Don't be ashamed of America!

All this "I'm ashamed to be American" and "I'm moving to Canada" is a bunch of bullshit. If you're ashamed to be an American due to the results of this election, then you're ashamed to be a part of a democracy. Everyone's vote in this country counts the same. 58 million people thought Bush was more fit for the presidency than Kerry, and to somehow label them all as ignorant, uneducated idiots is rediculous and self-centered.

You disrespect America when you say you are ashamed. You disrespect the liberty and freedom so many have died to protect. We all have the privilege of voting on our President. If you're going to embrace democracy, you've got to embrace its results. You have to take responsibility for living in a democracy, and if you're ashamed of that, well...you know where you can go.

Dissention is one thing, but this is different. Dissention has a point, a purpose. Dissention is working for change. Moving to Canada isn't working for change, it's quitting. Claiming embarassment over the results of democracy isn't working for change. You can't guilt trip 4 million people into changing their vote. You don't have to like the president, but at least respect the way he got there. Respect that he is your president, and be proud that you at least had a say in the matter.

Now let's get back to the friggin' stoke.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~find0029/Ski 24.jpg

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Originally Posted by FNG

Everyone's vote in this country counts the same.

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It is too bad you are so poorly informed about how the country works. Please take a civics lesson, then come back and present your argument.

Good messege

Great Stoke

You've missed the point of my post entirely. I don't see anyone in here saying "I'm ashamed of the electoral college"

-edit- directed @ grrr

FNG, wanna run for Prez with me in 2022? :cool:

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Originally Posted by grrrr

It is too bad you are so poorly informed about how the country works. Please take a civics lesson, then come back and present your argument.

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How does it really work, grrrr? Keep in mind that we're a democratic republic, not a democracy, by necessity.

You wanna talk about disrespect. George Bush has........Ah fuck it.

Nice stoke.

"and to somehow label them all as ignorant, uneducated idiots is rediculous and self-centered."

Not really. Polls in the last few weeks have showed that up to 75% of Bush supporters thought there was an Iraq/Al Qaeda connection. That is pure ignorance.

"you don't have to like the president, but at least respect the way he got there. Respect that he is your president"

He is ONLY here because he stole the election in 2000. How could I ever respect that? I will NEVER respect that he is my president until he does one thing I agree with or feel is good for this country as a WHOLE.

"and be proud that you at least had a say in the matter."

You do have that right I'm proud of the high voter turnout even though it didn't turn out my way.

http://www.thrall.net/dav/images/Sil...0196.sized.jpg

Well, I should point out that just over 200 years ago, a bunch of people called it quits in their current government. They felt they were oppressed, that their views were not respected by the government, and that they had no other choice but to leave.

We ARE a nation of quitters.

So, I wonder what it would take for New England and the West coast to make like Quebec and try to succeed?

Amen, Brutha FNG!
Whether your man won or lost one of the things that makes this country different form a lot of the world is that once the election is over we don't take up arms and start killing the other side. The system as a whole works. 49% of the people at any one time may not like the way it comes out but that's why we have an election every 4 years and not lifetime appointments.

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Originally Posted by robokill1981

He is ONLY here because he stole the election in 2000. How could I ever respect that?

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Do you respect JFK as a president?

FNG & 13 in 2022.

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Originally Posted by joshbu

So, I wonder what it would take for New England and the West coast to make like Quebec and try to succeed?

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Why are they currently failing or something? Is the rest of Canada a miserable failure? ;)

I say as long as you voted, you have the right to question, argue, debate, complain and disagree, etc.

BUT

THIS is the place for the stoke, the TR's and bikini/ski videos etc. The election happened, some of us feel like we won, some of us feel like we lost, some of us are confused, proud, disgusted, elated, scared, and on and on.

I must admit that I am a little sick of the political threads, but at the same time, I usually just skip over 'em if I don't feel like reading them.

As long as the stoke keeps comin', and it greatly out weighs the politics, then I'm happy.

my .02

:D

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Originally Posted by FNG

Do you respect JFK as a president?

FNG & 13 in 2022.

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JFK had the Supreme Court decide his Presidency too? Who knew. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by 365wp

http://www.thrall.net/dav/images/Sil...0196.sized.jpg

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niiice, i like that one

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Originally Posted by Grange

JFK had the Supreme Court decide his Presidency too? Who knew. :rolleyes:

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No it was the mob. The 1960 election was exceptionally close and many people argue that the mob through voter fraud (dead voters) pushed Kennedy over the top in Illinois and Texas. I really don't know all the facts surrounding it (1960) but I'd rather have the Supreme Court deciding to follow the original election laws than the mob literally stealing it.

FNG- I promise I will never ever be ashamed of this great country, No matter what happens EVER.


365- that pic is pimp

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Originally Posted by 13

How does it really work, grrrr? Keep in mind that we're a democratic republic, not a democracy, by necessity.

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Each vote does not count the same. 3 electoral votes in Wyoming = one vote/167,000 people

55 electoral votes in California = one vote/630,000 people

This does not apply only to electoral votes. The senate is 2 per state, regardless of population. In a "democratic republic", there would be equal representation. As is, we have a "semi-democratic republic".

I'm not ashamed of America, just most Americans.

As a people, we have just displayed either a disgusting set of principles, or a disgusting inability to think, or (probably) both.

"Reaching these goals will require the broad support of Americans. So today I want to speak to every person who voted for my opponent: To make this nation stronger and better I will need your support, and I will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust. A new term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation. We have one country, one Constitution and one future that binds us. And when we come together and work together, there is no limit to the greatness of America."

:fmicon:

I'm not moving anywhere ! that being said I am ashamed. If my friends were out in public acting like assholes I would be ashamed. since my "friends" voted to Re-elect a man who started an unjust war on false pretenses and promotes bigotry ( yes the whole no gay marriage act is bigoted pure and simple ! ) yeah that makes me ashamed.

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Originally Posted by A-wreck

FNG- I promise I will never ever be ashamed of this great country, No matter what happens EVER.

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Amazing...
Sad.

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The senate is 2 per state, regardless of population. In a "democratic republic", there would be equal representation

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That's why they have the congress.

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Originally Posted by board

I'm not moving anywhere ! that being said I am ashamed. If my friends were out in public acting like assholes I would be ashamed. since my "friends" voted to Re-elect a man who started an unjust war on false pretenses and promotes bigotry ( yes the whole no gay marriage act is bigoted pure and simple ! ) yeah that makes me ashamed.

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Being ashamed that Bush is the president of America doesn't mean you have to be ashamed to be an American. That's like saying you're ashamed to be a human being because your friends act like assholes.

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Originally Posted by PowderPig

Amazing...
Sad.

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What's amazing to ME is how many people from CO are complaining - yet Bush absolutely crushed Kerry in CO. Go figure. :fm:

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

What's amazing to ME is how many people from CO are complaining - yet Bush absolutely crushed Kerry in CO. Go figure. :fm:

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:smug: :bastard:

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Originally Posted by FNG

Being ashamed that Bush is the president of America doesn't mean you have to be ashamed to be an American. That's like saying you're ashamed to be a human being because your friends act like assholes.

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At times I'm conflicted about that. We are a schizophrenic creature capable of the most inspired beauty and the basest and vilest actions as well.

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

"Reaching these goals will require the broad support of Americans. So today I want to speak to every person who voted for my opponent: To make this nation stronger and better I will need your support, and I will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust. A new term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation. We have one country, one Constitution and one future that binds us. And when we come together and work together, there is no limit to the greatness of America."

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That would be great if his second term was like this. But his religious right backers may have something else to say about that. I don't think GW is evil or anything and maybe not as stupid as he comes across, ok not stupid at all. But the people around him seem , well , evil. Regan had a great cabinet but GW seems seems to do his hiring at the shop of evil motherfuckers.

some scuttlebut from my people is hinting at Bush following through with his pledge to reachout to Kerry voters by possibly bringing Gephardt and Lieberman into his cabinet.

I think this would be unprecedented. But so was a Black NSA and a Black Sec of State until four years ago.

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Originally Posted by 13

Keep in mind that we're a democratic republic, not a democracy, by necessity.

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WRONG.

the president has the ability to label anyone a enemy combatant and take away thier right to due process.
We are a military dictatorship.

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Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

some scuttlebut from my people is hinting at Bush following through with his pledge to reachout to Kerry voters by possibly bringing Gephardt and Lieberman into his cabinet.

I think this would be unprecedented.

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Clinton had two republicans in his cabinet during his second term.

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Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

some scuttlebut from my people is hinting at Bush following through with his pledge to reachout to Kerry voters by possibly bringing Gephardt and Lieberman into his cabinet.

I think this would be unprecedented. But so was a Black NSA and a Black Sec of State until four years ago.

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I completely forgot about Powell. Where the hell is he? Has there ever been a Sec of State with a lower profile. Hope its just that he's keeping a low profile so he can run with McCain in 2008.

Maybe GW should bring his dad into the Cabinet. So if he screws up GHW can grab him by the ears and twist. Also think GHW can keep the bible thumpers away from the front door.

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Originally Posted by FNG

You've missed the point of my post entirely. I don't see anyone in here saying "I'm ashamed of the electoral college"

-edit- directed @ grrr

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fuck it, here ya go

I'm ashamed (actually disgusted by) the electoral college

From this day forward I will not reach across the aisle to "heal this country." I dont give a fuck about the right wing and can guarantee that I will hold a grudge against the religious right. I grew up in a god fearing household but no god i've ever heard of would allow himself to be used like this.
So all of you fucking lemmings who allow your lives to be controlled by fear can go fuck yourselves.
The word freedom has lost its meaning and all of our forefathers who worked so hard to achive it should be ASHAMED of the this state. Who the fuck are you to tell me i cant have an abortion. Who the fuck are you to tell me i cant stick my dick in a dude for the rest of my life and die knowing that he would be inherit my estate.
Do not go gently into that good night.

i'm fuckin pissed now and ive got to go home and love my pregnant wife and figure out how to raise a child in a world that is controlled by the elite with the fearful as their army.

What a dark day for the fate of humanity.

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Originally Posted by grrrr

Each vote does not count the same. 3 electoral votes in Wyoming = one vote/167,000 people

55 electoral votes in California = one vote/630,000 people

This does not apply only to electoral votes. The senate is 2 per state, regardless of population. In a "democratic republic", there would be equal representation. As is, we have a "semi-democratic republic".

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Agreed. It's all semantics, really.

The electoral college is set up that way due to irregularities in the densities of the population within the borders of each individual state, as opposed to the density of the population within the borders of the U.S..

Sure, each state has at least 3 electoral votes, but very rarely do we have a faithless elector that bucks the majority vote of the constituents within his/her electorate. Come to think of it, I think it's only happened once, and that was a DC elector.

It always makes me laugh when people refer to us as a Democracy or a Republic when we've got a healthy dose of both going on.

I can't stand Powell.

McCain as Secretary of State would be reaaallllll niiiiice.

who were the clinton Republican appointees?

I'll never be ashamed of america, but I can be disheartened at its choice and fearful for its future. We may not have the freedoms tomorrow that we have today, that is what I'm afraid of, along with not being able to pay for the very things we take for granted today. I hope I'm wrong.