Kona's hips

She's 7 months now and seems to be having some hip problems. She has kind of a waddling gait and she balances almost all of her weight on her front legs when she squats to go potty. Plus ... she has a hard time getting up from lying down.

The vet suggested hip dysplasia might be a possibility. He wants me to start her on glucosamine and aspirin. He said we should give that a week to kick in and then he'll see her after T-giving.

Anyone else know about hip dysplasia? Scoob and I are kinda freaking out.

:( :( :(

i don't know much but i have been doing a little research lately cause our shephard/lab is about 10 mos old and i don't want to do anything to cause hip problems.

sounds like they think it is a combination of genetic and environmental factors that cause it. more common in bigger breeds, but happens in small dogs as well. i guess for dogs under 2 years you are supposed to avoid too much strenuous activity; big hikes, mtn biking, climbing in the snow, forcing the dog to run fast for long periods, etc.... basically anything that causes the dog to put too much pressure on its back legs.

google it. there are a ton of websites re: hip dysplasia.

hope that dysplasia isn't the case. :(

I'm at a party right now a little buzzed (a lot) but I am compelled to answer!

In 97' I bought a beautiful "pick of the litter" yellow lab from a local breeder. Grand Canadian Champ", AKC Champ...blah blahblah.

Stoli is perfect, right? wrong!

we were thinking about breeding him ( for family only) but we, did the "responsible" thing by getting his eyes and hips checked before we found a bitch.

After a $200.00 xray we found that Stoli has a severe degenerative hip socket, or lack of one. My wife cried the whole way home from the vet. I wanted to kill the breeder.

The moral of story is check your dogs before you breed them. Yes I realize there can be some latent, genetic issues, in big breed dogs. But if we all do our part, we can cut down on the undesirable bastards.

I still have Stoli, he is happy and so far his dysplasia has not manifested its self*.

Keep your dog thin. Swim him if possible
Walks and rest

feed him glacogusamine (sp?) enriched/fortified food

*yes after long frisbee sessions or run arounds with othe dogs, he yelps in pain just jumping on to the couch or in the back of the 4runnuer...sad :frown:

Good luck

I googled it just a few minutes ago and the similarities between Kona and the signs and symptoms are overwhelming. Hopefully it's a fluke though?

She's a mutt - we adopted her from a shelter, so she's no champion. We lover her dearly though and don't want her to suffer, especially not this young.

Its a sad but true reality in the dog breeding world. Pedigree means more than the health of the dog in many cases, and breeders just keep breeding recessive traits into dogs. Way to go MacDaddy having the sense and ethic to check your dogs hips before breeding.

Breeders/Puppy Farmers suck ass. People buying pets from them are just adding to the over population problem.

People should adopt from the pound or from someone giving em away, then get your pet neutered or spayed. There are way too many dogs and cats getting euthinized. Mixes are better too, the effects of inbreading are smaller, and they are usually a lot healthier.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

Breeders/Puppy Farmers suck ass. People buying pets from them are just adding to the over population problem.

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AGREED.

One of my yellow labs is from an extreme overbreed....too many good genes mixed together = bad results for the offsrping...


Fred (3 years old)...perfect teeth, perfect coat....cost my dad around 2,000 in leg surgeries....good luck

This is what happens when you control breeding to gain certain "desirable" traits at the expense of letting natural selection take its course. These problems will only continue to get worse with time. It is pretty stupid (or at least short-sighted), and it is sad. However, I think some people start to get a little carried away when it comes to caring for their dogs. Where I come from dogs are animals/property; they aren't people. Dogs, like other livestock, should be treated humanely and with respect, but not pampered and treated like children. My girlfriend works with a couple (in there mid-twenties) who own a malamute/wolf that has a lot of health problems. They've spent somewhere around $10,000 on this dog and its problems. They've been together for awhile, will probably marry and have kids. They both work in a restaurant. To me that $10,000 would have done a lot more good in a college account for a future child rather than repairing a dog that is poorly equipped to survive. I have loved every dog I've ever owned, but I'd never spend thousands of dollars on vet bills. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by LAN

She's a mutt - we adopted her from a shelter, so she's no champion. We lover her dearly though and don't want her to suffer, especially not this young.

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It seems rare that a mutt would get hip dysplasa. Pirate first showed his first signs of it when he was around 7 years old. When it first showed up it was really bad almost to the point where we had to put him to sleep. But the hip problems almost seemed to regress for 3 or so years and he got around damn good for an old dog. But Golden's are prone to HD and Pirate was pushing 120 lbs...he was a big doggie.

Anyways I would get him to a vet ASAP it could be something simple like fluid on his hip. Or a strained muscle.

Well, I just got back from the vet. I knew from the big sigh that the vet let out when he saw the x-rays, that it wasn't good.

Kona's 8 months old and has severe hip dysplasia. I'm so bummed, and I can't stop crying. The vet said that we could do one of several surgeries - the one he suggests is a triple pelvic something-or-other, that costs $5k. That's $5k we don't have.

When I asked the vet what he would do if she were his dog, he said, "I'd give her Aspirin each day, enjoy her while I have her, and put her down when she's ready."

I'm so sad. :(

Poor Kona. That really sucks. Can you get a loan for the $5K? The payments on a loan of that size shouldn't be too bad.

Good luck and best wishes to Kona.

HD info here....good luck LAN.

Hip Testing….Just Do It?ã2001
Eric Gramlich


A few weeks ago I was talking to Melinda Proffer when she said she was in the process of putting together a newsletter for the SABT to be distributed in the US. As we discussed the newsletter, all subjects- kids, dogs, work, dogs, life, dogs etc.-came up as they usually do when Melinda and I are on the phone. We eventually wound up on the subject of hip screening and dysplasia. Melinda and I both agreed that some form of hip screening was crucial to the development of the boerboel in this country.
Well, I volunteered to discuss the two methods. This article is the result of me trying to convey to you why hip screening is important. I also hope to convey how PennHip and OFA can be used to increase the quality of hip joints in the boerboel.
Earlier this year, prior to getting a Dogue de Bordeaux x-rayed, I spent a great deal of time trying to sort things out between the two methods. So much undocumented information and hearsay exists on internet web sites, from message boards and breeders gossip that it took a long time to ferret out reliable sources of information from books, researched articles, scientific journals and the like. After digging through all the stuff for this article it was clear that most of it was too technical or lengthy to put into anything but a master’s thesis or write a book on the subject with a references list and the whole ball of wax.
Knowing that this wasn't an option, it came down to this: what really matters when it comes to hips/hip dysplasia (HD) and screening? To do it! Either the OFA method or PennHip are a valuable resource to you as a Boerboel breeder. Too many breeders do not screen at all! Flipping a coin and using either method is all you really have to do to be ahead of the game! Is that my whole article? No, but it could be as it is the most important thing to do.
Before discussing each method, here are a few points about hips and how breeding affects them:

¨ HD is a complicated inherited condition that is passed on to puppies by the action of several genes.
¨ Pups in the same litter may have a different “quality” of hips.
¨ Overall you will get the hips that are characteristic of the line of dogs and breed of dogs that you have. Fore example:73.3 % of all English Bulldogs submitted to OFA are dysplastic vs. 0% of Australian Terriers submitted.
¨ By breeding dogs whose ancestors and littermates have good hips to like dogs, the quality of hips will increase. The average hip score for the breed can be increased in the long run.
¨ Breeding a dog that has good hips but whose littermates or ancestors do not have good hips is less likely to produce good hips. Breeding a dog whose hips are fair but is from a litter and line with good hips is more likely to produce a dog with good hips.
¨ You cannot tell (in all but the most severe cases) the quality of a dogs hips by watching how it "moves", how it lies down, or how it jumps. Dogs with mild to severe dysplasia can and do exist without showing any signs of the disease.
Message: Pick a bloodline that is known to produce good hips, the more good ancestors in a pedigree, the better chances you have to purchase or produce good hips. X-ray HD screening is relatively new to many boerboel lines, so in some cases we may only have one generation of data.
Both OFA and PennHIP methods are based upon the interpretation of radiographs of the subjects hips. OFA varies from PennHip in the number of views and positioning of the animal in the radiograph. They also differ in how the radiographs are used to determine hip quality. OFA utilizes one view, what I would call the "traditional" view, dog on their back, legs parallel and in a line with the body as shown above. PennHip uses three different views for evaluation as depicted in figures 1-3. Figure one shows the traditional OFA radiograph which is also one of the PennHIP views. Figure two represents the distracted (stretched) view of the joint. The ball of the femur is moved to show the looseness of the joint. The looseness of the joint (which PennHip uses to predict the likelihood of developing HD) is measured from this view. The third PennHip view (figure 3) is of the joint in a state of compression which is used to judge how well the ball and socket fit together as a unit. Hip dysplasia frequently results in

changes to the shape of the ball or socket joint which will be reflected in a poor fit.
So how are these radiographs used to make a hip rating?
Radiographs sent to OFA are processed and copies are sent to three different board certified radiologists. Again OFA uses the one view depicted in Figure 1. The radiologists assign them a grade based on the appearance of the joint. They grade how it fits together, whether there are any signs of HD. Overall there are nine anatomic areas of the joint that factor into the grading. The grading system has 7 different ratings: Excellent, Good, Fair, Borderline, Mild, Moderate, and Severe. Only the first three rating are considered passing by OFA standards.
The PennHIP method obtains joint information from the standard OFA view, gathers joint congruity (joint fit) readings from the compression view and calculates joint laxity (looseness) readings from the distraction view. PennHIP calculates the distraction index (DI) from mechanical measurements taken from the radiograph (fig 3) and calculates a ratio of the “looseness” of the joint when distressed. You will see PennHIP ratings of .30, .50 etc. What this roughly refers to is how far the ball is out of the socket when distracted. So a dog that had a rating of .40 has a joint that is 40% out of socket when distracted and a .75 rating means that the joint is 75% out of socket when distracted.
PennHIP looks at joint shape, appearance of hip damage, and joint looseness. The main thrust of the PennHIP procedure is relating the looseness of the hip joint to the potential for a joint to develop HD. Loose hips will not always become dysplastic but are more likely too. PennHIP provides an average rating for each breed of dog and compares your dog to the breed as a whole. Studies have shown that all dogs with a rating of 0.30 or less have been free of HD. PennHIP ratings can be done at any age (over 4 months).
OFA relies on the shape of the joint and its final appearance as an adult to determine the rating. OFA issues a preliminary rating before the age of two years and a final rating after two years of age. Only dogs with the ratings of Excellent, Good, or Fair are acceptable for breeding.
Both methods can be used to determine the condition of a dog's joint (and subsequently the likelihood of developing HD) at the minimum age of 4 months with 90% accuracy when compared to ratings of the same dog at 24 months of age. Preliminary screening at this age can also prevent some heartbreak in the long run (it is better to find out a pup is dysplastic at 4 months than after setting your hopes and dreams on him for two years).
This article barely scratches the surface of the topic of hip dysplasia. I urge everyone to visit the websites for both methods and evaluate their differences for yourself. Take time to contact veterinarians who do each method and discuss which method suits your needs best. Most importantly pick one and use it! Hopefully we can work with other breeders and the parent organization to make hip screening mandatory for registration and breeding of the boerboel.

Radiograph images courtesy of PennHIP




Orthepedic Foundation for Animals
2300 E Nifong Boulevard
Columbia, Missouri 65201-3856
Phone (573) 442-0418
Fax (573) 875-5073
OFA Website: www.offa.com
Email:ofa@offa.org

University of Pennsylvania Hip Improvement Program.
PennHIP website: http://www.vet.upenn.edu/pennhip/
The PennHIP program is overseen by the:

Synbiotics Corporation
11011 Via Fronterra
San Diego, CA 92127
USA
Phone (800) 228-4305
Fax (858) 451-5719
http://www.synbiotics.com
Email: info@sybiotics.com

Wow, sorry to hear that LAN. I have a 13 year old yellow lab and I've had it in the back of my mind for a long time that he might end up with dysplasia... He's been really lucky. He does have arthritis though, and we have this powder that we sprinkle over his food 2x a day that contains glucosamine, chondroitin, and essential fatty acids. He's a lot less stiff after he goes for walks when he's on the stuff, and he doesn't limp around after he gets up from a long nap. I don't know if it does anything for dysplasia, but it couldn't hurt. It's really helped Grunt's joints, maybe it would do something for Kona. You can get it at most pet stores or farm stores, it's about $20 for two-months supply for a dog of 100#.

Good luck with everything.

For us when our dog got about 8ish , lab size or abit smaller, he was getting sore and won't run around like an idiot any more . ASA and glucosamine fixed him up fine. We did later switch to a product called Recovery. Basically powder developed for horses but there is a human version. Its glucosamine, MSM, Vit c and E and special ingredients but the first 4 are the vast majority by weight. Combo did the same as the ASA and a powder easier to give rather than pills. AS it works so well on the dog I started taking the stuff and later just the main ingredients. Even after a hard work out or day skiing never really feel too much the next day.

edit
the glucosamine should help with tendons ligements that sort of thing but will take time to make any better
the MSM - see below over time is supposed to speed recovery from injury
Vit c and e - natural anti imflamitories/ anti oxidents

I have a 9 year old yeller lab that has had joint problems, partly because of large body on small frame, mostly because of 6 years of hard upland hunting. One thing that I have found to help ease her discomfort (in addition to baby aspirin) is a product called MSM. It is a white powdery substance, (99.9% organic sulfur) completely orgranic and safe. Marley gets a little on top of her food daily and it helps. No more chukar terrain for her, but she still gets out for pheasants.

As the owner of a both a pound mutt and a "pedigree" chocolate lab, I have to chime in here because I've done a lot of homework on this subject:

A) Dysplasia can be avoided in pedigrees with responsible breeding. Saying that this condition is a reason not to get a pedigree dog is just plain ignorant. Do your homework, request the parents' xrays and certification as well as lineage and you can normally avoid this stuff. Plenty of my friends' pound mutts have dysplasia--I can think of four off the top of my head.

B) Glucosamine helps a lot, especially during the formative years. I chose to pay quite a bit of money to feed Paco G pills AND feed him Eukanuba with G in it during his first 15 months, even though his parents were both rated "excellent" in the hip category. I would strongly recommend it despite it's uppity cost.

C) Avoid deep snow, mud, etc., especially during formative years. This is extremely hard on the dogs' hips and joints. Bella is starting to get a bit of arthritis at 7 y/o because she's been a lifelong skiing companion. Do I regret it? Absolutely not because she still skis and it's her favorite thing to do. But labs and sheperards are very, very prone to dysplasia.

D) Once it's diagnosed, you can be somewhat limited in options. Find a specialist, even if it's outside of your region, as this can make a big difference in the results. My neighbor's lab/shep mutt just got total hip replacement about a year or so ago. I'm not personally all that thrilled with the results, but supposedly he's in less pain. He's also very fat, so it's hard to tell if he's any more inclined to exercise or if he's just fat. I have heard of more successful results but haven't seen them myself.

GOOD LUCK, KONA!

A friend of mine has a lab with hip dysplasia. Her dog is now 12. Asprin and swimming seem to do the trick. They are lucky because they have an inground pool so the dog can go in and out whenever it wants. Good luck but water therapy seems to really help

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Originally Posted by mrw

A friend of mine has a lab with hip dysplasia. Her dog is now 12. Asprin and swimming seem to do the trick. They are lucky because they have an inground pool so the dog can go in and out whenever it wants. Good luck but water therapy seems to really help

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This depends on the type of dysplasia, me thinks. There is one where the "ball and socket" of the hip are missing the socket, so the femur has no where to park, per se. The other type is tendon/ligament related and is more treatable via swimming, etc....from my recollection.

You maybe surprised how helpful the glucosamine can be. I had an older dog that was unable to walk down stairs. After about a month the on glucosamine the dog was jumping off of the stairs to running down squirrels in our a yard. After watching the dog I started taking the stuff myself so I could keep thrashing myself in the bumps. Recently studies are showing how effective glucosamine can be and the prices have shot up a ton. You can usually get it at like a Sam's Club alot cheaper if you get there brand.
1500 mg is about what they recomend for people so you could probably cut that down alot for a dog based on size.

My new pup gets the glucosamine daily mixed with some peanut butter (1000 mg.)
My last dog lived to be 15 and was pretty active up until the end. I hope your pup starts to feel better.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

Breeders/Puppy Farmers suck ass. People buying pets from them are just adding to the over population problem.

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There can be a huge difference between a breeder and a puppy farm. The breeder I got my lab from is very responsible and treats all his dogs with respect and doesn't underfeed, beat, or mistreat them in any way.

LAN sorry to hear about your puppy. I have had two dogs with hip dysplasia. Both pure bred chessapeakes. The first one when it affected her she had to completely remove all weight from the leg. I only remember seeing this happen twice. The vast majority of time she was just fine (at least she never gave an indication that she was in pain).

The second chessy we ended up having to put down. Similar story as Mac Daddy's. We were going to breed her for family and select friends when the she was diagnosed with HD. Since the breeder guaranteed her against it they told us to put her down and the would give us a new puppy. We declined and had her spade and the breeder gave us another puppy. It wasn't until Aspen was over 8 years of age before we even noticed that she had HD and the signs were very minor (e.g. running at full speed she favored one side only slightly). It wasn't until she got over 9 years before she had a lot of joint problems (probably had arthritus in front legs). That's when she made the sad trip to the vet.

Bottom line of this is some dogs can function normally for long periods of time with HD. I hope your dog is one of them.

Sorry LAN.

What the Reverand said.

Hip dysplasia occurs when the socket (on the pelvis) doesn't form around the ball (on the femur). I've never heard of corrective surgery for it. It's entirely hereditary and good breeders use the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals to certify breeding stock (the OFA number is printed on the AKC registration). In some breeds (like Irish Setters) only OFA certified dogs and bitches are used.

But none of that helps you. Glucosamine will help lube the joints. A second opinion would be a good idea. The X-ray is normally taken with the dog in its back and its legs straight back (the OFA method). The vet should be willing to give you the X-ray and the OFA might review it for you (for a fee of course).

It could also be scoliosis (deformation of the spine) or spondylosis (spinal osteoarthritis) but that isn't good either. It could also be joint damage from a previous injury (puppies will crash into things on occasion). That might be treatable (with rest, pain killers, and anti-imflamatories).

edit - for a 7 month medium to large dog I would suspect longbone (i.e. growing pains) long before I would suspect arthritis. They can be in a lot of discomfort when their skeleton is out of kilter.

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Originally Posted by Grange

There can be a huge difference between a breeder and a puppy farm. The breeder I got my lab from is very responsible and treats all his dogs with respect and doesn't underfeed, beat, or mistreat them in any way.

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Yep - there are lot's of reputable breeders out there. Ours gave hips and eye guarantee allowed us to have our vet check out pups and almost as importantly the parents. We had frequent visits to see the litter and they had temprament tests done to match dogs to prospective owners. She has a long waiting list.

Check through breed associations and go for breeders who breed working dogs rather than show dogs.

My Golden is absolute perfection.

Our vet is a fantastic guy. Smart and caring. He said that her hips were so bad (both are dislocated) that glucosamine wouldn't do anything to help at this point. She doesn't have arthritis at this time, but the balls of her femur are totally outside of the socket. We went over the x-ray together, and he sent it home with me in case I wanted to take it to a surgeon. I desperately want her to be better, but we can't afford a $5,000 triple pelvic osteotomy or a $10,000 bilateral total hip replacement.

We'll give her plenty of aspirin, lots of treats and let her sit around on her bed in front of the fireplace as much as she pleases. The less weight bearing on her back legs, the better.

All we wanted was to adopt a healthy dog who would be with us for a while. Guess that's not in the cards for us. :(

Edit: We're not interested in dogs who are coming from breeders. We always promised each other that we would only get dogs from shelters that needed a loving home. Seems that it's bitten us in the ass now.

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Originally Posted by LAN

We're not interested in dogs who are coming from breeders. We always promised each other that we would only get dogs from shelters that needed a loving home. Seems that it's bitten us in the ass now.

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Don't give up. You gave her a quality of life she would not otherwise have had, and when the time comes you will do what is best for all of you. There are too many other dogs that would appreciate that same chance for you to allow this to halt your intentions.

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Originally Posted by LAN

Seems that it's bitten us in the ass now.

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Absofuckinglutely not, LAN! You get HUGE Karma points and Kona has a mom and dad who love her to death. What did she have before that? You win because you did the right thing and she wins because you did the right thing. Cheers to you, good lady!

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Originally Posted by LAN

Our vet is a fantastic guy. Smart and caring. He said that her hips were so bad (both are dislocated) that glucosamine wouldn't do anything to help at this point. She doesn't have arthritis at this time, but the balls of her femur are totally outside of the socket. We went over the x-ray together, and he sent it home with me in case I wanted to take it to a surgeon. I desperately want her to be better, but we can't afford a $5,000 triple pelvic osteotomy or a $10,000 bilateral total hip replacement.

We'll give her plenty of aspirin, lots of treats and let her sit around on her bed in front of the fireplace as much as she pleases. The less weight bearing on her back legs, the better.

All we wanted was to adopt a healthy dog who would be with us for a while. Guess that's not in the cards for us. :(

Edit: We're not interested in dogs who are coming from breeders. We always promised each other that we would only get dogs from shelters that needed a loving home. Seems that it's bitten us in the ass now.

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You're giving Kona a pretty good life; she's the one whose been bit in the ass (so to speak).

Another (future) option is doggy rescue -- many breed clubs rescue abandoned dogs "of their own kind." They're always looking for companions for their dogs.

Thanks everyone, for all the advice and support.

As most of you know stuff like this is tough, when it hits your little furry best friend. I was completely prepared to deal with this at 8 years old, I had no idea we would see this at 8 months old.

She's a great dog, super friendly and tons of energy. She still wants to play no matter what, which makes it hard for me right now because I know what's wrong with her... and she doesn't.

LAN and I talked about it again last night and came up with much the same conclusion that has been suggested here. She was a rescue dog, and who knows where she would have gone had we not picked her out that day. We're just happy to give her the life we can.

And who knows. She's still under a year old and not full grown. I have some dumb hope that she will grow into her legs a little and things may be better for a while.

I've posted this one before, I'll get some more recent ones up hopefully soon.

'what'chu lookin' at', 4 months:

She's so freaking cute. :(

Cool looking dog. One other suggestion is to give the dog Ester-C along with the glucosamine. I have a bullmastiff that is currently given 500 mg of GC and 1000mg of ester-c, twice a day. He has been given this combo since he was 3 months old. His hips sound awful when he stretches but has yet to show any lameness. I believe that this is due to the supplements. There are some amazing studies that show ester-c can do wonders with dogs that have mild to severe hip dysplasia. Hope this helps and good luck.

Here is a link about MSM.

http://www.kalahealth.com/msmanimals.htm

Ester-C: Miracle Cure for Hip Dysplasia???

By Larry Mueller, Hunting Dogs Editor, Outdoor Life.
Reprinted from Outdoor Life, January, 1996.

An acquaintance of mine, B.J. Richardson, was calling from Texas, doubt and hope in his voice. "My English Pointer isn't a year old, and he's already lame in the rear end, especially the left hip," Richardson said. "The X-rays show hip dysplasia. The veterinarian says there are two choices: operate to alleviate the pain, or put the dog down. I can't afford one and won't do the other. Is it true that Vitamin C might help?"

I had to say that I'd never heard of Vitamin C curing canine hip dysplasia, but I was aware that veterinarian Wendell Belsfield of San Jose, CA, did prevent CHD -- or least its symptoms -- in eight litters of German shepherds, a breed that is prone to crippling abnormal development of a dog's hip joints. In those instances, all of the dogs' parents had CHD or had previously whelped pups that became dysplastic. Belsfield gave the bitches Vitamin C throughout pregnancy and lactation. The pups received Vitamin C from weaning until they were two years old. None of the pups developed CHD during that entire period.

Though Belsfield's work wasn't scientific in the strict sense, it certainly indicated that CHD could be prevented. Still I couldn't see how the joint could be remodeled once it had grown improperly, at least not without surgery. However, Vitamin C therapy seemed to be Richardson's only hope, so I told him what I knew.

Many readers had written and told me that their arthritic dogs normally were laid up after a few hours in the field, but when given Vitamin C, they could hunt several days in a row. None had said they did it with dogs that had CHD, but maybe....

I also recalled reading about the efforts of Dr. Bob Cathcart, a medical doctor in California who championed the use of Vitamin C in curing a wide variety of joint ailments and illnesses. Much of his work centered around using the vitamin in large quantities, increasing the doses until the body reaches "bowel tolerances." Though Cathcart's work was with human patients, many veterinarians adopted his method, saying that Vitamin C should be given in increasing doses until the dog's stools loosen, at which point the dose should be backed off a half a gram or a gram at a time until the stools became firm again. At that point, the dog's body receives the maximum Vitamin C that it can utilize.

I also understood that a superior form of the vitamin is Ester-C, which can be purchased in health food stores. The vitamin in Ester-C is molecularly locked to calcium, so it doesn't cause the acidity problems normally associated with ascorbic acid (the common form of Vitamin C), which can upset a dog's stomach. Ester-C also has natural C metabolites that get it into the cells faster and more effectively (common ascorbic acid is slower getting out of the blood serum, so it passes through the kidneys, where much of it is rapidly lost in the urine).

Pinto's Rebound

A month or two later, I heard that Pinto, Richardson's dog, had begun improving less than a week after receiving maximum doses of Ester-C. Pinto, the grandson of Miller's Chief -- an 11-time champion in horseback-style bird-dog trials -- was now running like the wind. I was as surprised as I was delighted.

Two years later, I was in Texas and dropped in to see Pinto. Richardson had kept him on a maintenance dose of Ester-C. The dog was moving with a fluid grace and power in the hips. Twice, for a step or two, I saw a bunny hop, suggesting that not everything was 100 percent correct. But both times, Pinto immediately shifted back to a normal gait.

I still couldn't understand how Ester-C could remodel a defective joint, but I was hopeful. Nobody I knew whose debilitated dog had improved clinically on Ester-C had ever taken X-rays of the joints, so I asked Richardson to have X-rays taken.

He did and mailed me the original X-ray taken two years before and a new one. I showed both to Dianna K. Stuckey, a board certified radiologist in St. Louis, who looked at the original and pointed out the hip dysplasia with the left hip most severe. The second? "Arthritis that customarily follows hip dysplasia," she said. I explained Pinto's quick and lasting response to Ester-C. "How could this dog go from lame to moving freely, and apparently without pain, in a few days -- and stay that way without something improving in the joints?"

"We occasionally see this," Stuckey said. "A dog is arthritic yet moves as if it feels no pain. We don't know why. Great 'heart' maybe, or high pain tolerance."

Mystery Unfolds

I'm sure that veterinarians do see this. But the answer to my question, Pinto's improvement was not because of great heart or high pain tolerance. He had been hurting and he had been limping badly. If his response to such pain improved in just a few days, something caused that change.

Dr. Chuck Noonam of Weston, CT also compared the X-rays. He noticed slight improvement in the severity of the dysplasia but said the hip joint had clearly succumbed to degenerate arthritis from the dysplastic hip joint banging around in and out of the socket.

"Eighty-three percent of dysplastic dogs either show an improvement in their hip dysplasia or they learn to deal with the problem as they grow older," Noonan said. "The second X-ray shows that the dysplasia is slightly less severe, but because of the arthritis, the joint is worse overall than in the earlier X-ray. It is possible that the Vitamin C was helping to sort of lubricate the joint so the dog felt less pain."

In my investigations, I had found that Pinto's results from Ester-C weren't unique. Soon after Richardson first called, I received a letter from Steve Dudley of Arizona. His young black Lab, who showed great promise at hunting Gambel's quail, went lame with CHD. Dudley's vet suggested that Dudley replace the hip -- or expect to put the dog down by age four. Dudley tried Ester-C instead and the dog promptly improved. Kept on Ester-C, the dog lived until age 13 without showing signs of soreness, lameness, or unwillingness to hunt, Dudley wrote.

more...

Flood of Proof

My investigation also led to Charles Docktor, an Arizona veterinarian who was the first to test Ester-C for its effectiveness in healing joint problems. In 1983, he used Ester-C on a large number of arthritic dogs, finding that 75 percent improved in various degrees in a short period of time.

Independently, a continent away, Dr. Geir Erick Berge, a veterinarian in Oslo, Norway, performed a similar study, that was reported in the August-September 1990 issue of The Norwegian Veterinary Journal. Berge selected 100 dogs with a variety of joint ailments. His testing revealed that 75 percent of the dogs rapidly improved on Ester-C, some only slightly, some almost totally. Dr. Berge added that large amounts of Vitamin C metabolites, substances essential to a body's metabolic processes, are required in rebuilding diseased joint tissue.

Corroborating data were also reported by Dr. N. Lee Newman, who conducted 18 months of clinical tests using Ester-C to combat degenerative joint disease in performance horses. She reported a remarkable 90 percent success rate, ranging from good to excellent. Furthermore, 80 percent of the improved horses remained sound after Ester-C was discontinued. Newman credited supplemental Ester-C with maintaining the integrity of collagen and connective tissue and with mobilizing white cells in the immune system, while deactivating free radicals that damage cell membranes.

But other respected voices were making contradictory statements. The Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine Animal Health newsletter in May 1995 denied that Vitamin C was of any value for either preventing or treating skeletal diseases in dogs. "There have been absolutely no confirmed reports that Vitamin C is helpful in any such instances," the newsletter stated. It went on to theorize that supplemental Vitamin C has no value because dogs produce adequate amounts of the vitamin in their livers.

But that reasoning is questionable. Vitamin C production varies from dog to dog, individual bodily needs vary, and circumstances -- health and environment -- vary enormously. "Adequate" in human medicine only means enough Vitamin C to prevent scurvy. What is adequate for a strict carnivore like a dog? And in any case, "adequate" should not be assumed to be a synonym for "optimum."

This is where a Vitamin C standoff occurs, and getting people to change their scientific opinion is like asking them to change their religion. In Cornell's favor, the evidence that has existed supporting the use of Vitamin C on dysplastic dogs is heavily anecdotal. Even the various veterinarians' research that has been cited was actually efficacy tests -- that is, all of the dogs tested were given similar doses of the vitamin and no controlled comparisons were made. Efficacy testing strongly suggests conclusive evidence, but it does not provide scientific proof.

The Acid Test

But in 1994, veterinarian L. Philips Brown presented the results of scientifically acceptable "double-blind crossover" study on the effects of Vitamin C to a national conference on holistic veterinary medicine. Brown, the owner of the largest veterinary hospital on Cape Code for 22 years, tested Vitamin C on 50 dogs with serious joint problems. The dogs were among a population of more than 500 canines at a large animal sanctuary in Utah. It should be noted here that representatives of Inter-Cal, makers of Ester-C, specifically asked Brown to study the vitamin because they felt it could have a major role in the treatment of joint abnormalities. Dave Stenmoe, one of the representatives of the manufacturer, says "We told [Brown] not to take our word for anything." Just to keep an open mind and conduct a scientific comparison of Ester-C, ordinary Vitamin C, and a placebo. He finally agreed to do it.

Brown, along with the Utah sanctuary's resident veterinarian, hand-picked the dogs with the worst cases of joint disease and placed them in five groups.

After four weeks of testing, the supplements were withdrawn for three weeks. Then, each dog was crossed over to a different group and received another supplement for another four weeks. After yet another three-week layoff, 60 percent of the dogs were switched to a third supplement. The remaining 40 percent went back to whatever they were given during the first four weeks. At the end, mobility scores were calculated to determine the average for each of the five groups.

The results were impressively in favor of Ester-C therapy. Seventy-eight percent of the dogs on 2,000mg of Ester-C experienced improved mobility within four or five days. The average improvement score was 1.52. About 60 percent of the improved dogs relapsed when Ester-C was discontinued, but the group that returned to Ester-C in the third phase then regained mobility. Handlers reported no negative side effects.

On the low (850mg) dose of Ester-C, only 52 percent of the dogs improved, with an average score of 0.45. Obviously, size of dose was important. Of dogs receiving 2,000mg of Ester-C with extra minerals, 62 percent improved by an average score of 0.87. Why Ester-C without extra minerals had better results remains unknown.

Ordinary Vitamin C improved 44 percent of the dogs, with a score of 0.67. As expected, no noticeable change occurred among dogs on the placebo.

Not even the most dyed-in-the-wool skeptic can ignore the results of such a double-blind crossover study. But the success of Vitamin C in treating CHD can still be questioned, or even denied, because X-rays show that the joints remain loose or arthritis remains. Even Brown confirms that X-rays taken for his study reveal defective skeletal structures even after the Ester-C treatment.

Soft Tissue Factor

But those who see improvement with Ester-C are looking primarily at an animal's behavior -- they see an improved ability to function. How can both proponents and skeptics consider themselves correct? Perhaps by each being half right.

A joint is not bone alone. Soft tissue -- cartilage and synovial membrane -- exist between bones to permit movement. If such tissue deteriorates, movement becomes more painful. Vitamin C is essential in the making and rebuilding of soft tissue because it promotes the growth of Collagen, a tough, stringy "mortar" that holds cells together. At the same time, the soft tissue also holds water, which maintains compression resistance to cushion the joint -- this is the "lubrication" described by Noonan in his assessment of Pinto's X-rays.

In healthy cartilage, normal cell loss is balanced by the rebuilding of cells. Under diseased or inflammatory conditions, cell loss is excessive. In the case of a dog's hip joint, this can mean that adequate cushioning no longer exists. The high demand for Vitamin C may begin exceeding the amount made in the dog's liver, so deterioration continues. Or supplemented Vitamin C may turn the process around.

Field experience, although still anecdotal, suggests that dogs on Ester-C lead full lives without terrible pain and debilitation. Ester-C may prove to be a wondrous holistic cure, but OUTDOOR LIFE cautions that it's too early to state definitively that Vitamin C can cure or rectify canine hip dysplasia. Some doctors contend that the treatment is merely a Band-Aid on a far more serious problem.

We should add one point. Hip dysplasia is at least partially inheritable. And it is not a simple, single-gene defect. There is now concern that dysplastic dogs returned to mobility may also be returned to reproduction, which would further spread the malady. It is fair to say that there appears to be a great deal of hope for the benefits of Vitamin C, but before administering the vitamin to your dog, consult your veterinarian. And until more is known, don't breed that dog.

http://workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm

Thanks for the article, truth. I'm going to start investigating supplements. I started Kona on aspirin yesterday, per my vet's suggestion and she threw up all morning. I could tell she felt bad for soiling her bed cover and all of our old towels. Finally after 4 hours of vomiting, she just dry heaved for a while. I left her alone while I ran some errands and while I was away, she didn't puke at all - I could tell she was feeling better by the time I got home, because her wag was back and she pounced up on the couch. Poor girl. :(

Children's Emetrol for nausea work wonders on sick dogs. Sadly I know far too much about this topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LAN

I started Kona on aspirin yesterday, per my vet's suggestion and she threw up all morning.

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We always used coated aspirin for the dogs.