I have a pair of Rossignol axis bindings that I want to mount on some Solly Czars but the only boots I have are AT - Scarpa's with vibram soles. Can I ride this set up and is it safe? Wondering...
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I have a pair of Rossignol axis bindings that I want to mount on some Solly Czars but the only boots I have are AT - Scarpa's with vibram soles. Can I ride this set up and is it safe? Wondering...
grasshopper, much is seen when your search follows the righteous path.....
Absolutely not, you can use alpine boots in most at bindings but you should never put an at boot in alpine bindings. The rockered sole sits higher than alpine sole and pushes up on the toe piece of alpine binding which is pre-set for the standardized hehgt of all alpine boot soles.
The obligatory "you'll die" answerQuote:
Originally Posted by summer_teeth
A friend of mine who has no real clue about ski equipment does it. He has some Garmonts in some Marker Free 12.0 bindings. He says it works just fine, but i cant give you any personal input.
as long as the boot soles are DIN certifiied, you should have no problem with alpine bindings.
which ISO/DIN?Quote:
Originally Posted by VTsession
will they fit? yes/maybe
will they work? yes/maybe
is it safe? not really but if its your only option and you promis not to sue, go for it...
in a new feat of coolness i saw a kid on Armada fat somethings last week with Salomon 916s and Scarpa tele boots, that setup must give maximum performance...
I think you're a little safer if the binder you're using has an adjustable toe height screw ala salomon.
Another thing ive noticed is some manufacturers, Garmont in particular, have a flat "smooth" spot even on the vibram (caveat this would be any boots they sell with swappable soles)that meets directly with the afd on most binders. Now it IS still rubber so I doubt the DIN rating would be the same due to compression of rubber, but i've run mine with sallie binders without issue.
Would I do it with the binders the OP mentions? NO WAY!
Good luck with your knees :D
Wasn't Splat using an AT boot/alipne binding setup when he blew out his knee last year? I might be wrong.
edit: he was on an alpine,not a AT binding.
The official answer is no. But... all I have to say is that some alpine binding/AT boot combos work better together than others.
Hint: Harder rubber soles and gliding AFD's!
as others have said it is not safe...but depending on the alpine binding there are varying degrees of unsafe. Fixed, teflon afd plates (older looks, sally, etc.) are the worst. Gliding afd tracks (look/dyna px bindings, head/tyrolia) are much safer. This is b/c although the AT boot will still grip the afd, the afd will at least slide so the toe can release (the reason the marker dukes have a sliding afd plate).
regardless of sliding afd, if the toe height isn't adjustable there may be too much upward pressure on the binding toe piece preventing the boot to release properly. Unless the at boot has specific iso/din sole like the Scarpa Tornado or interchangeable soles like BD boots or Dynafit Zzeus then it shouldn't be used in alpine bindings.
last year at the world cup I seen alot of course workers on AT boots in fact I would say the boot of choice seemed to be garmont AT's in some kind of alpine binding by a wide margin,but that was for cycling around the course carrying stuff just using the skis for transportation
for real skiing ...I wouldnt
If it you were seein the Garmont Endorphin (grey/red) it has interchangable sole so no problem with compatability
Ya I also have the convertible soles so I know about that but I am pretty sure they were most all using an AT sole in an alpine binding .
Really there was not much skiing and you don't bother with poles cuz you are carrying stuff so no worries about release ...just getting from here to there
I love the "not safe" bullshit
HC- Any chance you could give us the evidence for it being safe? I can see why it might not be, but I'm interested in why you believe that it is.
You see lifities in Europe do it all the time, proper old school vibram soles in alpine binders, as suggested though more for transportation and then comfort when standing around all day...
Somebody here actually did a test of AT boots in alpine binders. Measures torque, release tension, and all that nerdy shit. If I recall the answer was "Don't do it." The release was too inconsistent, and you risk injury. But hey, it's your knee, if you have good insurance go for it .;)
You are right. I have torque tested many different AT/AT and AT/Alpine combos. All I have to say is that AT boots crammed into alpine bindings will release, but always WAY off the chart! A setting of 5 will often release more like a 12! They are just not designed to work together.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
If the boot fits it works ,I would use them if I was just cycling thru at a resort on shitty skis ,carrying shit & getting from here to there
I wouldnt use them on a super fat ski in 2 feet of heavy new snow trying to keep up with the ski to die club
FWIW, I have been using my Scarpa Typhoons with my Lhasa 186s and Rossi Axial 2 14s (DIN at 11ish) and I've been perfectly happy with them. I've been doing most of my resort lapping with this setup and it rips. I'm on the aggressive side so a light AT boot for me is just fine. They've released when they should've and didn't when they shouldn't...no complaints here.
that looks an AT boot with a pretty DIN like sole to me BH ,you can even enlarge the sole and it looks DIN
http://www.backcountry.com/store/SCR...oon|3035006144
Typhoon is absolutely a DIN/ISO sole...no different than an alpine boot sole other than the rubber surface.
I'm pretty sure that an AT sole would not release reliably, laterally at least, in an alpine binding. Hugh Conway has stated otherwise, and I'd be really interested to know upon what his opinion is based.
srsosobo is right.
you'll die.
Well, that's helpful. Thanks very much, Hugh.
It's not bullshit to state that AT boots crammed into alpine bindings are not "safe." Then again, skiing (and life itself) is pretty dangerous!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Conway
Anybody who thinks its just fine has obviously never worked on bindings before. Seriously, just place an AT boot into an alpine binding with and adjustable toe height and see just how much you have to move that toe piece to accommodate an AT toe.
Putting AT boots in alpine binders is like putting motorcycle tires on a bicycle.
Hugh Conway does this all the time, whenever this question pops up. He makes disparaging remarks about other people's opinions, and then declines, even when politely and diplomatically asked, to provide his own reasoning. C'mon Hugh, contribute to the discussion by explaining yourself in an intelligible fashion, or else shut the fuck up.
A dithering fuck like yourself is telling someone to shut up?Quote:
Originally Posted by srsosbso
The DIN tests have been done; you can look at the results and say +/- a couple is cool, or it will kill me. Given people rave over the Flaming srsosbso POS that are Dynafits when it comes to releasing, I think it's fine.
XXX-er the reason the course workers and coaches are using those boots is that they are standing around on a 45* hockey rink for most of the day and the touring boot stays warmer (or feels warmer) on the feet tahn their alpine boots
i can assure you that if they were skiing they would all be in their alpine boots...
I'm telling you to shut up because when I ask you, rather politely I might add, to explain your reasoning, you say nothing. You just make an inane series of adolescent comments about other people's opinions. Are you 12 years old?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Conway
I saw the DIN tests, they say that they could be off by " up to 4 DIN"- enough to break a leg or tear up an ACL. No one but you said anything about anyone dying. Are you incapable of reading?
If you want to set your DIN at 8 and have it really be 12, fly at 'er. Most people would see that as unwise.
What an ass you are.
AT soles walk better too ,I know thats why I had on my AT soles ,its about comfort and convienience ,if I go back I will be rocking AT or tele ... not alpineQuote:
Originally Posted by waxman
the alpine snowboard coach for " A national team " is a local guy and he always wears tele boots ... dude doesnt even snow board
An ACL will tear before a properly set binding will release. So why don't you STFU? MMMK? And if your leg breaks from that increase - try milk instead of sperm.Quote:
Originally Posted by srsosbso
I'm askin you to STFU because, well, you bore me.