Heard many opinions. Been using it for many years despite thinking it really didn't work (was hoping it was). But now I am actually starting to think it does help a little.
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Heard many opinions. Been using it for many years despite thinking it really didn't work (was hoping it was). But now I am actually starting to think it does help a little.
Its all in your head. Placebo effect, which isn't a bad thing. If your feeling better you are feeling better. The amount you need to take each day in enormous for it to actually have any effect. Just my 2 pennies.
undecided ,I took it 2 or 3 yrs for a bad shoulder ,I was never sure if it really workedand I don't take it now
I tried it and chondroiton. Neither did anything for me. But, I swear I feel better when I take 1,000 mg/day of MSM. It's a lot cheaper than the others.
It does wonders for my dog.
I take it as well, I dont really notice any difference, but I ussually dont have any ailments either, I just take it as a preventative measure so I'm hopefully still skiing when I'm 90. I have no idea if it actually works like that.
In my experience with horses and dogs, it definitely works. A couple of my older polo horses move with much more freedom after 2 weeks on. My stupid-ex-GF (sexgf) had an ageing lab, if I gave her the doggy tabs every day, after a week or so she would leap up onto the tailgate of the truck. Run out and not give for a few weeks, dog stands by tailgate and eyeballs you for a leg up. The animals don't lie, they are either lame or sound, although I swear the horse fake lameness to avoid work!
ya, i took it for years and thought it didn't help. recently started taking it again, and my knees are feeling amazing....first time in a while knee isn't popping all over the place.
but guess what else I did recently: stopped running
Years ago , I use to have kneecap pain from running & skiing. I starting taking G&C daily about 6 years ago. Been pain free ever since. Will it work for everyone, no. But it sure has for me.
Works wonders for my Dad. I think it depends on the type of damage/pain you have for it to work, as it appears to work best on people whose "cushioning" is gone. My dad raced motocross in the 60's, and has probably zero cartilage in the knees as a result (can't even run). I think he'd have trouble walking without it.
I am a horse vet and recommend it to my patients and give it to my arthritic dogs and see the same results as Crampedon. The biggest thing about Glucosamine and Chondroitin is where they are from. Make sure that it is from an ocean source (Green Lipped Mussels, Shark or other ocean fish). Both glucosamine/chondroitin can be found in bovine cartilage and that source is MUCH less effective. ALSO, you get what you pay for. There is NO regulation in the supplement industry, so there is no one policing the supplement companies to make sure that they have the right amount of the substance in their product. There are supplements I recommend for my horse patients and others that aren't worth the shitty plastic bucket that they come in. Also, the MSM has been shown to have more anti-inflammatory effect, at least in horses (a great model for human osteoarthritis, ask the NFL). Same rules apply for MSM supplements, though. Eat more fish (make sure you have a good ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids) and you will reap the same benefits of glucosamine/chondroitin supplementation.
The only thing that I have ever personally taken that makes a big difference (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, fish oils, etc) is from this company, www.platinumperformance.com . I don't own stock or anything, but it is the only thing that makes my joints feel better after about a week. Just my .02cents.
anyone have any experience with this stuff?
http://www.agel.com/products/thrive/FLX
gel product, supposed to have better absorpsion rate that pill forms.
it's a MLM product, so i automatically have my doubts.
I had awful knee pain until I started on glucosamine and chondroitin. Ten weeks after I started taking it my knees were a lot better. That was eight years ago and my knees are still way better than before I started taking the pills. I am NOT a pill taker, never was, but I was desperate and the stuff was recommended to me by a climber that I respect a lot.
Twice I stopped taking them and got worse fast--then started again and got better. I have two friends whose dogs do a lot better with the pills too.
I used to think glucosamone helped, but my new supplement is Alpha Flex with Omega 5e. Almost instantaneous difference.
I say stick with the shark cartilage. It is all natural and will help keep your skiing aggressive.:biggrin:
i've just been diagnosed with a precursor to osteoarthritis in my right hand, with a bone spur calcification under my middle finger big knuckle on my palm side. the doc told me that after breaking my wrist a few years back that there was a good change of developing arthritis and here it is.
i posted the below earlier with no reply but also would like to know...is there any benefit to taking this stuff to ward off arthritis?
is there any benefit to taking this stuff if you're not actually in pain? is it something that would prevent future pain? i'm getting a bit creaky in the joints but never experience pain. wondering if there is any benefit to start now.
I like the stuff.
I usually have a bottle of it in the cupboard. I don't notice any distinct affects when I take the pills; but if I run out, I'll start to feel sharp pains in my knees within a week or so.
In the ongoing effort to keep my polo ponies sound and standing on 4 legs I bought a Gallon ($330!!) of Lubrisyn. An ounce a day on the feed for a week then half and ouce a day...ongoing.
It works. It's a HA hyluronic acid suppliment and makes this one mare go way easier after 2 weeks on it. I take the horse stuff but they make a chery flavor for people. On their facebook page they were giving out bottles to try.
Sure can't hurt, I think it's lubrisyn.com
Coco
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1277625315
i did a little research and do you know that Omega 5e(tm) is purely a marketing ploy to make the stuff sound more "sciencey".Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
i'd like to try something but i don't want to overpay for a bunch of marketing and mumbo jumbo placebo effect terminology.
for the collective: what's the absolute cheapest product available the has all the good stuff?
Any further thoughts on this? I've been taking it for while now, ran out two days ago and now my hands hurt. Quite possibly unrelated but I dunno. Seems related. Sort of wishing I didn't punch so many hard things over the years too.
There are still no good studies out there, nor will there likely be, because nobody is going to fund it since the generic is dirt cheap, and often crap.
The few studies seem to show it helps about 50-60% of people. Nobody shows huge improvement, but enough to say it is helping. I put a lot of dogs on it, and talk a lot of owners who also use/try it, and I would agree with that 50-60% number. Again not great changes, but enough to justify using it. The results are never nearly as good as with NSAIDs, but that another issue.
I used it with no effect.
Also remember it is a significant source of cholesterol, so you might want to take your statins with it;)
Had no idea about the cholesterol connection, that's worth hearing thanks. I seem to be in the group that it helps, on my third day without it I am sore as a motherfucker, especially my hands and my fucked-up ankles. I guess I'll stay off it for a few more days and see how it goes, I can always start it back up.
I didn't know about the possible cholesterol effects either. Interesting... I've been taking a glucosamine/MSM tablet for years now, and last cholesterol/general blood tests were all within normal range.
I used to have shoulder and knee aches, and the glucosamine seems to help. Mrs. C. says that, anecdotally (from doctors she works with), some patients respond to glucosamine and some do not. There appear to be no adverse side effects (except cholesterol, I guess), and she says that out of those that report positive effects, it's on the larger joints (knee, hip) more than smaller (hands, feet).
http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/about^^^ this. My dog doesn't understand placebo effect. I have seen HUGE improvements in his mobility about a month into dosing his food. I did my research, and settled on "K9 Liquid Health" which I get delivered for amazingly less money than anything else I have found so far. If you got something better or input I'd love to have it however. I compared ingredients and this seemed to be the best I could findQuote:
Originally Posted by leroy jenkins
Edit: I know this thread isn't about animals, but Liquid Health makes products marketed for human consumption ( however the K9 version I order can be as well.) a brief comparison to a previously posted product leads this dentist to thinks I'd gonna stick with what I have.
I called them, $30 gets me 32 oz delivered, info here
http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/about
If you do wanna try it...make sure you go with the crystalline glucosamine SULFATE. This is the derivative that has shown the best results in clinical studies. Note that NO clinical tests have shown absolute conclusivity in their results....but it DOES seem to help some people with beginning osteoarthritis.
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Well I gotta say, it's been like 5 days now and I don't feel any more miserable than I usually do. My hands and ankles hurt for a couple days but maybe that was just a coincidence or I psyched myself into it. Gonna stay off it for a while and see what happens.
Hey, Ice. I did a 10 day liver cleanse with an almost all raw foods diet (no wheat, some cooked meat) over the last couple weeks and I feel like a new mang. Just did the longest hike I've done since blowing out my knee. If you want it, just say the word and I'll scan and email it to you.
I have a Brittany with shitty swiss cheese hips, I give it to him twice a day and there is a noticeable difference in his mobility and energy levels as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks
I have tried just about everything available with horses..
The only thing I feel like made a visible difference was MSM and legend (Hyaluronate Sodium)/adequan (polysulfated glycosaminoglycan) injections.
Actually adequan works so well that I know of people who inject themselves with it... not that I am recommending that..
This is as I understand it too. I had a chem professor that was interested in it so he followed the research for a while and decided it was bull shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
It is made up of bits of shark cartilage, crustacean chitin and exoskeletons for other sea arthropods. This is the curious thing is that if it was actually going to help your joints it would have to get to your joints. However, we ingest it, putting it into our stomachs where it gets broken down and pieced into aminoacid building blocks. You might as well eat the bone in your T-bone.
From a british medical journal, "Compared with placebo, glucosamine, chondroitin, and their combination do not reduce joint pain or have an impact on narrowing of joint space. Health authorities and health insurers should not cover the costs of these preparations, and new prescriptions to patients who have not received treatment should be discouraged."... Wandel S, Jüni P, Tendal B, Nüesch E, Villiger PM, Welton NJ, Trelle S (2010). "Effects of glucosamine, chondroitin, or placebo in patients with osteoarthritis of hip or knee: network meta-analysis". British Medical Journal 341 (sep16 2): c4675. doi:10.1136/bmj.c4675. PMC 2941572. PMID 20847017
American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons (AAOS):
We recommend glucosamine and/or chondroitin sulfate or hydrochloride not be prescribed for patients with symptomatic OA of the knee.
AAOS Level of Evidence: I
AAOS Grade of Recommendation: A
Rationale:
This recommendation is based on an Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ) report12 that provides evidence from one RCT and six systematic reviews (Table 8) on the use of glucosamine and/or chondroitin sulfate or hydrochloride among patients with symptomatic OA of the knee. We evaluated this evidence as Level I.
The AHRQ report states that “the best available evidence found that glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, or their combination did not have any clinical benefit in patients with primary OA of the knee.”
hmmm, the 50-60% range is the typical max efficacy rate of placebos.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
actually, the placebo effect has been observed in animals as far back as pavlov's experiments. now how or if this could work if you slipped it undetected into a dog's food, i don't know. it could also be explained by observer's bias, the fact that you know you did it and your observations are biased towards seeing it as being effective. or possibly the effects of more human contact; perhaps knowing your dog is sick you spend more time with him, petting him, talking to him, etc. this has been demostrated to have positive benefits in animals. maybe hutash knows more on this and can comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks
i had been taking glucosamine/chondoitin supplements since mid-2010, shortly after my posts above. i thought my hands felt less creaky although i could never say there was any drastic improvement. then again i didn't have any severe symptoms to begin with. i had foot surgery about 7 weeks ago and decided that since i was going to be immobile on the sofa for the recovery period, there was no need to be taking the supplements during this time, so i stopped. i've been starting to get more mobile in the last 2 weeks and can now say with certainty that i don't notice any difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
the fact is that the placebo effect is real and not fully understood. if it works for you, go for it as long as what you are taking has no harmful side effects. be prepared to be separated from your money for what is basically "all in your head".
I've been taking it a couple of months and my Cholesterol did jump. This might be my last bottle?
looks like str8line camp alumni here;I thought there was flexability improvement...but this stuff isn't supposed to work fast;any coments from knowedgeable people on this? Wonder if the studies accounted for fish/non-fish eaters. Like to see a poll related to this important factor. I am a non fish eater.
Wasn't there another thread on this in the way back time?
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ht=glucosamine
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougW
I've been on for years. First I had an ankle injury that would not go completely away and seemed to do trick. I once was in a warm climate for 6 months and problems came back slowly. Pills had yellowed from heat. Once I was back on fresh stuff got better again.
I have severe OA and DJD in the right knee and left hip. Last couple of months have been painful. But since my cholesterol went up a lot, I thought I'd quit the glucosamine, condroitin, msm suppliments I've been taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredhead
I quit last monday. By Friday I was more stiff and sore. Friday night I had a very intense workout. Saturday I could hardly walk. I'm back on.
I had an elbow injury for years from motocross. I finally took glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, fish oil - Seemed to help.
THEN-
I tried Oseteo BiFlex NutriJoint with my BCAA's and protein before lifting weights. Also, Natrol's; Glucosamine, MSM, CetylPure capsules.
PAIN GONE!
First time in years.
Can't say what did it. Only anecdotal. The Oseteo BiFlex NutriJoint was primarily for the gelatin which supports collagen production.