What is it with broken toes?

About 3 months ago I was walking down the hall at full stride in my house and I kicked the fucking cat scratching post. I hit that bugger straight on with my left pinky toe. When I tell you there was no pain like this, I mean it. I fell to the ground clutching my foot screaming "OH MY FUCKING GOD! KILL ME NOW!" and some other things that I don't even remember.

My toe swelled up 3x its normal size and turned a beautiful spectrum of green, purple, and blue. It looked like the most fearsome pimp in Jersey City decided to administer his worst cane-beating on that little toe. I mean, it was pretty bad.

So I dealt with this personal horror by limping on it until I could no longer deny the possibility that it was damaged beyond repair. I trudged (well, limped) my ass to the walk-in medican center and had this little wrecked fucker x-rayed. They told me it was not flat out broken but "it might be fractured," and "we can't do anything." "Thank you very much," and "please pay your co-pay before you go." Harumph.

So here we are, 3 god-damned months later and let me tell you I have my pink strappy sandals on and that little toe is bulging out and I don't like this one bit. This thing has had 3 months to heal, but it is still semi-inflamed. It's not painful...well at least until it gets crammed into one of my high heeled shoes. Since I pretty much only wear high heels most of the time, this is problematic. I don't even want to think about what will happen when I attempt to put my ski boots on.

Soooo....what is the deal here? Anyone here broken a toe and had it remain swollen and/or mis-shappen after like three freakin' months? Jeebus. I can't afford new ski boots and this really sucks. Especially because I have (or rather had) nice toes and now I have this pudgy little pinky toe that interferes w/ wearing shoes.

I still have not killed the cats by the way, or removed the scratching post. I'm just more careful to look where I'm going. If I stub it one more time though I can't say the post or the cats will be safe...

And yes, Gimp Central, bitch.
:D

Sprite

I broke my pinky toe three years ago. It no longer bends at the knuckle, and kind of sticks out a little. It'll eventually stop bothering you. Oh yeah, and the nail quit growing. Doctors told me what they told you and still say the same thing, nothing they can do.

An employee of mine a few years ago broke her big toe kicking her son (in a play fight, he's a stout and solid 14 year old kid). She didn't know it was broken until she went to the doc over a week later.

She missed out on a season of skiing, and had to have surgery.

Bottom line, blame your cat.

Maybe take all your high heels down to the (ski)boot doctor/fitter and have them all punched out to make room. I bet they're in need of some work these days anyway.

After 3 broken toes, 2 fingers, both ankles,kneecap, rib and 2 monthe ago my fucking sternum I feel your pain. :):nonono2:

Bad x-ray? The thing should still not be swollen after this long. Slightly dislocated? Don't know but I would go to a different op to see.

Yeah, I don't want to be a big baby about this but I did wonder if it was somehow out of whack...like still disjointed. I think I'll do that

Sprite

Is the color back to normal?

Cut it off.... seriously.

I wouldn't worry too much. I have broken all my toes due to college tennis. I rarely wear shoes if not at work, and have also had numerous broken toes due to jamming and stubbing as well (and one ski-tuning accident). They take a long time to fully heal. I would just keep them as straight as possible and set them if they actually snapped and let time take its course. Unless its growing sideways, I bet you are fine.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn (Express!) and played a doctor in a college dormroom 2 am play the night of the Alpha Phi mixer, so I know of what I speak.

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Originally Posted by Trashcan

Is the color back to normal?

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Yeah, at least it is normal colored. But it's got a bend to it sort of now. Like an elbow macaroni. WTF! I do want to cut it off in a way.

lol.. makes me think of that Dirty Hand poem:

My hand is dirty.
I must cut it off.
To wash it is pointless.
The water is putrid.
The soap is bad.
It won't lather.
The hand is dirty.
It's been dirty for years.

I used to keep it
out of sight
in my pants pocket.
No one suspected a thing.
People came up to me,
wanting to shake hands.
I would refuse,
and the hidden hand
would leave its imprint
on my thigh.
And I saw
it was the same
if I used it or not.
Disgust was the same. . .

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Originally Posted by commonlaw

the night of the Alpha Phi mixer

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I was a-phi in college. Is that you, Trout? :cool:

Sprite, I think this toe thing is rightly-deserved punishment for having one of those ugly cat-structures in your house!

why can't they design some cat furniture that isn't heeedious?! i have veto-d any sort of cat structure in our apartment until they can design something that doesn't look like ass.
http://www.petstorebyconny.com/membe...wo_Kitties.jpg

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Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

I was a-phi in college. Is that you, Trout? :cool:

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Depends on how big the trout was.

toes take forever to heal. Mainly because your walking on the fuckers and they arent in a cast. ive had a couple bad 'stubbed" toes that lasted like a week or 2 that didnt change color. I have no doubt that thing will probably bug you for 6 months if you fractured it.

Your only option is surgery on toes if it doesnt eventually go away. But ive jammed fingers playing hoops that took months to heal. My pinky is permanantly fuxored unless i wanted to get surgery on it. if its bugging you that much, cut it off. :p

If it makes you feel any better, my toenails on my big toes have finally fallen off from being clamped into my ski boots all winter. After the second year of this, I was thrilled when they finally came off and couldn't wait to show people. My mom was horrified by my half-detached nails. Now I'm just hoping they'll grow back before snow falls.

That's a pretty fancy cat condo there, BeanDip. A swing and everything!

Sorry about the toe, Sprite. I bet it's fine by the time you put on ski boots.

play a ransome, send the pinky toe to show you are serial, and get rid of the cat to make sure you protect the remaining 9.

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Originally Posted by snowsprite

Yeah, at least it is normal colored. But it's got a bend to it sort of now. Like an elbow macaroni. WTF!

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Yep, pretty sure I broke or at least fractured my 2nd toe 4 weeks ago. It was discolored for a few weeks and hurt to walk on. But now all is good, but it is bent like an elbow macaroni. Fuck!!!

Sprite: Take care of that thing.. You can end up with ligament and nerve damage. Happened to my brother but it WAS his big toe.

Breaking a toe sucks because you get no sympathy and it hurts like hell. I broke my little toe many years ago. Couldn't wear closed-toe shoes for six months.

Anyway - ow.

my big toe got taken out surfing northern cali over 10 years ago, got dropped in on by a buddy. it's still tweaked and "goes out" if I load it up too hard, weirdest feeling.
Maybe I should get it fused. No prob in ski boots so I don't really sweat it.

Ya have another three months before you are back in boots (unless you are SA-bound) so you still have lots more time to heal.

BTW, this thread is worthless without pics

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Originally Posted by snowsprite

It looked like the most fearsome pimp in Jersey City decided to administer his worst cane-beating on that little toe.

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funnyness.


If you like broken toes, you ough to come dancing with me.

"Hell I can get you a toe by 3 0'clock this afternoon--with nail polish. These fucking amateurs."

I had a "might be fractured" wrist in 8th grade and it still bothers me when it's going to rain.

lol, that's a great story. I broke or seriously jammed my left pinky finger at the first joint behind the nail. It's still sort jacked, i did this on Thanksgiving....o7, yep. Long time ago...still bugs me a bit.

Any new knowledge on broken toe? I snapped right foot number 2 toe on Wednesday. It bent over to the side 45 degrees. I straightened it. It flopped over a few more times before I buddy splinted it and drove to Urgent Care.

They removed my splint and x-rayed it. It flopped over again hopping back to the exam room and I straightened it (maybe I should have waited for the doc see the flop). They did a bad buddy tape job and sent me home with a walking boot and referral to DPM.

I've seen one doc who says I need immediate surgery and he can get me in Tuesday. He looked at x-ray only and says the broken end has no blood supply and is dying. Dr Google, and another DPM seen since says buddy taping is the usual answer, and if I decide for surgery, there's no rush. 2nd DPM says bone on bone means it's making new blood supply.

"Closed displaced fracture of proximal phalanx of lesser toe of right foot." Crack runs a few mm before the distal end, and there's a small bone chip to the side. Will upload x-ray if useful.

My concern is that it heals well and provides 40 years of trouble-free heavy use. Skiing, hiking, running, etc. Also I feel like this toe was helping to support my bunion. This old thread I've bumped doesn't say much. I'm less than gruntled with professional care so far. Any insights?

I've seen one doc who says I need immediate surgery and he can get me in Tuesday. He looked at x-ray only and says the broken end has no blood supply and is dying.

WTF? How can the broken part have no blood supply? It would seem the veins are in the fleshy part, not the broken bone. 2nd opinion for sure.

Don't fuck with it. Seems that an operation is the safest thing you can do. No downside, and it's a sure thing.

And it's possible that the broken bone is impinging on blood vessels.

I hurt my big toe climbing, didn't do anything about it, and now i can't climb anymore.

Toes are really important.

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How would he know anything about blood supply from just an X-ray? That’s a huge red flag of bs imo unless some other detail is left out. 2nd opinion for sure.

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Originally Posted by rod9301

Don't fuck with it. Seems that an operation is the safest thing you can do. No downside, and it's a sure thing.

And it's possible that the broken bone is impinging on blood vessels.

I hurt my big toe climbing, didn't do anything about it, and now i can't climb anymore.

Toes are really important.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

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Thanks. I agree. Hope your toe can be fixed. From experience, it sucks to lose an activity.

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Originally Posted by mcski

How would he know anything about blood supply from just an X-ray? That’s a huge red flag of bs imo unless some other detail is left out. 2nd opinion for sure.

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Yeah, right? I messaged last night asking for more detail. I could not get in anywhere, and he made an appointment for me, and worked to get me the earliest surgery opening (that I decided to let go after 2nd doc). Doc 2 agreed surgery was reasonable, mainly because they put a pin down the middle, stabilizing the injury.

Morning after injury I had no patience. Thank dog for family members calling around for me or I might have no care - Urgent Care told me to get seen in the AM. Their HMO/network delayed half day then scheduled in July :(

Got the stress shits, probably from injury, but worrying over care not helping either. Intestines seem to be unknotting now. When I was a teen, I was seen for a broken finger in hours, though they decided not to align it, and it's caused minor pain intermittently ever since. Expected the same speed of care this time... with an aligned, stable, splinted toe.

I have this crazy idea to 3d-model my left foot, mirror it, and 3d-print a shell to immobilize the right foot and stabilize the toe nice and straight. Also will hold the bunion toe off of it while it heals. And provide relatively hard shell protection.

Hell, might consider doing the bunion at the same time ?

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Originally Posted by rod9301

Don't fuck with it. Seems that an operation is the safest thing you can do. No downside, and it's a sure thing.

And it's possible that the broken bone is impinging on blood vessels.

I hurt my big toe climbing, didn't do anything about it, and now i can't climb anymore.

Toes are really important.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

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Yeah because a hallux fracture and a distal phalanx fracture of the second toe are the same thing. No downside to surgery? How about infection, non/mal-union and possibly arthritis? Do you have any clue how small the distal phalanx in the second toe is? I’ve worked in surgery for almost 36 years and I don’t remember ever seeing an ORIF of a distal phalanx except for the hallux/great toe.


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Yeah because a hallux fracture and a distal phalanx fracture of the second toe are the same thing. No downside to surgery? How about infection, non/mal-union and possibly arthritis? Do you have any clue how small the distal phalanx in the second toe is? I’ve worked in surgery for almost 36 years and I don’t remember ever seeing an ORIF of a distal phalanx except for the hallux/great toe.


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Oops, did I write distal? My break is the proximal phalanx bone, adjacent to meta-tarsal (aka arch). The break is near the distal end of that bone. I also wondered about the size of the bones and how well a surgeon could align small slippery things. And whether it would be aligned just as well externally. Though a pin would give me much confidence it would stay aligned while healing.

Do you see ORIFs of proximal #2 with no joint involvement?

Attachment 495693

The other two images did not show misalignment according to doc 2, but who knows how it's moved since then. After buddying to the big toe, it had 20 degrees or so bend (via eyeball). I buddied to toe#3, and it looks straight to me now (no pain, no force to realign). No idea how it looks now in other image planes. In my experience adjusting it the first day, it only moved in the one plane, though I felt it would move elsewise if I tried. First time I thought maybe it was just dislocated, but alas it's broken.

There doesn't seem to be much pain. Maybe my back pain dominates it, though I think it's not much pain. Occasionally there is some dull pain or burning sensation.

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Originally Posted by mcski

Hell, might consider doing the bunion at the same time ?

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Doc 2 suggested that if I opt for surgery. Doc 2 also thought it fine to do surgery after healing though who wants to recover twice?

My thinking is if it heals straight or at least really functional, then I can put off the bunion surgery a few more decades.

How it looks without the surgical shoe. MacGyver'ed it
Attachment 495699
Big toe held to side with long skewer, countering a few degrees of bunion. #2 sistered to #3, with a folded up paper on the joint so it pivots straight. Twist-tie pulls pair just a bit to the left - I don't want #2 having any ideas about stretching longer as it heals. Also want it to continue supporting the bunion post recovery. That pair is raised, dunno if I should force them down to touch the shoe. The piece of paper on #2 and 3 hold the skewer segment off the skin. Short skewer is mainly insurance against bumps (until I added twist-tie).

Here's someone else's 3d printed cast. I was thinking to cover the whole forefoot, with a top shell and bottom shell clamshelled together. With added craft work as needed to align #2 before taping the clam shut. Then I can ditch the tape, bamboo, and twist-tie.

It's tough when you have a second opinion that disagrees with the first. At that point I would tend to go with the doc who gives the explanation that makes the most sense. You mentioned concern about the blood supply to the distal fragment. Then the question would be--how do you know that. And let him explain the blood supply to the toe bones, To the guy who says buddy taping is enough--will I be functionally impaired if it doesn't heal or heals crooked. Make them make sense to you.

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Originally Posted by LongShortLong

Oops, did I write distal? My break is the proximal phalanx bone, adjacent to meta-tarsal (aka arch). The break is near the distal end of that bone. I also wondered about the size of the bones and how well a surgeon could align small slippery things. And whether it would be aligned just as well externally. Though a pin would give me much confidence it would stay aligned while healing.

Do you see ORIFs of proximal #2 with no joint involvement?

Attachment 495693

The other two images did not show misalignment according to doc 2, but who knows how it's moved since then. After buddying to the big toe, it had 20 degrees or so bend (via eyeball). I buddied to toe#3, and it looks straight to me now (no pain, no force to realign). No idea how it looks now in other image planes. In my experience adjusting it the first day, it only moved in the one plane, though I felt it would move elsewise if I tried. First time I thought maybe it was just dislocated, but alas it's broken.

There doesn't seem to be much pain. Maybe my back pain dominates it, though I think it's not much pain. Occasionally there is some dull pain or burning sensation.

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My bad, you did say proximal. However that’s a really small piece of bone on the X-ray and you probably fuck it up more trying to pin it or open it and put screws in. If you have surgery the recovery would likely be the same as conservative treatment. You’re going to be in a cast boot or post op shoe with non weight bearing. It’s in the joint so I would bet it’s going to wind up stiff either way. Phalanges, fingers or toes rarely heal without stiffness if the joint is involved. I would try conservative treatment if it was me but everyone needs to decide about surgery on their own.

I was mostly responding to rod’s claim that there’s no downside to surgery.


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Originally Posted by old goat

It's tough when you have a second opinion that disagrees with the first. At that point I would tend to go with the doc who gives the explanation that makes the most sense. You mentioned concern about the blood supply to the distal fragment. Then the question would be--how do you know that. And let him explain the blood supply to the toe bones, To the guy who says buddy taping is enough--will I be functionally impaired if it doesn't heal or heals crooked. Make them make sense to you.

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Agree. Doc 1 seems to have the minority opinion. I asked for further explanation, but none came - maybe his office wanted to bill another appointment to get the answer, but idk, it's Saturday. Doc 2 says surgery ok, and waiting ok, and surgery later ok if there's problems. Also to see doc 3, a surgeon. In the appointment, she seemed to support the surgery option, but I got her to call back for clarification, and my read is she supports buddy taping, but wasn't advising against doc 1's surgery though she did disagree about the blood supply issue. She also examined me, and my sister was there to ask more questions, so it was a more productive visit overall for me. Especially appreciated the call back.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

My bad, you did say proximal. However that’s a really small piece of bone on the X-ray and you probably fuck it up more trying to pin it or open it and put screws in. If you have surgery the recovery would likely be the same as conservative treatment. You’re going to be in a cast boot or post op shoe with non weight bearing. It’s in the joint so I would bet it’s going to wind up stiff either way. Phalanges, fingers or toes rarely heal without stiffness if the joint is involved. I would try conservative treatment if it was me but everyone needs to decide about surgery on their own.

I was mostly responding to rod’s claim that there’s no downside to surgery.


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Thanks. I don't want to hear about stiffness, but good to know it's waiting for me with either approach. I also appreciated Rod's surgery plug, and my limited reading says it's more often warranted on the big toe. Likewise liv2ski's comment about a curved toe that works fine.

I'm leaning hard toward conservative treatment, especially if I can 3d print something that makes it easy. My MacGyver taping satisfies me alignment and immobilization-wise, but it is a pain in the ass, and I'm concerned that movement during untaping/retaping it will impede healing. And that applies to any buddy taping. In doc 2's office visit, it looked like the tape is causing skin irritation. And those problems apply to any buddy taping, the others just trade simpler taping for less alignment and stability. Maybe I can leave the current setup on for two weeks or however long before the toe needs less support.

I broke the same foot 2x this year on opposite sides. FML. I'm getting really good at reeling back and healing quickly, but it is really tough.