Maggots: Have you taken a WILDERNESS FIRST RESPONDER course? Beta needed....

i'm preparing to take my WFR course next month, 9 days of intensive classroom and field work.....

i'm interested in hearing about your experiences and opinions regarding the course.....

i have a 40 hr ETT certification (re-certing tonight), and a good bit of real-life experience, but i know this is an INTENSE class, and i want to be as prepared as possible before it starts....

this is not a NOLS course, but this orginazation has been teaching it in AK for a number of years....(deb ajango is the instructor), and the cert is a Wilderness Medical Associates WFR certification....the guidebook is Wilderness and Rescue Medicine:a practical guide for the basic and advanced practitioner

if you have anything to offer up, recommend, advise, etc, i'd like to hear it,

and YES, i'm going to use the search function as well:p

thanks in advance!

youknee

i took my wfr a few years ago from kelly turner in bellingham. it was amazing. adding to the fact that he taught with a lot of naturopathic background, i learned more about first aid than any oec or other type of outdoor medicine class. my advice for the class would be to take tons of notes and pay attention. also, stay cool when doing fake rescues and such. it's amazing how many people don't have the ice in their veins when shit hits the fan.

Deb is an incredible instructor. She is probably one of the best people that you could learn from. She has edited and written two great books, Lessons Learned and Lessons Learned II. She was the program director at a University when a major tragedy happened on a mountaineering course.

The best advice I have is to go into the course ready to work hard, take notes, study and learn from your peers. It is a very hands on class that offers a lecture, then allows you to practice the skill with a scenerio.

Study hard the first two days as it is the foundation for the rest of the class.

To ease your mind, it will be only an 8 day class. One of the days will be a rest day to let the information sink in. You'll need it. I took the course in Northern Wisconsin at Camp Manito-wish and my wife took in at MSU in Bozeman. Both through WMA. Loved it and learned a lot.

A friend of mines sister just did the NOLS. I'll see if I can't get some info before you head out.

Jay

Sounds like you are already well prepared.

My WFR was one of the best educational experiences of my life. It is a great curriculum.

As you noted, it is intense and I think it is impossible to really absorb all the info during the course. If you find this occurring don't sweat it and don't get frustrated. What you can remember is great info and more than most folks have.

Enjoy it.

I would just step up and take your emt, i did my wofer and it was good but ended up taking my emt and it just seemed that a lot of the emt stuff was covered in the wofer.
YOu do learn some interesting rescue procedures in the wofer but it just seemed like a lot of repeat info.
Plus the emt class is twice as many hours (i think)

The more you put into it, the more you will get out of it. Meaning if you volunteer for scenarios and are hands-on versus hanging back and observing, you will retain more.

The important thing is to practice what you learn, particularly the basic things like traction / splinting, clearing an airway, etc. We did some esoteric scenarios (guy eviscerated by his ice axe on a fall, etc) that were generally a waste of time. Focus on the core "field basics" and repeat them with your friends or signifcant other when the class is over.

ETT??? Who still teaches and certifies ETT?

WFR is a great course. It ought to be about 80hrs. I wish all my BC partners had a WFR cert.

I did my WFR through WMA back when I needed the cert. It was pretty exhausting. It was also great, and I got a lot more out of it than out of my EMT class. It's not like you've got an ambulance of gear with you in the mountains.

Also, like Joestrummer said, participate during the class and practice outside it.

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Originally Posted by youkneebonger

i'm preparing to take my WFR course next month, 9 days of intensive classroom and field work.....

i'm interested in hearing about your experiences and opinions regarding the course.....

i have a 40 hr ETT certification (re-certing tonight), and a good bit of real-life experience, but i know this is an INTENSE class, and i want to be as prepared as possible before it starts....

this is not a NOLS course, but this orginazation has been teaching it in AK for a number of years....(deb ajango is the instructor), and the cert is a Wilderness Medical Associates WFR certification....the guidebook is Wilderness and Rescue Medicine:a practical guide for the basic and advanced practitioner

if you have anything to offer up, recommend, advise, etc, i'd like to hear it,

and YES, i'm going to use the search function as well:p

thanks in advance!

youknee

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First, you are very lucky to have Deb as your instructor! She is amaziing and you are going to be given some great instruction!

WFR is a good, solid course that will put you on a much better level to handle back country situations. WFR pretty much is still a "stabilize and evac" training, but you gain some valuable skills just a shade above the stabilize/evac level.

The nice thing about Deb is that she does place a high emphasis on simulations and scenarios and you will get to do a LOT of field imporvisations. A couple things on the sims, think BIG. Think about method of injury A LOT. Take care to secure the scene. Think SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY and not just for the victim. She will get you on the scene secure. You reallly become a backcountry detective as well as medic, so keep that in mind.

Have a great time. Learn lots! Out of curiosity, are you doing it through the Alaska Mountaineering School?

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Originally Posted by skideeppow

I would just step up and take your emt, i did my wofer and it was good but ended up taking my emt and it just seemed that a lot of the emt stuff was covered in the wofer.
YOu do learn some interesting rescue procedures in the wofer but it just seemed like a lot of repeat info.
Plus the emt class is twice as many hours (i think)

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Agreed, but for most people they aren't going to be able to do the needed ambulance hours to keep the EMT current. For us in Alaska, we have to do a minimum of 40hours of Ambulance Crew hours a year to keep the certification valid. For many this isn't a real option, so WFR becomes a great back-up.

My cousin took it and along with his EMT cert became a Wilderness EMT. He reccomended I take one as well. He said that along with the large amount of knowlage they also teach some cool stuff like how to make a traction split out of a a stick and some string or something like that.

Have fun. Im taking mine next year.

Good on you for taking this course, you will get out of it what you put into it.

Take lots of notes and participate in everything you can, I remember some folks in my courses that sat back most of the time and I can guarantee they didn't get that much out of it.

Once you are done, sit back and think about the activities you participate in and then think about worst case scenarios and the standard gear you carry. Evaluate if you can handle the situation as you are equipped, if not then modify your equipment.

It is amazing what you can accomplish with the right training, mindset and gear you carry with you in the back country.

I wish more people would take these courses there is so much emphasis on avy courses (rightly so) but you don't hear many people talk about these. Once you dig out your buddy they are generally f-ed up and that is when your training will really kick in.

Good luck and have fun.

thanks to all of you for your responses and positive feedback!
it's great to hear the very positive input regarding the instructor as well.....
the ETT cert was a pre -req for continuing on to EMT1 (through our volunteer fire dept/ ems), but i am far from any urban settings, and spend a good deal of time in the backcountry through out the year , so i was really more interested in WFR as a practical matter.....our instructor (also is our EMS director) recently won paramedic of the year for the entire USA, so she has been great for training/info...i am considering EMT mainly becouse our VFD needs EMTs to keep our EMS program certified by the state, and thats important to small communities....

again, thanks for the input and welcome to more!

ykb

These are all great suggestions that have been posted already. Listen to them!!

My biggest advice would be to not be overwhelmed. You're going to have A LOT of info thrown at you in a short amount of time. Just sit back, stay calm, take good notes, and try to absorb as much as possible. You won't remember it all two months after, so try to distinguish the important, overarching themes and ideas from the specific, sometimes esoteric facts.

And when you're in a scenerio, just like Douglas Adams says, Don't Panic!!! Even when your testing and its your instructor who is the victim, just stay calm and you'll do much better. I saw plenty of smart people who knew their shit, but would fold when touching an actual body. The adrenalin can start to flow (even in a scenerio!!), you forget to breath, and then you forget your teachings. Just stay calm, go through the basics EVERYTIME, and you'll do fine!

The WFR is a fantastic class that really changed the way I look at the backcountry. It inspired me to get my WEMT, which is how I'll be spending August. 180 hours, here we go!!!!

I got my WEMT a few years ago. It was a great class, includes WFR and EMT into one class. I did it in one month while still working full time at a bar for most of it. It was tough and kinda an excellerated class but it worked out. The first half of the class was book learning then the second half was 10 day in the backcountry camping. Really helps you buckle down and study hard when you have nothing else left to do.

I don't know what state you are in but there are a lot of these type classes in Colorado.

I'm in the same boat, Jan 18th is my D-day. I can't wait!

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Originally Posted by Zeedashbo

...also, stay cool when doing fake rescues and such. it's amazing how many people don't have the ice in their veins when shit hits the fan.

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I just wanted to emphasize this, as my experiences with rescues in the backcountry have left me less than impressed with WFR-certified folks (imagine 2 WFRs completely flipping out, the first apparently learned little more in her course than "it's very important to make sure the rescuers stay safe"--we were on flat ground, the victim was 30ft up hanging off one hex-- the other WFR took his partner off belay :eek: ). Unfortunately I don't think any training other than experience can teach you to keep a cool head in the first minutes after a bad accident

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Originally Posted by maniloff

I did my WFR through WMA back when I needed the cert. It was pretty exhausting. It was also great, and I got a lot more out of it than out of my EMT class. It's not like you've got an ambulance of gear with you in the mountains.

Also, like Joestrummer said, participate during the class and practice outside it.

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I have to agree. I've taken a couple of EMT courses and just recently took the WFR. In my opinion the WFR is more useful to people like us who are out in the wilderness quite often. I enjoyed all of the improvisational gear, like making a C-collar out of an upside-down backpack.
As others have said, be prepared for the intensity of the course. I felt like I was cramming an entire semester of EMT into a week and a half. I think I'll take a WEMT course next. I have no intention of working on an ambulance or even living in an urban environment.
Enjoy your studies.

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Originally Posted by khakis

I just wanted to emphasize this, as my experiences with rescues in the backcountry have left me less than impressed with WFR-certified folks (imagine 2 WFRs completely flipping out, the first apparently learned little more in her course than "it's very important to make sure the rescuers stay safe"--we were on flat ground, the victim was 30ft up hanging off one hex-- the other WFR took his partner off belay :eek: ). Unfortunately I don't think any training other than experience can teach you to keep a cool head in the first minutes after a bad accident

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Experience in the medical field is everything. It doesn't matter the training you have had. There is nothing like being in a really stressful situation and you can't teach that regardless.

WFR should be essential if traveling in the backcountry. I came upon a guy this last summer in New Zealand with a broken back. The training instantly came back to me. I was more than happy to had spent that money. Make yourself get involved because that is how you will learn the most. Enjoy the practicals and take them very seriously. If they are done well your adrenalin will be pumping and it will come to you.

REMEMBER YOUR ABC's

My wife and I took a WFR course at SOLO in Conway NH last summer. I felt like a funnel was installed into my brain and information poured in as fast as it would go.

The first half of the course seemed overwhelming, but after walking us through all the scenarios where the victim is going to die no matter what we do, the course then narrowed to focus with the situations where we should be able to make a difference.

As others have said, pay attention and try to get as much out of it as you can. It was intense, a bit scary, but also very gratifying.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

I got my WEMT a few years ago. It was a great class, includes WFR and EMT into one class. I did it in one month while still working full time at a bar for most of it. It was tough and kinda an excellerated class but it worked out. The first half of the class was book learning then the second half was 10 day in the backcountry camping. Really helps you buckle down and study hard when you have nothing else left to do.

I don't know what state you are in but there are a lot of these type classes in Colorado.

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This sounds like the same format as the one I'm shooting for. 2 weeks of classroom work, then 10 days out. Gonna be through Desert Mountain Medicine in Leadville. With whom did you take yours?

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Originally Posted by powder_prophet

This sounds like the same format as the one I'm shooting for. 2 weeks of classroom work, then 10 days out. Gonna be through Desert Mountain Medicine in Leadville. With whom did you take yours?

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Yep, that's it. I took mine in breck at the CMC there. Teachers were Nadia Kimmel and Karen something. Good class, a little more focus on the outdoors part would have been cool. We ended up camping up rock creek rd a few miles in the gore. Good learning experience, wish I still remembered more of it.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Yep, that's it. I took mine in breck at the CMC there. Teachers were Nadia Kimmel and Karen something. Good class, a little more focus on the outdoors part would have been cool. We ended up camping up rock creek rd a few miles in the gore. Good learning experience, wish I still remembered more of it.

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That's always the rub. memory retention. With classes like these studies have found there is about a six month "shelf life" to the info gained during the course, unless you practice running sims and scenarios every now and again.

Same hold true for other rescue courses. My Swiftwater and Whitewater Rescue Certs are good for two years, but I take the refresher each year. And I try to make sure to go out each spring and run scenarios with other guides and rescuers to keep the skills sharp. Same with ropes rescue etc...it is a commitment, but well worth it in the end.

Like they say, "You know what's funny about safety? Nothing."

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Originally Posted by powder_prophet

This sounds like the same format as the one I'm shooting for. 2 weeks of classroom work, then 10 days out. Gonna be through Desert Mountain Medicine in Leadville. With whom did you take yours?

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Yep, that's it. I took mine in breck at the CMC there. Teachers were Nadia Kimmel

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Nadia Kimmel taught my WEMT years ago.

The DMM compact format (ours was 5 weeks)... If you intend to do the compact format, make sure that is how you learn. Make sure you continue to study and practice your skills after the course or they will leave you even faster than an extended course. It depends on the person. I learn well in that compressed format.

Their WEMT course was AWESOME *except* if you intend to use it on an ambulance. There was almost no emphasis on practical aspects of urban operations.

Sign up for as many clinicals as you possibly can, and with the busiest services you can sign off for even if it means going to Denver. Don't just do the minimum.

Definitely go work at denver general! I got to do some shit down there that would I would never have gotten the chance to do if I had gone to the summit ER.

I second everything else that summit said too. Camping really makes you focus on learning the info because you have nothing else to do but study and swat mosquitos.

I liked the compressed format a lot but like summit said, if you aren't using it you will lose it faster than if you learn it over a long period.

Summit, where did you guys do the camping portion?

The current CMC Breck EMS program is very good.

Shredgnar, We didn't go anywhere exciting... just the middle fork of the swan. Our final scenario was awesome though. They got us all up at night and said "a plane has crashed on that ridge" gesturing over at a ridge a mile away. "Patients unknown. Here is your equipment. Rendevous with RP at X. That's all. Go now." We assembled and went out, met the RP who said "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK" and died without telling us how to get to the crash site. It got better from there (4pts 2 carryouts, they all spoke only Ukranian) it was very fun.

^^^Sounds insane!!! Nadia did my WFR as well, and we did a similar night scenerio. Obviously not spur of the moment, middle of the night, but still exciting. Lake County SAR showed up and treated it as a full-on training as well. Like yours, simulated plane crash, patients unknown. My patient was fairly straight forward treatment-wise (L ankle fracture, open R femur fracture), just lots of screaming, bleeding, spitting, and vomitting, oh my!!!

Thanks for the tips guys!!! I think I can handle the compact format. I seem to pick shit up pretty well with that style. I helped Nadia with her EMT-B final in Dec, and I realized that I still knew my shit better then the kids nervously trying to pass the test after a semester of EMT-B training!! I can handle the all-day, everyday thing because I'm interestred enough in the topic and really want to do it. If it was extended, I think I would get distracted and worry about other things. Can't wait to do the bc outing. I know last summer she took her group into the Collegiate's, but I'm gonna try talking her into something a little more obsure. Zierkel's maybe?

CMC in Breck offers the WEMT upgrade as well if you already have your EMT. Good stuff. My buddies teach that.

...so what would you guys recommend for someone with little previous medical training...other than CPR/First Aid?? Is there a WFR course or similar geared at the intro level??

This stuff has always interested me...but since my occupation never led me down that road, I've always wondered the best way to get started.

^WFR will take you from nothing to WFR. :)

There is no prereq. WFR is *the* course to take unless you are planning on vocational use.

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Originally Posted by Summit

^WFR will take you from nothing to WFR. :)

There is no prereq. WFR is *the* course to take unless you are planning on vocational use.

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nice. thanks Summit.

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Originally Posted by GoldenBear

WFR should be essential if traveling in the backcountry. I came upon a guy this last summer in New Zealand with a broken back. The training instantly came back to me. I was more than happy to had spent that money. Make yourself get involved because that is how you will learn the most. Enjoy the practicals and take them very seriously. If they are done well your adrenalin will be pumping and it will come to you.

REMEMBER YOUR ABC's

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Golden Bear - so what happened with the NZ guy with the broken back? First Aid is all about - don't move the victim. My EMT class was all about - stabilize the victim and transport via ambulance.

This is why WFR is high on my list of education- did you create a backboard and hike him out? Did you stabilize him and run for help? Did you summons a helicopter? How far away were you from help?

2/14 update~
half way through.....

This class is most excellent! Very intense, but not overwhelming. The material is very interesting and will hold your attention. The scenarios are very realistic and challenge you mentally and physicaly, with lots of things designed to throw you off .

Deb is a FANTASTIC teacher and presents all the information in a way that makes it really easy to take in.

There is a wide range of diverse people in the course, some young , some older, one guy has skied 115mph .

I would STRONGLY recomend this class or its equivalant to any of you maggots that venture out into the backcountry at any time of year. You will never regret the skils and confidence you will gain and it will highten your ability to assess risk.
It also makes you see just how lucky most of us have been at one time or another with near misses, accidents in the backcountry.

The material is real world applications and is not watered down with legal mumbo like urban emt material, so it has been very insightful over my ETT cert. I think i am going to try to finish my ETT to EMT1 bridge course asap, though, as the WFR is very similar to EMT1 ,and I could nail it while it is all still fresh.



Now hopefully i'll pass! heh

ski safe

YKB