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Just watching the Armstrong interview tonigt. Pretty interesting. Sooo much coverage of who him but it is nice to hear in his own words what is going on. Lots of respect for this guy. Almost never a negative word about anybody in the Tour, including his best competitors.
Yes, must see. They catch him just 2 days after the tour. He still looks wane and thin, but details most of the tour from memory.
"It's all about perspective with me"
I love the talk about Alp'Duez. The Lance Chronicles spent an episode on the May training days, and it was almost sublime. Certainly compared to the "hooligan" atmosphere during the race. I really want to climb that hill, and celebrate with good wine and food.
Not where I come from... He's pissed of quite a few Europeans (big name cyclists and fans) with his behaviour, both during the race and during pressconferences.Quote:
Originally posted by p-tex
Almost never a negative word about anybody in the Tour, including his best competitors.
Having said that, I still think he is a great cyclist.. but just needs to have a bit more feeling with cyclings unwritten rules, so there won't be as much negativity surrounding his actions.
Can you elaborate? What behavior did he display in press conferences and during during the race that you found offensive?
What "unwritten rules" of cycling did he break or ignore?
By my account, he lived up to his role of The Boss by chasing down Simeoni, someone who had made a public spectacle of himself by badmouthing cycling.
oh, you mean winning?Quote:
Originally posted by AH
Not where I come from... He's pissed of quite a few Europeans (big name cyclists and fans) with his behaviour
nothing against AH or Euro riders, but I am sure that they are not happy that an "american" has won the tour sooooo many times in a row. Its a sport that they take more to heart than most americans do, someone is always going to be bitter.
those pricks are too easy to piss off. They've had it in for Lance for a while and are constantly looking for anything negative they can say or write about him whether it be doping, or confrontations with other cyclists. I think he's got quite a grasp on the history and unwritten rules of cycling. maybe you could elaborate...Quote:
Originally posted by AH
Not where I come from... He's pissed of quite a few Europeans (big name cyclists and fans) with his behaviour, both during the race and during pressconferences.
Having said that, I still think he is a great cyclist.. but just needs to have a bit more feeling with cyclings unwritten rules, so there won't be as much negativity surrounding his actions.
Unwritten rules are being followed as far as I see it. He's now become the "Patron" supposedly the last one was Hinault, the difference between Hinault and Lance is very little. Both considered pretty rash and abrasive by the public and other cyclists but still demand serious respect for their knowledge and respect of cycling.
The only difference is that Lance is an American and Hinault is French.
those are some pretty bold statements.Quote:
Originally posted by VTskibum
Unwritten rules are being followed as far as I see it. He's now become the "Patron" supposedly the last one was Hinault, the difference between Hinault and Lance is very little. Both considered pretty rash and abrasive by the public and other cyclists but still demand serious respect for their knowledge and respect of cycling.
The only difference is that Lance is an American and Hinault is French.
tywhy,
Do you disagree?
First of all, I don't have anything with cycling whatsoever. Second, I kinda like Armstrong for his comeback, esp. with all these people badmouthing him when he was down (or dying) and trying to get up.Quote:
Originally posted by Crinkle
nothing against AH or Euro riders, but I am sure that they are not happy that an "american" has won the tour sooooo many times in a row. Its a sport that they take more to heart than most americans do, someone is always going to be bitter.
The point is, cycling in Europe is about so much more than just winning a race. It's about tradition, gentlemen like behaviour, respect and history.
It's a common thought over here that Lance is a great athlete, but that he's lacking that feeling somewhat. For example the Mont Ventoux a couple of years ago. Both Lance and Pantani battled it out and Pantani won the stage eventually. Later on Lance said he 'gave it away', which was (in Europe) a big sign of disrespect for his opponent, one of the finest climbers of that time (and multiple giro winner).
Another example is his refusal to even look at some of the journalists while giving a press conference, because they've asked critical questions in the past.
Those things give him a certain image in Europe, where the Tour is huge (I'm talking 8 to 10 hours of coverage each freakin' day). I don't think it's something a European could explain easily, it's just that for most of 'us', it's not a race, it's the Tour.
Like the ones who tried to break into his hotel room? Or perhaps the ones who wrote LA Confidential, I wouldn't answer their questions either...Quote:
Originally posted by AH
Another example is his refusal to even look at some of the journalists while giving a press conference, because they've asked critical questions in the past.
Correct, but there are more 'persona non grata', who haven't done anything like that.
Quote:
Originally posted by AH
I don't think it's something a European could explain easily, it's just that for most of 'us', it's not a race, it's the Tour and everybody's panties are bunched up because an American keeps winning it..
let's call a spade a spade here.
Exactly my point.. For you, it's about winning a race, for us, it's about the Tour.
its like the euros are red sox fans, and americans are yankee fans.
one side wins, the other side swarms around the minutia, asks anyoing questions, blames everybody, and has high blood pressure.
so in addition to winning he also has to kiss the asses of the journalists trying to slander him?
and base, my high blood pressure is more a result of the fact that i subsist on sandwiches and hamburgers bought at convenience stores, than any baseball team.
He doesn't have to do anything. However, ff he'd respect the 'laws of the tour' a bit more, he'd be way more popular with a lot of Europeans.
Still not sure what riders don't respect Lance (besides Fillipo Simeoni obviously), never heard anything bad from them, just from the press and fans.
(edit - spelled Simeoni wrong)
What channel did you watch the tour on?
There's plenty of riders, they just don't all do it out in the open.. Lemond, Pantani, Virenque, Boogerd, etc
I watched the whole interview. While I found it interesting, it was painful to watch. Ligget and Sherwin were horrendous-and that was an edited version-I wonder how bad the stuff they edited out was?
LeMond's an American and a lush. Virenque's just bitter because he needs drugs to climb like Lance...and got pinched for it. Pantani is and always will be bitter.Quote:
Originally posted by AH
What channel did you watch the tour on?
There's plenty of riders, they just don't all do it out in the open.. Lemond, Pantani, Virenque, Boogerd, etc
How about somebody that matters?
Pantani is dead.Quote:
Originally posted by bagtagley
Pantani is and always will be bitter.
I think there are people here that don't think of it as "another race" and understand and enjoy the history of the Tour. I also think that Lance has just had enough of all the bad press and slandering of his character by the press about drug use. So of course those that are looking for that story STILL will be rubbed the wrong way. There are a lot of great riders in Europe, Lance trains specifically for this race, while others are still riding in other races and tours leading up to the Tour. I think Lance has been a great champion, heck the guy lives a large portion of time in Europe, talks about how he loves it there, even learned French so he could communicate better with the media during the Tour. Anytime someone says anything, everyone knows that someone in the press can "quote" it and make it sound wrong.
ExactlyQuote:
Originally posted by Artie Fufkin
Pantani is dead.
I just looked at Hinault along with Merckx as being on an entirely different level than Lance.Quote:
Originally posted by VTskibum
tywhy,
Do you disagree?
I don't know about that. Seemed to be some tension between Lance and Sherwin, but other than that, lots of detail you won't find anywhere else (until he writes a serious book about the racing), and some great quotes. He seemed to be quite comfy and respectful with Ligget.Quote:
Originally posted by half-fast
I watched the whole interview. While I found it interesting, it was painful to watch. Ligget and Sherwin were horrendous-and that was an edited version-I wonder how bad the stuff they edited out was?
I respect Lance as an athlete - awesome.
I've thought his slagging on Cofidis - who paid him while he was receiving cancer treatment, but dumped him when he refused a physical, showed a distinct lack of class.
cj
I think he was in his 4th round of chemotherapy (or days afterwards) when they demanded a physical from him. They also reaped in loads of publicity when they stood in front of reporters and supported him and said they'd do whatever it took, then when he was at his worst pulled out. Maybe it's b/c I've had family die from Cancer, but that's pretty low of Coifidis if you ask me.
ty-
Mercx is/was on his own level definitely, overall above both Lance and Hinault in my book. I certainly wasn't trying to say that Mercx wasn't at the head of the peleton when he was racing, just think that he was much different leader of the races than Hinault and Armstrong.
And Lance gave his props, when he mentioned that mountain time trial (when, where?) when Mercx basically blew it off, lost a few minutes (his hat cocked to the side), and still won the tour. cocky.Quote:
Originally posted by VTskibum
cj
Mercx is/was on his own level definitely, overall above both Lance and Hinault in my book. I certainly wasn't trying to say that Mercx wasn't at the head of the peleton when he was racing, just think that he was much different leader of the races than Hinault and Armstrong.
My info was based on this Outside article from 98Quote:
Originally posted by VTskibum
cj
I think he was in his 4th round of chemotherapy (or days afterwards) when they demanded a physical from him. They also reaped in loads of publicity when they stood in front of reporters and supported him and said they'd do whatever it took, then when he was at his worst pulled out. Maybe it's b/c I've had family die from Cancer, but that's pretty low of Coifidis if you ask me.
http://outside.away.com/magazine/0498/9804lance.html
"Last August, a week after Nichols issued him a clean bill of health and a green light to resume full competitive training, Armstrong was dropped by his French cycling team, Cofidis. "
"He still hadn't ridden for the team, and as the 1997 racing season began, team officials wanted to know whether they could count on him. Armstrong's agreement with Cofidis was subject to a medical examination he had yet to take when he was diagnosed with cancer. Now Cofidis asked that he be examined by its doctors, a not unreasonable request, especially considering that the company was paying Armstrong $1.25 million a year. But Stapleton would have none of it. "They forced our hand," Stapleton contends. "No way were we going to let them subject Lance Armstrong to a medical examination in front of the world. At the end of the day, we struck a deal. If Lance didn't ride in four races in 1997, they had the right to terminate his contract.""
If your an athlete and your unwilling to let your employer know your fitness, to my mind they have a right, even a duty to their sponsors, to terminate your contract. If the dollar amount wasn't in the millions it'd probably be different to me.
I'd just recommend reading his book. His and Bill Stapleton's POV is quite a bit different than Cofidis/Outdoor Mag. ESPN certainly had a different take on the situation.
Another article painting a different picture, hard to say as none of us where there... http://espn.go.com/cycling/france99/news/comeback.html
Quote:
Especially his own team, Cofidis. "At the time of my announcement, while the world was listening, they pledged their support, the PR way.
"But then they came over to see how sick I was. They saw me as sick as a dog, not able to get up from my bed, vomiting. I thought, oh, that's nice, they've come to see me. And then an hour later my agent comes in and tells me, well ..." They paid him 25 percent of his contract, Armstrong said.
He wasn't even at his lowest point when Cofidis saw him. "The third and fourth rounds were worse," he said, referring to the chemotherapy.