Intrawest rolls out WP plan

went to slick presentation on the village plan for WP. It's pretty ambitious with the goal of making Winter Park more like WP.

Anyway cool (I guess) stuff is new 6pack nest year to replace Summit, new 6pack in 06 to top of Parsenne bowl plus glades/trails on Swede ridge, new chair on backside Parsenne in 07 plus glading. This is all happening while they do Phase 1 of the village to be complete by 08-09.

Other interesting news is they bought the Vintage hotel (located right at the base of WP) to convert to employee housing.

Do you really live in Tabernash?

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Originally Posted by snowfun

It's pretty ambitious with the goal of making Winter Park more like WP.

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Please translate.

6 packs are cool? I am such an old nerd.

A sixer to the top of Parsenn?? That's crazy-talk. Doesn't seem like that little bowl could possibly hold that kind of traffic. The glades will be cooked in an hour and patrol will be peeling lots more folks off the trees.

What about MJ? Any changes announced that are different from previous news?

edit - I'm as confused as Roo about the Winter Park like WP thing.

I THINK he ment WB as in Whistler/Blackcomb

More antiseptic base accomdations for Winter Park, courtesy of the Intrawest Try to Be Like a European Village Even Though Our Development Is Bland and Kitsch Department.

I saw some pictures of the first "resort" that they are building in Europe - I think it's Switzerland? Imagine that fake Euro-village thing at the base of a real Euro mountain. bizarre

6 packs = bad news.

Long lines and quicker to be tracked up. Whoopee!

I heard somewhare that they are planning on upscaling MJ too. Is that true? Are they gonna build condos & stuff over the old dirt parking lots? :confused:

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Originally Posted by 72Twenty

I heard somewhare that they are planning on upscaling MJ too. Is that true? Are they gonna build condos & stuff over the old dirt parking lots? :confused:

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The construction I saw last year was behind the existing Jane base. Intrawest is also going to be expanding over at the WP base. I don't know where the forest boundaries are, I wonder if that will come into place on the Jane side.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

I saw some pictures of the first "resort" that they are building in Europe - I think it's Switzerland? Imagine that fake Euro-village thing at the base of a real Euro mountain. bizarre

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Arc 1950. It's already built.

We actually have a lot of purpose built fake wood and stone resorts in the Alps, especially France. Resorts like Belle Plagne, Valmorel, Valfrejus, Plagne 1950, Arc 1950, Mottaret and Oz Station are typical of the low rise modern resort developments that took over from the hideous high rise eyesores of 1960/70s development (think Tignes, Val Thorens, Les Menuires, Aime La Plagne, Les Arcs etc).

For a fascinating insight into the difficulties in sprouting a new resort, have a look at this article on L'Alpe du Grand Serre.

Well actually the village plan is pretty cool, their plan is to not do the high-rise condo thing with retail in the bases. They are going to restore the Fraser river and make a pedestrian mall. They are going to build lower 2 to 3 story buildings for retail and they say 80% of th businesses will be momandpop. The "motif" is railroad and colorado mountains, not the swiss village aka Vail.

The whole idea they are selling is a place that is uniquely colorado and where locals and guests mingle. The idea of having employee housing at the base is to try to inject local flavor (and probably jump start the night life).

No plans to change MJ (other than new lifts). They don't own the land at the base so unless they cut a deal with the FS I don't see much happening. They are focusing on WP. I kinda agree new lifts to the top will track things out faster on weekends especially but waiting to ride the old lift to the top was not a great thing either.

Also down the road plans are to expand further into Vasquez area, mostly lifts and trails on the ridge west of Little Vasquez creek (aka Mountain goat trail). This is one of my hunting areas but oh well.

I do live in Tabernash, lucky me! Looking for snow tonight.

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Originally Posted by snow2knight

Well actually the village plan is pretty cool, their plan is to not do the high-rise condo thing with retail in the bases. They are going to restore the Fraser river and make a pedestrian mall. They are going to build lower 2 to 3 story buildings for retail and they say 80% of th businesses will be momandpop.

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And John Kerry is gonna fix the healthcare system without raising taxes, and GW didn't know about the intelligence reports that said Saddam didn't possess any WMD's, and Santa claus is bringing me one of those lifetime heli passes cause I sent him a letter asking for it, and ....... :rolleyes:

All sources just about as plausible as Intrawest's mktg department.

Thanks for the info snow2knight. I was wondering if that was you in the first post.
Hopefully we can make a few runs together again this season. Mine won't start until January, but most or all of it will be spent at WP/MJ and Copper.

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Originally Posted by teledave

And John Kerry is gonna fix the healthcare system without raising taxes, and GW didn't know about the intelligence reports that said Saddam didn't possess any WMD's, and Santa claus is bringing me one of those lifetime heli passes cause I sent him a letter asking for it, and ....... :rolleyes:

All sources just about as plausible as Intrawest's mktg department.

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I have little faith in Intrawest's ability to make WP/MJ a long-term success without "Intrawesting" it myself, but the reality is that Winter Park (and subsequently the little towns that support it) wouldn't have survived with the City of Denver running it. There wasn't enough cash being injected to keep it afloat. Intrawest made the best offer and Denver took it. The Mayor REALLY didn't want to let it go, but the citizens of Denver weren't going to vote to inject 10's of millions of dollars into it.
With WP and Fraser locals pushing in one direction and Intrawest pushing in the other, hopefully they meet somewhere in the middle and the resort and neighboring towns thrive while maintaining most of the current flavor.
Is it the best possible outcome?... obviously not, but it's the best they've got.

the whole thing sucks if you ask me. I don't know why the city had to enter into a contract with interwest in the first place. Now, instead of a lowkey place for denver area families to come up and ski on the weekends, we have some sort of vail / copper mountain / whistler blackcomb mega development catering to tourons and tansplants from the midwest with money.

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Originally Posted by juicy

I don't know why the city had to enter into a contract with interwest in the first place.

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umm... for all those reasons I just said.

yeah Jibj, the old name was corny the new one is just dumb but I'm not that creative. Hope we can do some skiing this winter, I'm also hoping to find some folks to explore powder stashes to ski with my sleds.... Rollins Pass.

Anyway I am sure folks in the Fraser Valley and elsewhere will bitch about Intraworst but you can't please everyone. Those I know doing this at the local level for WP are sincere and really do want the best for the hill, but now that the City of Denver is out of it they have to make money also. Progress>>>

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Originally Posted by snowfun

Hope we can do some skiing this winter, I'm also hoping to find some folks to explore powder stashes to ski with my sleds.... Rollins Pass.

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Heh... I know a certain stoned monkey who's VERY interested in hurling his carcass over that gap multiple times. :)

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Originally Posted by snow2knight

Well actually the village plan is pretty cool, their plan is to not do the high-rise condo thing with retail in the bases. They are going to restore the Fraser river and make a pedestrian mall. They are going to build lower 2 to 3 story buildings for retail and they say 80% of th businesses will be momandpop. The "motif" is railroad and colorado mountains, not the swiss village aka Vail.

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You might want to read "Downhill Slide" to get an understanding of what sort of businesses are really going in at Intrawest developments. They may look like mom and pop sorts of places, and they may even be owned by the locals, but believe me, there will be absolutely no local control over the village businesses.

Intrawest has a very detailed plan for their villages. Not just: "a restaurant next door to a sports store", but more like: "a fast-casual mexican restaurant next to a snowboard store catering to the young adult crowd." There's really no place for the truly funky mom and pop type places that you see in real towns. Think about it, have you ever seen anything truly unique in an Intrawest Village? There aren't any coffee shop/mountaineering combos, or pet supply stores, or anything else that you would find in a truly organic village. Everything has been carefully planned to extract the maximum amount of money from the guests. Ever notice how there's always a late night snack place located right next to the busy clubs? The contracts that tenants sign include all sorts of little details so that, for example, if the owner of the chocolate shop decides that he also wants to start selling waffles, Intrawest can evict him, since his waffle business isn't part of their village plan. If you look closely, an Intrawest Village has a lot in common with the Main Street USA section of Disneyland. The intrawest version feels a little bit less manufactured because the stores are owned by individuals instead of one company, but everything is still tightly controlled

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Originally Posted by juicy

the whole thing sucks if you ask me. I don't know why the city had to enter into a contract with interwest in the first place. Now, instead of a lowkey place for denver area families to come up and ski on the weekends, we have some sort of vail / copper mountain / whistler blackcomb mega development catering to tourons and tansplants from the midwest with money.

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Yup. So does that mean Eldora is the only "low-key" area near D-town? I've never been there. I've heard it is smaller but it looks to be reasonably priced, etc. I was going to check it out this winter. Anyone have yea's or nay's about Eldora? Maybe I'll start another thread about it in the future, since it is off this subject.

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Originally Posted by 72Twenty

Yup. So does that mean Eldora is the only "low-key" area near D-town? I've never been there. I've heard it is smaller but it looks to be reasonably priced, etc. I was going to check it out this winter. Anyone have yea's or nay's about Eldora? Maybe I'll start another thread about it in the future, since it is off this subject.

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I skied there for a day a few years back during a low-snow year. It's definitely low-key, and it has some fun groomers. The tree skiing might be OK, but there wasn't really enough snow to explore.

Don't forget A-Basin and Loveland. Both are low-key and near Denver.

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Originally Posted by snow2knight

yes I do live in tabernash.

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Spent quite a bit of time with WP/MJ passes through college at the ol' Winter Park Pub- that place still there? WP/MJ always had this really cool, small town vibe to it. development is...okay to an extent...but please help keep them out of the Jane side and especially from cutting any trails in/around the mushrooms ;) and what's up with the split grooming plan of Outhouse? Have they increased any other grooming of the Jane? I can totally see Intrawest mopping out Railbender (?) on a regular basis..fockers.

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Originally Posted by jibij

A sixer to the top of Parsenn?? That's crazy-talk. Doesn't seem like that little bowl could possibly hold that kind of traffic.

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I agree. Why do this anyway? The vertical is so short.

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Originally Posted by bad_roo

Arc 1950. It's already built....low rise modern resort developments that took over from the hideous high rise eyesores of 1960/70s development (think Tignes, Val Thorens, Les Menuires, Aime La Plagne, Les Arcs etc)...

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Or the Architectural Abortion that is Avoriaz:
http://davidmoreira.free.fr/images/Neige/Avoriaz.jpg

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Originally Posted by Squirrel99

Spent quite a bit of time with WP/MJ passes through college at the ol' Winter Park Pub- that place still there? WP/MJ always had this really cool, small town vibe to it. development is...okay to an extent...but please help keep them out of the Jane side and especially from cutting any trails in/around the mushrooms ;) and what's up with the split grooming plan of Outhouse? Have they increased any other grooming of the Jane? I can totally see Intrawest mopping out Railbender (?) on a regular basis..fockers.

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Yeah, the Pub is still there. http://winterparkpub.com/ Slightly less outa hand, but still there. It was started and owned by three of my buddies. If you lived there at anypoint between '95 and '01 you'd prolly recognize me, I worked there. Intramountain will ruin the Jane, its already underway. The Patch is still in effect but gets skied way more. Bottom line: Winter Park's character came from the fact that is way different that Summit. The more Intrawest makes it like Summit, the less unique it will be.

edit: Intrasworst has been very manipulative in dealing with the admittedly overpowered town government. Did they talk in the master plan about the Gondie that was too be built into town (by Denos)? This was the carrot IW used to get there foot in the door.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Yeah, the Pub is still there. http://winterparkpub.com/ Slightly less outa hand, but still there. It was started and owned by three of my buddies. If you lived there at anypoint between '95 and '01 you'd prolly recognize me, I worked there. Intramountain will ruin the Jane, its already underway. The Patch is still in effect but gets skied way more. Bottom line: Winter Park's character came from the fact that is way different that Summit. The more Intrawest makes it like Summit, the less unique it will be.

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Funny- small world, eh? Yep, would have been there on/off from '93 - '96. At least in '96 there was disco night- damn, it was crowded! Usually ended up on random floor space in town. lived in boulder at the time, skied with the CU freestyle guys so I would have been one of those bumpers that spent all day on Sterling/G. Spike/Phantom/Needles/Derailer/Frenchman. Been a good five years now since I've been to WP- I'm afraid the next time I get back there it's gonna be really different... :(

Bump Fag!!!!

I know all them dudes. Disco Night needs to make a comeback. Something about bad music and bad clothes got the pussy out!

I hope all goes well, and not too much changes for this year, cause WP/MJ is where I'm going to be from Jan on this season.

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Thanks for the info snow2knight. I was wondering if that was you in the first post.
Hopefully we can make a few runs together again this season. Mine won't start until January, but most or all of it will be spent at WP/MJ and Copper.

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yeah Jibj, the old name was corny the new one is just dumb but I'm not that creative. Hope we can do some skiing this winter, I'm also hoping to find some folks to explore powder stashes to ski with my sleds.... Rollins Pass.

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Hopefully we will all be able to hook up and ski together some this year.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Bump Fag!!!!

I know all them dudes. Disco Night needs to make a comeback. Something about bad music and bad clothes got the pussy out!

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or what little pussy was in winter park! but they flocked to the pub like no other bar ;)

as for the bumping stuff, that ended a long time ago! very little of that desired riding at the 'bird and same for my new hills in WA- until mother nature ran dry in april last year and international @ alpental became a big bad ass version of needles eye, but 3 times longer. what a wake up call- defintely hadn't bashed between a bunch of volkswagens in a long time, let alone on a pair of B3's.

Oh, and Loeffler is one of the guys I've met up with in Las Lenas the past few years. I also lived with Jacobson when I was in vail '97-'99

Foggy, did you work for MP at The Pub?

Railbender's being split groomed pretty regularly-- the lower section, anyway. I've noticed that before they groom it that first time, RB has the best bumps on the mountain (except for maybe Gandy Dancer, but Gandy's a hell of a lot flatter).

Thankfully, Intrawest seemed to listen to the complaints about grooming the bumps and is keeping it to only Outhouse and Railbender. Yeah, that REALLY sucks, but at least they decided that grooming Frenchman was a really piss piss poor move. Outhouse never seemed to get good bumps on it anyway, and gapers seem to have just as much trouble on the split groom since they only scrape it once every week or two and it forms nasty huge icy irregular bumps.

Sucks to see that the Winter Park that converted me from a vacation skier to ski bum is now being handled by Intrawest... I hate the idea of a lift at Parsenn and Backside Parsenn. The lift lines on Timberline are horrible on weekends and holidays but pretty much nonexistent the other 75% of the time. What's up with all the gapers wanting to brag about "skiing the back bowls, brah?"

I hear they're putting Mushroom Patch, Topher's, and Stone Grove on the trail map....