in my own way and change chanels during commercials. And I dont have to be paid a billion to do so(although I would accept it). :rolleyes: