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Not sure if this belongs in tech talk?
Girlguide is looking at a new car and thinking about the
1) Potiac Vibe AWD
2) toyota Matrix AWD
3) Susuki Areo AWD
I know that the vibe and matrix are about the same car, and yes she would love another subi, but can't afford one. Anyother thoughts?
Any other AWD sub compact cars that are cheap?
Anyone work in the car industry, in Canada, and want some fat skis, for a deal on a car? Can travel to pick it up ;)
Thanks
Thats a tough niche in the car industry....what price was she looking at? I was gonna suggest an outback but as you say, they are pricer than those three you mentioned. What about used? There are some great deals out there....
do you NEED AWD? A FWD with snow tires can go 90% of the places an AWD with snow tires can in the winter. AWD is just slightly more stable, the majority of grip still comes from the front wheels.
yes she needs AWD, heli guide, driving in the middle of no where, DEEP snow, etc. and years of driving a subi wagon. I wish she had other options.
New vs used. The sub compacts are all too new for used (just came out this year) Wants to have a NEW car, just cuz...
thanks guys
Also there are a lot of places where the highway dept. will make you chain up if you don't have AWD. This despite the fact that 4WD/AWD doesn't make you *stop* any faster, which causes most of the accidents...
Well if she is driving in deep snow, why isn't she looking at an SUV? AWD has great grip but those three you mentioned don't have the clearence for big snowstorms if she is a heli guide. If she's in deep snow a wrangler or the like with some AT tires is what she needs.
What about a Subi Impreza?
Cut and paste from kbb.com (US/WA MSRP):
Subaru IMPREZA 2.5 RS
AWD Sport Wagon 4D
$18,670
Pontiac VIBE
AWD Sport Wagon 4D
$21,210
Toyota MATRIX
4WD Sport Wagon 4D (Auto)
$17,835
Suzuki AERIO SX
AWD Wagon 4D (Auto)
$17,794
Maybe the rebates, tariffs, or pricing are different in Canada but an Impreza would be my choice.
or the Subie Outback Sport
Subaru IMPREZA OUTBACK SPORT
5LE AWD Sport Wagon 4D
18,983.00
And although I haven't looked at the details of the other cars, I recently bought a Subaru and one advantage it had over all of the other cars I was looking at was that it came loaded with standard features. I got everything I needed without adding a single option. The other cars required several options that drove their prices much higher than the Subie.
[/beating of dead horse]
if i spent 19 or 20 grand on a pontiac i would kill myself for not spending 19 or 20 grand on a brandy new tacoma instead. Then i could do crazy stuff like tow a sled, fit all of the CMH expolsives i want in the bed, and burl around in deep snow.
I thought only couch people bought Pontiacs
If you want the ultimate small car with 4wd, try and find an old Subaru Justy. They run forever.... :fmicon:
Seriously, though, go with an Impreza...
from that list, the matrix is the best by farrrr..
do not get the pontiac.
plz, it has to be the ugliest car out there.
I'm with basom. A small 4x4 pickup will probably be much more useful for her purposes than a micro grocery getter at the same price. Throw about 300 lbs of sand bags in the back and it'll handle snow easy.
I got a 91 VW GTI that I'd almost trade you for a pair of skis. But you gotta come out to Halifax to get it. But its not AWD, good in snow though.
The subie's the only one of those with any clearance. I've driven both the 2.5rs and the matrix and would take the subie in a heartbeat, especially considering:
2.5rs - $22,995ca
Vibe AWD - $23,755ca
Matrix AWD - $22,580ca
Thanks guys,
She wants a compact for the $/km factor, we have a toyota truck already (4 door, desiel, 1/2ton, 4wd)
Nor sure where, or why, she thought that the subi's are that much more then the others?? Also she would prefer the fact that it is avail as a standard. She likes dirving stick after all ;)
Also I'm not sure why the Vibe bad vs Matrix good. I love toyota's too, but aren't the two cars almost the same? They sure look the same.
Do any maggots in AB work in the Auto industry?
I have a certain fondness for the Suzuki 4DR Vitara/Chevy Tracker. It's a truck with body on frame construction. It's 4WD, not AWD. GM no longer sells the Tracker for 2005 but some dealers might still have some sell. Cheap.
maybe check out a used 4wd truck. gas mileage not as good as a car of course. but you can get through way more snow in a truck. last year i get my 03 chevy Z71 through 2-3 feet of snow with no problem. that's with stock bridestone duelers.
mtnlion-
If you go Pontiac Vibe/ Toyota Matrix, you can probably get a better deal on the Pontiac -- seems like the American "big 3" run many more discounts, promotions, incentives, etc. than any import-branded models.
And, if this will work, I have about $1500 (US $) in GM Card bucks that I'll give you if you want it. I think it's transferable; just not sure about (a) to Canda, and (b) whether I have to be present to transfer it to you. (GM Card is a credit card that gives a % back towards purchase of a GM vehicle; the amount you accumulate can be added on top of any incentives, rebates, etc. -- basically make your best bargain, then add on the GM Card dollars. Can't be used with GM employee pricing.)
Let me know if you want it - I owe you for the ski bindings.
-Karl
They are exactly the same car with different badge and option packages. Friend of mine got a Vibe cause his dad used to work for gm. He got a discount and a car thats really a Toyota, what a deal!Quote:
Originally Posted by dubu
I've ridden in it a bunch, it seems good to me. Carries quite a bit of stuff for the size. His is an AT and gets around 30mpg on the highway. :biggrin:
How about the Honda CR-V?Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
Starting @ $28,500ca.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Get one of these baby. They're pretty good in the snow. And the WRC season is almost over, should be able to pick one up used pretty cheap :)
http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/486377.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
thnaks I have lots of GM bucks already.
I looks like subis might be in the running again with that new info.
still looking
Any Suziki info ?
looks like all the cars do have the same MSPR.
now part 2 of this.
$23000 MSRP.
what is a good deal for the reall street price.
I know with skis you have MSRP $1000
street price $800
good deal (cost + small %) $600
what should we be paying for a 2005 subi?
Find the dealer invoice cost. That's basically what the dealer pays for the car unless the manufacturer is offering special incentives, which reduce this. Shoot for something like $1,000 over invoice. If the car is very popular you may have to pay more than this, if the car isn't as popular you might get closer to invoice.
If you have a trade-in make sure you know how much it's worth (wholesale). Dealers commonly try to rook you on trade-ins.
www.edmunds.com is a good site for some of this info, but I'm not sure if they have Canadian prices or just U.S.
Other good locations for prices (I just went through this when buying my Subaru):
MSN Autos
Kelly Blue Book
Make sure you check the "incentives" section of Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds so you know what kickbacks are being offered to the dealer and to customers. Depending what they are right now, you might be able to get the car at or below invoice. And when the dealers start telling you that they can't go lower because they aren't making any money, remind them of the holdbacks. In the U.S. at least, the dealer gets money back/rebate from Subaru on every car sold. I guess its so they can show you the invoice and make you think you are getting a good deal. Edmunds lists the holdback for Subaru at 3%, but for some reason I think my earlier research found it to be either 1% or 2%. But I could be wrong about that.
Again, not sure about the relevance to Canadian prices. If available, I would encourage you to use carsdirect.com and other internet pricing tools (set up a separate free email account and give them a phone number you can ignore if necessary because these people are persistant (polite, but persistant). Note, however, that each referal from carsdirect.com, etc costs the internet sales manager like $50 (U.S.) so you might call up you local dealer, ask for the internet sales manager and tell them that you are trying to save them the referral fee, but that you expect to receive similar treatment and if you don't feel like you are, you will use the service anyway for another dealer.
Also, I don't know about the Canadian equivalents, but Subaru offers a VIP program to AASI/PSIA instructors and to members of IMBA (you have to be a member of IMBA for 6 months before you can use the VIP Program). The VIP program allows you to buy a Subaru at dealer invoice (I've been told there is still a kickback of a couple hundred bucks to the dealer from Subaru.)
Some good Subaru resources:
Subaru Outback.org (other models are discussed)
Ultimate Subaru Message Board (these guys are fanatics)
I just did this whole thing in August ('05 Outback) and I just helped another friend buy a Subaru last month ('05 impreza WRX), so feel free to post or PM any other questions. There's always the chance I will know the answer off the top of my head.
edit fer spellin', then edit for more info
to revive a dead thread,
one thing that is great about the subarus is that you can get the outbacks without the H6 engine with a manual transmission. alot of other AWD cars on that list don't offer a manual - gotta got automatic. so they get thrown out immediately. suby all the way. by the way - the outback sport is plenty big for two people + gear!
Thanks,
Ya it looks like the subi will be the winner, but she will not be buying untill after guiding season (more money then after heli guiding all winter)
I think that AMA (Alberta Motor ass) will have the dealer costs, Will call soon. Also a few pay sites $50 CAD for 5 dealesr costs.
So strange that no makers other then subi will do the standard and AWD.
Thanks for all the info guys
funny, because the matrix and the vibe are the same car.Quote:
Originally Posted by dubu
go subi.
other ways to decrease cost of buying a subi: become a member of IMBA (international mountain bike association) after 6 months or something you can apply through them to get a super deal. also, inquiring at first through the subaru website saves on dealer costs because they don't have to try and sell you the car - you pretty much order it over the net, the dealer contacts you, and you go pick it up. check out these options!
it's sad that more companies don't offer standard and AWD. i hammered a VW and Audi dealer about this for quite awhile one day - i want a golf or passat with AWD or an A6 wagon with a standard - all in one way or another not possible (except of the the allroad, which has got to be the dream car of this category) - and all i got out of them is that there is not enough interest out there for them to offer such a product. it's funny, cause over here in germany you can buy a passat or A6 wagon with AWD and standard - they just don't bring them over to the US. it's crap!
i remember when that matrix thing came out, my dad was all excited to get an AWD toyota in that size (remember the 4wd Tercel?) and then he found out that the AWD is only automatic, and well, there went that idea.
i guess that means all the more business for subaru...
Doesn't work in Canada.Quote:
Originally Posted by unionbowler
IMBA, Subaru VIP FAQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMBA Website
that's too bad...IMBA is international...oh well.
So buy the car in the US and import it. There are issues like daylight running lights but with the strong canuk dollar it can be the cheapest route.Quote:
Originally Posted by eDub
Actually, the '05 Subies come with daytime running lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Dog
However, I thought that there were some pretty serious taxes that made buying in the U.S. and importing to Canada financially impractical.
Current exchange rate: 1 USD = 1.18691 CAD
Damn. This season's trips to Whistler just got more expensive.
mntlion, I'd personally go for the Suby though I don't own one. I've done a few bike trips to Whistler and Sunshine Coast in my friend's Vibe, and have to say I was impressed! I have no idea how they handle in the snow, but the interior/cargo space was great for the wheelbase, and the dashtrim was pretty good too. I'm a VW guy but this was the first domestic I kinda liked. In this end I thought it was good bang for buck based on the price of the 2WD.
You have to pay GST (7%) when importing but you have to pay that up here too. You should avoid the state sales tax but that's just paperwork. I'm pretty sure there's no duty.Quote:
Originally Posted by eDub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Dog
There is quite a bit more to it than that, for anything less than 15 years old...I am just starting to learn all the hoops I have to jump through to import a 91 subie from PA to AB...its much easier to import a french bought car to the uk, from a one language to another and one side of the road to the other there is less BS and hoop jumping than here??????
It used to be that a vehicle had to be the current model year or more than 15 years old. Period. The end. With NAFTA that went away. The Registrar of Imported Vehicles (there's a government office of everything!) gives all the gory details and it doesn't look too bad. But since I've never gone through it, what do I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idris
would you be interested in a 2000 Subaru Outback sedan? It just rolled 70,000 miles, and has been a perfect car for me. I am entertaining the idea of selling it and going back to an old cherokee, I miss my old one. Anyway if you are interested in a smokin deal on a subie, give me a PM, I emptied my box.
I'll get back to you on those binders soon.
INDY