STOP KILLING FISH!!!!

that's what i need to do. other than a few bigger catches, it seems like all i am teaching my daughters to do is kill fish. they're (the fish, not the kids) mostly too small to eat, but are almost always confined too a short life after releasing.
fly fishing isn't an option as i can't afford new gear for me and them. so here are some questions
1. we're almost exclusively bait fishing with worms and occasionally power bait. i'll often throw a lure while they fish, but with no success. will barbless hooks help at all or does it matter once it's swallowed as is usually the case?

2. are there good options other than bait for spinning reel shore fishing in the sierra?

3. is there a certain hook size that will keep the little ones (again, the fish, not the kids) from being able to swallow it?

and of course any other advice?

Teach them to be quicker on setting the hook.

^^^^^^^^^^
that's the main one, but...

go barbless for sure. make sure you only have one point per line (clip or dont use treble hooks). try to extract the hook if you can, if its way swallowed, clip the line as close to the hook as possible and let the fish go.

You can fly fish with a spinning rig though. just put a good sized bobber a couple feet up the line, tie a fly on the end. the kids can cast the bobber and the fly will follow.

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Originally Posted by bio-smear

Teach them to be quicker on setting the hook.

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i'll definitely give that a go as i've been letting them relax and walk away from their poles. will that work for worms as well as power bait. it seems like a lot of the tugs on the bobber are just the worms getting bit and not the hook.

the bobber/fly thing sounds like the way to go though, and i think they will love it.
any shopping recommendations? we tend to hit caples, blue lakes, echo lakes around sunset.
i also live on the upper truckee just s of the hwy 50 bridge and would love for them to be able to fish out the back door. i don't see much going on there at any time of the day though. i'm guessing it's not stocked since at least part of it is a Heritage and Wild Trout designation.

The bubble and fly trick should help solve your problem

I like that bobber and fly trick- think I'll try that too.

I would say stop letting them walk away from the rod. They won't get away with that later on, so don't teach it to them now. If they aren't fishing, then they aren't fishing. Do that around here, and your gear will go waterskiing behind a big fish.

Listen to the advice above! Something you also might want to consider teaching your kids is to play the fish, especially as the water warms in the summer, as little as possible. Get it stuck in their heads that fishing is mostly about the part up to or including the hook set....after that the goal should be to land the fish as quickly as possible without being too rough on the fish. Gentle handling will help as will taking the fish off the hook while still in the water.

I don't know how old your kids are but you could possibly turn this into a game of sorts. Hype up that it's important for the fish they catch to be released safely and turn it into a friendly contest.

also as far as releasing and extracting hooks, keep the fish in the water if possible while you are extracting the hook. Trout won't last more than 45-60 seconds out of the water before they are done for. And don't forget to wet your hands before handling trout. They are very sensitive to dry hands and if you disrupt their slime coat they can get an infection and die later on.

Circle Hook. They should help reduce the number of swallows.

http://img.tacklewarehouse.com/ProductImages/GOHOP.JPG

Maybe try zero-offset circle hooks. I haven't used them in freshwater, but when you're using live or dead baits for big saltwater fish they reduce gut hooking enormously.

for flies i'd go with decent sized (nothing smaller than 14) foam body stimulators. chernobyl ant, madame x, hoppers, They'll float high, mimic a wide range of fish food, and will be easy to see. but that's basically choosing the flies for the fisherman, not the fish. Try one or two and see if they work. i dont know for sure, but i assume crappies will eat on the surface.

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Originally Posted by fez

You can fly fish with a spinning rig though. just put a good sized bobber a couple feet up the line, tie a fly on the end. the kids can cast the bobber and the fly will follow.

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This is the set up I have for my son. He is 4yo and knows nothing about setting a hook. Catches lots of small sun fish, and maybe only 1 in 60 swallows a hook.

Try using larger hooks as well, use the largest you can that will still catch fish. Ask for a 'torpedo bobber' for your bobber/fly rig, its shaped for this purpose and the line runs right through the center of it.

As far as spinning gear, for trout in the mountain lakes I like to throw #00 and #0 mepps (black/orange, classic), the small panther martins (black/yellow, 'bee') and the smallest and second smallest kastmaster spoons in silver and gold.

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Originally Posted by The Suit

Maybe try zero-offset circle hooks. I haven't used them in freshwater, but when you're using live or dead baits for big saltwater fish they reduce gut hooking enormously.

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You'll miss a couple more fish but yes, they work in freshwater too.

Also crush the barbs on your hooks, it'll teach you (and the kids) to always keep pressure on the fish when reeling.

I'm with the barbless fly and bubble crew. The kids will love seeing the fish hit the fly, as do I.

I fly fish and still wonder somtimes if the fish is gonna be OK. I caught a real nice brooke today and its lip was bleading a little. I have read alot on proper handling, but I am not convinced that anyone reaily knows what happens.

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Originally Posted by TheRealPoop

I fly fish and still wonder somtimes if the fish is gonna be OK. I caught a real nice brooke today and its lip was bleading a little. I have read alot on proper handling, but I am not convinced that anyone reaily knows what happens.

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I learned this trick from fly fishing celebrity, Rachel Andras (see Mikey Wier's Soulfish and Jamie Howard's Location X). To stop bleeding on a fish's lip, add direct pressure. I've tried it over the weekend. It works.

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Originally Posted by Denny1969

To stop bleeding on a fish's lip, add direct pressure. I've tried it over the weekend. It works.

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Or cut the gills out and wait a few seconds.

about 20 minutes ago on the Deschutes in Tumalo, Oregon while walking my dog.....
I just grabbed a 10" trout with my bare hands as it was resting in the shallows. In celebration I killed it and am cooking it in the toaster oven and feeding it to my cats. I am a catch and release guy but this was a straight kill scenario.
Bare Hands TR 7/21/09

I worked with a woman who had convinced herself that every fish she caught was able to swim away and live a long, healthy life. Super warm water, played too long, hooked too deep, spawned out . . . it didn't matter. She was/is crazy. Even if you are the most careful angler and do everything right, you won't ever eliminate fish mortality unless you stop catching fish. Like my former coworker, you're fooling yourself to think otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Vinman

And don't forget to wet your hands before handling trout.

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Tons of people overlook this.

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Originally Posted by yonskion

about 20 minutes ago on the Deschutes in Tumalo, Oregon while walking my dog.....
I just grabbed a 10" trout with my bare hands as it was resting in the shallows. In celebration I killed it and am cooking it in the toaster oven and feeding it to my cats. I am a catch and release guy but this was a straight kill scenario.
Bare Hands TR 7/21/09

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in that scenario, you must bite into the fish right then and there. it's the only way.

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Originally Posted by fez

You can fly fish with a spinning rig though. just put a good sized bobber a couple feet up the line, tie a fly on the end. the kids can cast the bobber and the fly will follow.

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Ding Ding Ding we have a winner its what I did when I was 8

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Originally Posted by powdork

in that scenario, you must bite into the fish right then and there. it's the only way.

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right place & right time. I membered what I had read in the Curtis Creek Manifesto years ago and pulled it off, very lucky. Hard road to a meal muddling.

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Originally Posted by fez

You can fly fish with a spinning rig though. just put a good sized bobber a couple feet up the line, tie a fly on the end. the kids can cast the bobber and the fly will follow.

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Use this one in clear, casts forever, fully adjustable, less wake:
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...c67/Adjust.jpg

Not this one:
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...c67/bobber.jpg

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Use this one in clear, casts forever, fully adjustable, less wake:

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that's what i got, though it appears to be the completely nonadjustable one.

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Originally Posted by powdork

that's what i got, though it appears to be the completely nonadjustable one.

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Get a float with a hole and the peg where you can fill it partly with water
run the line through the hole attach swivel, clip on leader of choice.
That way when the fish strikes he doesn't feel the weight of the float and it goes directly to angler.

Bubble float

FLy fishing without a fly rod
By Martin Joergensen

Fly but no flyrod
A lot of Danes fish the fly in a special way. They use a spinning rod and a bubble float. This rig has the advantage of making you able to fish with a fly, but do so without having to learn to cast with a flyrod -- or even buy one. Many fly fishers also prefer the method if the wind makes casting a fly hard or even impossible.
The method is generally considered the most efficient method for fishing se trout. A bubble float fisher will generally outfish both fly and spin fishers.
Flyfishing... or?
I have before dived into the discussion wether this is flyfishing or not. I will leave that. It's fishing with a fly, and that's what matters, because the fly can be the only effective way to catch trout in salt water. I use the bubble float from time to time myself, and I tend to agree with its most avid proselytes: it is a very efficient way to fish. Definetely more efficient than fishing with a lure, and actually more efficient than flyfishing with a fly rod. But not as much fun...



Loose bubble
The buble float has to be of the type where the line runs through a tube in the center. This allows to float to slide up the line when the fish takes the fly. The fish won't feel the weight of the float, and the float won't keep the fish from running. The only problem with this rig, is in the landning phase, where the bubble above the leader will mean, that the fish will be landed with all the leader out of the top eye. This is only a really big poblem when your leaders get longer than 3 meters (9-10').
Many Danish fishers use leaders up to 5 meters when fishing bubble floats and a friend of mine uses a complicated construction with monofile line, a piece of intermediate fly line and a thin leader with split shot in front of the bubble. He catches a lot of fish by the way.
An advantage of the bubble method is that you can fish large and heavy flies on long and thin leaders. Flies as the Fair Fly and the Full Metal Jacket can be a pest to cast on a light fly rod. They work very well with a bubble.
The tactics
Casting the bubble with the long leader can be quite tricky. When casting you don't want to hook yourself with a stray fly and when the bubble lands you want the long leader to stretch in front of the bubble.
Both things can be accomplished with the following method: When you retrieve the bubble and lift it of the water in preparation for the next cast, but leave the fly in the water in front of you. Have approx. 0.5-1 meters (2-3') of line out of the top eye Take the rod slowly the the right (if you're a right hand caster) but increase the speed in order to load the rod. Cast the bubble with a firm bu smooth motion.
The fly will follow the bubble and the leader will lay parallel to the casting line. In order to stretch the leader you brake the casting line by gently pressing your finger against the edge of the spool just before the bubble lands.
The tradition says that you have to retrieve the bubble extremely slowly. Don't follow that tradition. Retrieve as with any other kind of fly fishing: varied and according to the circumstances. Some argue that the bubble will scare the fish. My experience is the opposite: the commotion of the bubble will be more likely to attract fish, that will then see the fly.


http://content.screencast.com/users/...07-24_2204.png

circle hook would help I believe

Check out Moffitt angling with the trailing circle hook......works great on steelies.....should be just what you're looking for......put it on the bubble setup and presto.