Am I Getting Ripped Off?

Let me preface this post by saying that I am by no means ripping on the photographer I mention, I'm simply asking for the opinions of my fellow Maggots and Minions.

Ok, now that that's out of the way, I have some background info.

About a month ago Phunk was kind enough to give me Dave Heath's email address. I had a question for him about a photo that ran in the September issue of Powder Mag, the one on the Intro Page of the ski cabin in British Columbia. Well, after countless emails and being nice enough to go the trouble of getting the negative of the shot back from Powder, Dave finally quoted me some prices on larger prints of the photo, which I have fallen in love with. Now, I understand that high-grade prints of photos like these are expensive, and would have had no problem with paying what I considered to be a reasonable price for it.

Therein lies the problem: The prices he quoted me ranged from 175 to 200 USD for either a 12x18 or a 16x24 print. For a print that size I expected the price to be roughly 100 USD, which I would have been more than willing to pay, but $200 seems a bit unreasonable. Am I being overly cheap, or am I getting taken for a ride with the cost of that photo?

The other thing is the internal dilemma I'm facing, he went to the trouble of getting the photo back from Powder and took the time and effort to look into high-grade prints of it and what they cost, so now I feel almost obligated to buy it. I'm torn because on one hand, I feel guilty for not buying it from him, and at the same time, I really don't have $200 laying around to spend on a photo, and I ruled out asking my 'rents to pay for it. So maggots, what do you think about the cost of the print, and what should I do?

Thanks guys.

It's art man. The only way he can rip you off is if he doesn't send it. Everyone charges different amounts for their work. That seems like a mighty reasonable price to me. If it's worth that amount of money to you then it's worth it.

Your being cheap. That is a helluva deal. Your not paying for some random porn, you're purchasing from a professional.

Give em the money and enjoy your new pics.

I understand that it's art and I really love the shot, but the money just isn't there, and going to school 6 days a week doesn't give me any free time to possibly get a job.And being that I'm 15, it's not like I can throw it on the credit card. Anyone else care to chime in?

I don't think you can get "ripped off" when you're buying someones photography. He owns the image and puts his perceived value on it. It's not like you're buying wedding prints or photography services where you could get competitive bids. The money he's asking isn't just for lab fees and photo paper... it's for the unique nature of that single photograph.

So the question you need to answer is: Is that photograph worth $175 to $200 to you?

What is the opportunity cost of that money. What else is it going to do for you and does that out weigh how much you like and want that photo.

If you end up pulling the trigger on it, I guarantee 10 years from now you'll still dig that photo... but you won't remember what else you were planning on doing with the 200 bucks.

Also, don't forget to factor the cost of quality framing into your equation.

Any artist that sells their work has the right to price it as they see fit, especially when selling it directly.

If they don't sell via galleries/auction houses, etc., there is no firm indicator of market value.

That said, you might just try telling him what you just told us. Given the quantity of Sinners DVDs (including my copy) that sold as a result of your irritating (but effective) spam, he might be flexible on his price.

I will agree with those dudes above cuz they are bothe ohh so sexy and .,
um I mean, I am a Jong photo wise but it seems for prints that size he had to go to a lot of work he normally wouldn't.
That & the quality of image = the price you are paying.

is it matted as well? if so you are getting a hell of a deal.

have you comparison shopped other pros for images that size?

I get the feeling you are waiting for one of the pro photogs to tell you their price

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Originally posted by optics
Any artist that sells their work has the right to price it as they see fit, especially when selling it directly.

If they don't sell via galleries/auction houses, etc., there is no firm indicator of market value.

That said, you might just try telling him what you just told us. Given the quantity of Sinners DVDs (including my copy) that sold as a result of your irritating (but effective) spam, he might be flexible on his price.

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Sinners was his brother Bill, not Dave, but nevertheless, it is a thought. I knew I could always count on your guys for some insight. Keep it comin'

Are those prints framed or not? If they are framed, they're a steal from any photographer, no matter how well known they are.

Here's something as a reference: Raddam's website

I think his prices are very, very reasonable. The prices listed are less, but Raddam is not nearly as well known as Mr. Heath.

If you think it's only worth $100, then you're ripping yourself off by paying $200 for it.

The photo is off the scale!

However, the satellite dish on the roof kind of detracts from the tranquility and remoteness of the photo.

If you like the photo, buy it! We don't want to hear from you in 15 years saying "Does anyone remember the powdermag in Setember 04 with that shot of a BC cabin by Dave Heath - I really want to buy it?"

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Originally posted by glademaster
Sinners was his brother Bill, not Dave, but nevertheless, it is a thought. I knew I could always count on your guys for some insight. Keep it comin'

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Errr..Im samrt.

see if he will sign and number it
that might ad more value, 200 is pricey for 15 year old

No.... I think that it a fair price. Two years ago I contacted a photographer who regularly sells to Powder and purchased several prints from him for my office. I paid $175 for the 12 x 24 and $250 for the 16 x 32 prints. We did discuss price before he went throught the trouble of getting the negatives back. After my conversation with him in regards to the amount of work involved in him doing this for me I felt his price was more than fair.

Keep in mind you are dealing with a professional photographer who takes hundreds of photos in order to get a few that he may be able to sell.

1) Price is fine. (You're buying his work, not a reprint from a one-hour photo lab.)

2) If you can't afford the prints, don't order them. (Duh!)

3) Lesson learned? Next time, talk price up front and save a photographer the hassle. (Can't believe he didn't quote you a price right away.) Anyways, if you bailing on a sale is the most annoying thing to happen to this photog today, he is a lucky man.

Now stop doing all this grown up stuff and go play in the park or something. ;)

Sheesh, kids today. :p

Can't afford something you committed to? Time to swallow some pride and tell Mom & Dad about your situation. Work out a plan to pay them back.

Seems to me that that is a better route to go than going back on your word to the artist.

I never promised to buy it, I was inquiring about the cost of it. Nevertheless, I talked to my parents and they essentially said no dice to any financial assitance, they didn't think the photo was "good enough to cost that much." Sometimes they piss me off. I know it isn't something they need to pay for, but they can't see the artistry of the shot. Maybe I can start a fundraiser.

Anyone wanna buy an Arcteryx softshell?:D

Dave Heath is the ultimate sleezebag. I have seen the guy pull some unbelievable stunts and ruin things for large groups of people. He is such a turd that Whitewater actually banned him from the hill for a year or two at one point. You're not welcome here was how I believe Mike Adams put it. I would grind the bastard if I even supported him at all. There are lots of great photogs out there who deserve your support more than Dave.

Now his brother on the other hand is a totally different story. Nicest guy you'll ever meet. Hard to believe they come from the same parents.

I've heard this before from other people JR. Maybe I should shop around for a similar shot? I really like the photo, but I've never been a fan of supporting a prick when there are plenty of equally good photogs who are hella nice guys too. Damn, now I'm even more confused.

I'm sure MBS has a killer shot that he would be willing to sell....maybe .

Whatever happened to that super cool pic of the hut/tent glowing at night way out in the BC. I remember it floating around either here or at pmag... but don't know if it was amateur or pro or what. Heath's pic in powder made me think of that pic.

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Originally posted by slim
Whatever happened to that super cool pic of the hut/tent glowing at night way out in the BC. I remember it floating around either here or at pmag... but don't know if it was amateur or pro or what. Heath's pic in powder made me think of that pic.

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I got that pic on my comp if you want it.

Can;t remember who took it. He also took another badass night shot like it.l

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Originally posted by glademaster
Damn, now I'm even more confused.

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I don't mean to confuse you dude, I just think that there are a lot of excellent photographers out there who treat people right. Several of them are members of our community.

Wouldn't you rather buy your photo from a guy who struggles with whether he should sell a photo to a mag that takes advertising dollars from tobacco companies than of a guy who would sell his mother for a few bucks and not give it a second thought. (I think it is great he thinks about it, shows some soul. He should still take the money though.)

Maybe I'll contact some other photogs. I'm sure there is some great stuff out there from guys who aren't pricks. Maybe I can even find a shot like that one without the satelite dish. Thanks for the input guys, it really means a lot to me.:)

The price is reasonable. As an example Galen Rowell's photos go for $475 for a 16x20 archival print. Obviously Galen is (was) a more well-known photographer, but the bottom line is he isn't shafting you.

You shouldn't feel obligated to purchase from him. Just explain you really like the photo, but can't afford it. I'm sure he'll understand and if he doesn't he really is a prick.

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Originally posted by Mountainman
I got that pic on my comp if you want it.

Can;t remember who took it. He also took another badass night shot like it.l

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I wanna say it was Phil or Gorillo? maybe the same person. I know it was posted on BigLines too. THat puppy was worth printing, save yourself some cash too....of course get their permission first i guess.

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Originally posted by The AD
You shouldn't feel obligated to purchase from him. Just explain you really like the photo, but can't afford it. I'm sure he'll understand and if he doesn't he really is a prick.

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Agreed 100%. He could have quoted you a price before he went through the effort of getting the slide back from Powder. Don't feel obligated because he did it backwards.

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Originally posted by FreakofSnow
I wanna say it was Phil or Gorillo? maybe the same person. I know it was posted on BigLines too. THat puppy was worth printing, save yourself some cash too....of course get their permission first i guess.

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I think it was powslut.

that's cheap, especially if you can get a 16x20. a really nice/custom frame, glazing and matte that fits a pic that size costs as much. explain your situation and ask him if you can spread the payment over two months. prolly not but worth a shot if it means that much to you.

Thats the thing, it doesn't include matte or a frame, it's simply a copy of the print. It seems like for the money I could prolly find something nicer in terms of quality and compostion. I'm not totally discounting the shot though.

that estimate is for a high-end frame job, which you should get eventually if you want to store the photo in an archival setting. mattes can be DIY and you can stick the photo in a cheapy pre-fab frame in the meantime.

Quote:

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Originally posted by slim
Whatever happened to that super cool pic of the hut/tent glowing at night way out in the BC. I remember it floating around either here or at pmag... but don't know if it was amateur or pro or what. Heath's pic in powder made me think of that pic.

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Yes, that was Powslut's photo.

This pic?

http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic16853.jpg

Just because you can't afford something doesn't make it bad value. Define your budget then search for the best picture w/in those parameters. Also, mounting and framing are usually at least as expensive as the art itself.

This one was pretty sweet from powslut too

another fav, don't know who took this one though....somewhere in chile is all i remember

^^^THAT is a sweet pic^^^

Yea it seems expensive but think of the insane amount of work he put in and the table scraps he usually gets for his work. If you like the shot, buy it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by slim

If you end up pulling the trigger on it, I guarantee 10 years from now you'll still dig that photo... but you won't remember what else you were planning on doing with the 200 bucks.

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I agree 100%. To be stoked enough about art to want to spend a huge chunk of your savings on it is just awesome, especially at your age. Art is definitely something worth spending your money on, as its one of the few things that will last a lifetime. You'll be showing that pic to your kids one day, guaranteed.

What happened with this?