distance running

i'm sure there are some folks around these parts who have experience with training for, and running, marathon-length races. don't remember too many threads for this topic. so... advice about training, particular races, past experiences and whatever else might be relevant would be much appreciated. kinda skiing related, since it's a fitness kind of thing- right?

me? i've been doing some training miles for a while now, with my goal being a sub-four hour marathon sometime this late summer or fall. completed a half-marathon in late march (1:48) and was surprised by how easy my body handled things. during that race, i just tried to maintain a comfortable pace without starting too quickly or kicking towards the end. the race environment was different than a training run, but it was a local race on familiar turf.

haven't decided on which marathon course i'll choose as my first just yet, because of the variables involved- like time of year, course elevation, organization/execution, crowd participation, etc. input would be much appreciated. since most races around the northeast and mid-atlantic seem to be in september/october/november, now seems to be the time to start getting organized and all of that. thanks in advance.

younz just run up an dahn 'em hills on mahnt worshinton, n'at.

Seriously, I have a book called "4 Months to a 4 Hour Marathon" and I don't run unless I'm being chased. PM me your address and I'll send it to ya this week.

Galloway's Book on Running is an excellent resource for marathon training. It has all sorts of charts and stuff for achieving your target finish time. It worked for me. (Chicago Marathon '98; 3:42!)

Acostiga,

Don't sell yourself short. With some fade calculated into your 1/2 marathon time, you are looking at a 3:40-3:45 marathon right now.

Benji Durden has a good training plan, especially if you are very busy. Lean and mean program with no junk miles.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/...0-1202,00.html

Good luck. Distance running is addictive.

Before the knee blowout, I was training for my second. Runner's world is a good resource, but I wouldn't get carried away. You seem to have a good foundation. Just keep running. No need to get all caught up in the runner geek scene. My first marathon was in Burlington,VT at the end of May. I finnished in 3:01. The cool weather and flat course were factors. I would choose a race in a cooler climate. I know San Fran has one this fall, and the weather there is cool and fogggy. Might be a good one. Good luck.

Marine Corps Marathon in DC is close and flat. If I could do it, anyone can...

Marathons are surprisingly fun.

I ran San Francisco in 3:45 two years ago, hope to break 3:30 in DC this year - not all that fast, but a great way to get in shape for winter.

A few thoughts:

Follow a training plan - just having a plan is probably more important than the plan itself. Keeps you motivated. I found this site helpful: www.halhigdon.com

Don't overtrain - I know several people, including my Dad, who hurt themselves being too gung-ho in training. Take rest days, be lazy.

Stretch - after running, that's when it counts. If you don't have any formal education in yoga or proper athletic stretching, buy a book or take a class - warmups before little league practice don't count.

Pay attention to your stride - run tall, feel your feet roll through each stride, keep your arms loose - better way to occupy your mind than music, makes it more of a sport.

Get some good shoes, and a proper running shirt for the long days - sweat soaked cotton sucks.

Don't plan on doing anything the next day.

Good luck, have fun!

Pftt, road running. My wife is training to run the Skyline Trail near Jasper. It starts at about 5200' and climbs over 3 passes to a max of 7800' with a total of 4800' gain. End to end it is 46km. It is usually a 3 day hike but he is doing itin a day, unsupported.

I think she is fucking nuts.

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Originally posted by Beaver


I think she is fucking nuts.

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Beav,

Who's this "nuts" guy and have you confronted him about this?

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Originally posted by Beaver
Pftt, road running. My wife is training to run the Skyline Trail near Jasper. It starts at about 5200' and climbs over 3 passes to a max of 7800' with a total of 4800' gain. End to end it is 46km. It is usually a 3 day hike but he is doing itin a day.

I think she is fucking nuts.

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She must be one hard to catch beaver:eek:

Edit: Marine corps marathon I hear is very hot.

I can run a marathon in 2hours flat.

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Originally posted by Rascal King
I can run a marathon in 2hours flat.

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And then you rolled out of bed and woke up?

unnecessary bump, and "thanks" for the good stuff so far. getting into running has been rewarding, and a great way to burn away the stress/hatred/angst/aggression that tend to build up in an office environment- at least in my experience. i get bored with being in a gym or running on a treadmill- being able to run trails, through a park or around the neighborhood keeps me entertained.

as far as particular races go, i've been told that the marine corps is a good choice for a first-timer. been reading good and bad things about it online. some people comment that it's fun, but that they have organizational deficiencies? other options i've been thinking about include the race in erie, pa that's held out on presque isle, the cape cod, and maybe something out west if i can possibly coordinate cheap airfare.

the point about overtraining is worth noting, as is the mention of the importance of stretching. after a rough day at work last week, i went out and did prolly 14-15 miles fueled by aggressive music on the mp3 player and hatred for my lame coworkers. my legs are still a bit roughed up...

the usual routine is more along the lines of 4-5 miles four times a week and then one longer run that's maybe 90 or 120 minutes long. most of the time my runs are measured in time duration instead of length- and i just estimate how far i've gone. we've got some decent topography around pittsburgh (no, really) so i've been hitting the hills now and then as well. mr. bandito, i'd like to think i can do better than four hours- and will strive for something like 3:30- but will feel like i've done a decent job if i finish my first time around in under four hours.

werd, riggs. keep it running!!

another long distance run...anyone do the ridge run in bozeman? My brah tells me its a lot of fun, but then again he's a psycho. 20 miles, 5000ft of climbing, 7000 of descending, and a pretty rocky trail. I'd love to do it If I could get out there in august.

Sounds like you're on the right track. I trained my Dad to run a sub 4 hour race after a 20 year layoff of marathon running. He finished the Lowell Marathon in 3:55 or so at age 53. I would avoid the Marine Core for your first marathon unless you feel that you can reel off those 9 or 10 minute miles in your sleep. A race like Lowell (which is actually pretty nice), Houston, Chicago and the like that are really flat will serve you better. If you want a tougher course I'd go with NY or Boston just for the crowds that really help you get through the tough points in the race. For a real destination race try Honolulu in December...

I also ran around 10 miles of the race with my Pops so that he wouldn't get bored or zone out. Find running buddies and get them to help you out on race day. Even if they aren't into covering 26 miles, they could definitely help you out at mile 20 and help take you across the finish in a much better time than you thought you could achieve.

Try to run on the soft stuff (grass, dirt trails, even blacktop) as much as possible over pavement. Pavement has 0 give and will destroy your legs over time. Also you sound like you might want to start adding some hill repeats and/or timed 800s just to work on your speed.

The most I've ever run in a race is the half (1:35 - not too shabby), but I think if you already ran 1:48 than what you're doing so far is working. Just keep up the training, watch out for injuries, add a little speed work and you should be able to get from where you are to 3:35 on a flat course or sub 4 on a much harder course no problem...

my gf has run the philly marathon twice. it's normally in very early november. it has a really nice, low-key vibe, very little pushing and shoving, and a nice flat course so you can really shoot for your best time.

edit- and it's extremely easy to get in

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another long distance run...anyone do the ridge run in bozeman? My brah tells me its a lot of fun, but then again he's a psycho. 20 miles, 5000ft of climbing, 7000 of descending, and a pretty rocky trail. I'd love to do it If I could get out there in august.

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I ran that with a friend in '92. Didn't do the organized event though. Great run, super fun, scenic, not too hard.

Another good one we did last year is the Grand Canyon double crossing. South rim to North rim and back. 48 miles and 20,000+ feet of elevation change.

Acostiga: When you are done with your road races, go do some off road races. They are tons of fun, and usually less impact on the body. Who knows, you might be running the Leadville 100 some day. :) Good luck.

While we're on the topic of running.

I ran a few times a couple weeks ago. Nothing major, maybe 30 minutes or so each time. I felt fine during the run, but afterwards my right knee was really stiff, and I can still feel it sometimes now. Basically that's why these runs were a couple weeks ago. I don't really want to run again and make it worse. Any idea what the problem is? It isn't so much severe pain, though there is some. The major sympton was stiffness on both sides of the knee. Especially after sitting for a couple hours.

At first I thought maybe it was an ITB problem, but that should only cause pain on the outside, right? I don't recall any kind of grinding or swelling. And, again, I only felt pain starting the day after running. Everything was fine during the runs.

And sorry, I don't intend to highjack the thread!

AD, does stretching help at all? Tight leg muscles can cause pain in or around the knees. Does it especially hurt if you climb stairs?

You're correct, a fussy ITB would cause pain on the outside only.

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Originally posted by Viva
AD, does stretching help at all? Tight leg muscles can cause pain in or around the knees. Does it especially hurt if you climb stairs?

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Not sure if stretching helps since I haven't really done any running since.

I did a hike of about eight miles on Saturday and didn't notice any pain. Also haven't noticed anything in particular climbing stairs.

If I bend my knee up to my butt I still feel tenderness on the inside. From a quick glance at some knee anatomy on the web I'm guessing it's an injury to the meniscus or MCL.

Were you not running before those runs a couple of weeks ago? It kinda sounds like you're just not used to running and that muscle tightness or novel joint trama is the root of your discomfort. I say try running again. Stretch the next day; I bet your muscles will be pretty tight. In my running history, many times minor knee pain was due to either tight or injured hammys or shoes wearing out....how old are your shoes? If new or fairly new, are they a brand/model you've never tried before? How's about the running surface? Concrete, grass???

Yes, that's the first time I've ran in a long time. The shoes I wore are not new, but they should have some life to them. I've used them before without any problems. In general I'm not very flexible, so your diagnosis could be correct. My primary exercise is swimming, so my knees don't typically get much stress put on them.

So I think I'll follow your advice and give 'er another shot. But if I blow out my knee I'm holding you responsible, Viva! Just kidding.

My wife runs about 40-70 miles a week with work outs and distance runs included for training about 4 months before. She has been competing since high school. She ran a 2:59 at NYC marathon last nov. She is as addicted to running as I am to mt. biking / skiing / fly fishing. It's awsome to watch her set goals and achieve them. Just last weekend she won the sunburst half marathon in South Bend, IN. They also had a full Marathon, it was a flat course according to her, may be worth looking into. At any rate good luck with the running it can be very rewarding.

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Originally posted by Trackhead

When you are done with your road races, go do some off road races. They are tons of fun, and usually less impact on the body. Who knows, you might be running the Leadville 100 some day. :)

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After running the St. George Marathon I said to heck with the road, I'm hitting the trails. Since then I've run the Pikes Peak twice. Trail running is king.

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Another good one we did last year is the Grand Canyon double crossing. South rim to North rim and back. 48 miles and 20,000+ feet of elevation change.

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My buddy does this one just about each year. It's on my list for sure, but not this year. I'm just training for skiing, not for any big races this summer.

You know Trackhead, the more I see your posts, the more I dig your style.

Big A -

Here's a link to a "TR" from my a marathon I ran this past December. My report is buried somewhere in the middle. Beware of the purple fish.....

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...light=marathon

Go for it and good luck mang!! Maybe Rolling Rock can sponsor you? ;)

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Originally posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
Maybe Rolling Rock can sponsor you? ;)

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not rolling rock! i can picture my iron city beer tv commerical now: yinz know dat yinz can't break no still. only fewel in dis tank issa ihrn city, iss rilly low in carbs n'at. hows about one ferda thumb yinz guys? yoi and double yoi!

thanks for the kind words, mr. shoelaces. methinks the purple fish and i have become acquainted during some of the longer, less interesting training runs. my finishing of the race will be a substantial victory for the 200+ pounds crowd.