getting into guiding

well i did a search and couldn't find anything, so i think this hasn't been covered before.

i want to get into raft guiding next summer(i know that's a long time from now, but i need to start figuring shit out as there may be some other big changes for me next summer/fall). i'm not exactly sure where i'll be applying, maine if i am staying in new england or somewhere out west if i end up going to bozeman for school.

i'm currently taking a wfr course and next semester i may be taking a wfr to emt class. i don't really have any valid whitewater experience (messing around surfing waves at the beach with a kayak is not something i plan on putting on my resume and i've only been rafting once), but from the research i've done it seems like i still might have a chance getting a job with some companies. i'm a fast learner and i guess being a snowboard instructor has given me some leadership experience with a group of people who don't really have much of a clue as to what they are doing.

basically i'm just wondering if there are any other things i can do to make myself look more employable to outfitters and what outfitters are generally better for newbies like me.

so feel free to jong away, but any help is appreciated.

You need to find a guide training course. Here in CA, lots of outfitters offer a guide school, and some community colleges, too.

Training usually lasts from one to three weeks, costs range from hundreds to well over a grand.
If you complete the training and don't completely suck, they'll take your number and call you in to work when things get busy.

Basic first aid is required. OEC and EMT are great, as is swiftwater rescue training. (some guide schools will even include CPR and SRT certifications.)

There is no river guide certification or licensing in California.

Here's a rundown from a local outfitter that I highly recommend:
http://www.arta.org/training/pgt.htm

Most of the rafting companies on the Yellowstone would certainly hire you if you have experience snowboard instructing and have a WFR. I've certainly known people with fewer relevant qualifications than that who got hired. You just get paid absolute dick for the first few weeks of the season while you train with more experienced guides and the water is high, but they are willing to train. There are a fuckload of rafting companies down in Gardiner who hire pretty much any warm body to fill the raft, and the living conditions are complete squalor, though I've heard it's a decent enough place to spend the summer. I would just call around down there in the spring.

To get into it, just call up the guiding companies and tell them what you're looking to do. If you can be there for the full-season, many offer some form of housing (sometimes better referred to as shelter). It's really not that tough to get into guiding, just make calls to the companies in the areas you're going to be in.

My girlfriend worked the Hudson in NY, but went to guide training in Maine. She raves about how good her training program was and how stringent Maine's laws are. It's a good place to learn and develop strong safety habits.

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Originally Posted by ski_adk

It's a good place to learn and develop strong safety habits.

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Just remember:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../Safety1st.jpg

You looking at guiding multiday or just day trips?

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

You looking at guiding multiday or just day trips?

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with my lack of experience i'd probably just do day trips at first, but i would like to eventually get into guiding multiday trips.

well you can always see if the school you are applying to has a rafting program, UCDavis has a big one, and we do our guide training in march. i don't think not rafting is going ot make a huge difference especially if you are an outdoor enthusiast, and have done other outdoor instruction. The WFR will definitely help.

I don't know about Bozeman but I used to guide for UM in Missoula and we offered several guide schools that you get credit for and end up with the qualifications for a guiding license in Idaho. Its pretty easy to get a job guiding the gorge outside of Missoula and Bozeman has some fun places as well. Oregon is also a great place to learn, probably the Deschutes. I've guided in several states for the last 7 years so if you want more specific info pm me.

The hardest part about being a raftguide is telling your parents that you are a degenerate dirtbag.

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Originally Posted by RootSkier

The hardest part about being a raftguide is telling your parents that you are a degenerate dirtbag.

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I always thought that finding the right shampoo for the crabs you get in the "dorms" was supposed to be the hardest part?

Wait, there was a shampoo?

Fuck.

Seems like around here in WV they'll hire anyone to push rubber down the lower yough, also seems like the Cheat business is dying off, but you can also probably bank a little if you can guide during Gauley season, just don't let those motherfuckers try and sober you up by hiding your tip money under a bar of soap.

to get on the gauley though you're going to have to put your time in on something less desirable during the summer season. as far as the bar of soap... good luck

IF you think it is something you want to do for a while, try and find a company that has lots of different permits. This will let you work different rivers as your skills build without having to deal with the seniority bs. One that also has multi day permits is a good option as well so you can try that too. Multi days are definitely better money but it is nice being able to sleep in your own bed (or tent,camper,etc) and be able to kayak after your day is done.

From the places I have worked, the west pays much better. Expect to not make jack your first year though.

Wilderness First Responder, Swiftwater Rescue Technician I & II (or it might be SRT, WRT now - they keep changing it) will get you through the door at most places... Nothing beats experience though and if you can't paddle worth shit, good luck

Edit: Your looking at about $1500-2000 worth of certs there alone.. If you are lucky you will find a company that will pay for or supplement the costs for you.. If thats the case though expect to make only tips for the season

if you been playing in the surf, you've likely learned to roll...make it bomb proof

Get down to the river, stream, creeks etc paddle if you can or just stare and learn to read the water. the capacity to read the river is the most important skill you'll use every minute on the river.

never forget just how powerful water can be .........

Move to the Southeast and work at NOC.
They do all your schoolin and there's a ton of room to move around and a ton of sick boaters to paddle with. Long season, housing, low cost of living and many beautiful ladies.
It's one of the oldest and biggest rafting companies in the states and once they learn you right you can write your own ticket all over the country.
Though the climbing is much better in WV.

I started raftguiding 3 years ago. im from illinois, had been in a raft once, like ten years earlier, didnt even know what a kayak skirt was, called paddles "oars", and my knowledge of CPR FirstAid was bandaids and whiskey shots.
That being said, i was hired for a company in colorado, they trained me, offered all the certs within the co (about $500), and let me live in the boathouse for $30/mo. The $500 is rough as shit, add another $300 if you have no gear (i worked in 30something degree water, so needed alot of gear)and youre already out almost a grand before you get 1 paycheck. I basically worked for free my rookie year after all the living expenses*. We were the only company that made SWRT mandatory, which if you dont take would knock off a few hundred bucks.
So, basically, you dont need to know shit to become a raftguide, so youre already overqualified with your certs and instructing experience.
Oh yeah, look into the National Whitewater Center outside of Charlotte, NC too, theyre always hiring and you can get a shit ton of yak time on the side, with some of the sickest kayakers around.





*whiskey, beer and a good lawyer included in expenses

mmm... don't work for noc. least fun rafting company ever. also - fewest ladies at a rafting company. also they drug test. also their attitude is often pretty bad. i've heard noc guides say they don't really have any competitors (i would call the other guys competitors) that sort of thing. there's a reason there's so many nicknames for them.
my advice is this: figure out a good river to work on and then go hang out a little at the rafting outposts to measure the vibe - then decide. rafting places don't pay much, so they pretty much take anyone.
just do yerself a favor and don't work for noc.

Does that come from someone who worked at NOC or for one of the competitors? Two different perspectives.
True, they're not always liked by the other local rafting companies. It comes with the territory when they're as big and influential as they are.
But many of the worlds whitewater operations have been populated by NOC alumni for a reason.

Hey brannen, what company was that?

true - many of the world's WW operations have been populated by noc people because noc sucks to work for, and their employees usually go elsewhere in short order. that's how i and a lot of my friends got to be working for the competitors. i've been in the biz > a decade, and i've seen noc change in a big way much for the worse. and i've worked for plenty of companies, and noc was the least fun of them all. noc chattooga, for example, - prohibits partying. -
not to say that they don't have some stand up people working for them. they do. but by and large there's this attitude of noc owns the river and noc guides are the only competent guides out there, and that just ain't true.

if you end up guiding in maine, be prepared to drop some cash on guide school. that being said, most of the companies up there will work something out with you if you end up working the whole season. in maine, i suggest moxie outdoor adventures - moxierafting.com .

maine, btw, is my new favorite place to work.

i work for clear creek

Gotta about 15 years of guiding in before I semi-retired. Some of the best times of my life. I have worked on all the Payettes, the Salmons - mostly on the Headwaters Salmon cuz that is where the money was. ( these are all Idaho rivers ) And did a few years of multidays on the MF so I might have some thoughts for you.

I came into guiding with an OEC cert ( bc ski patrol requirement here ), a CDL license so I could drive the bus and I could cook. I got work the earliest of all the trainees because of that. I also took a river rescue course that first year which helped with some of the opportunities later.

Almost every company up here runs (did) a spring in house guide training. I ran ours for three years and made the recommendations for hiring from the river skills side of the equation. Ours was a week long with doubles on the river every day with two paddle boats usually. Add another boat or so of returning guides and a kayak or two - that was the usual makeup.

What I looked for was not the guy who was the best to start of guide, but the one who learned the most and could read the river by the end of the week. A lot of people didn't have a clue when they started but were well on their way at the end. I also looked for the trainee who works best with the team. You are doing lots of group things, from rolling boats, to tossing them around etc. Some people couldn't quite get how to work with others. Hustling too much, or at the wrong times to sort of show how fast they could move, was almost as bad as goldbricking. Seems like there are lots of ways to get hurt in the handling of the gear so you need to work with the crew to make it safe.
Keep moving, always look for where you could help out.
Watch lots. Speak less. Work out how to paddle exactly in time with whatever crew you get tossed in with, even the incompetent ones.

And there are a few, yes there are a few people who can't read water. I don't know how they can't - maybe the mechanics of it are too abstract in the viscous state. I am thankful that I can, it is such a great medium to interpret.

Don't know where wages are now, I was at about $125 a day when done. I made almost as much in tips as in wages to start.

The crews that are worked with on the river are still some of my closest friends. The drop everything, bail you out of jail at 4 in the morning kind of friends. Hope to hell I never need that. Something about working with people in that kind of environment and you get close.

Good luck with everything. PM if you want for more info.

If you're gonna be in Bozeman, Gardner is probably the warmest, chillest spot with the most opportunities. Good raft companies work the Gallatin as well but its cold and a short season, not a lot of business. Gardiner is a really chill spot and good people, but absolutely zero chicks, you have a better chance of converting a bison to sleep with you, your in the middle of nowhere but have Yellowstone Park as your backyard. Yellowstone Raft Company is definitely the most established company to work for there. Plus if you don't kayak you won't get pissed off about the Black Canyon being closed to kayaking.