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Shop grabbed the wrong boot for the jig when drilling my skis, wondering how close I could have the toepiece holes redrilled? Maybe one hole diameter of material between holes?
The shop guy is cool so I'm not going to make a stink about wanting new skis. There's enough travel in the heel to make up for it if need be, but it affects the mounting position a little. (If I move back the toe some it'll get me a more desireable position.)
That should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
What ski? If it's a burly ski with layers of metal that might be fine, but if its a soft foam core type you'd probably want to space it out a bit more.
Try skiing on them. You are probably only 0.5cm of forward of where you wanted. If you don't like it, you can have a better idea if you want to mount them that .5 back where they should be or maybe more.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
You've got ESP, right on it. Last year's K2 Silencer, so not burly. Maybe I'll go ahead and try skiing 'em first, these are cheapish skis for early/shallow powder so I figured better I little too far back than too far forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtybryan
How close? should be fine to drill right on the exact hole point, that's as close as you'll get......
:D
Never had a problem with the hole-width spacing on any ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatdown
I would think plastic plugs in the old holes would support the fiberglass/wood between the holes and pretty much prevent any elongation of the new holes, especially if there's at least 4mm of material between the holes. (think I'll go 6mm of material if I redrill, just to be safe) Thanks for the advice guys.
Rule of thumb is at least 10mm from hole center to hole center.
Excellent, that's what my 6mm between holes works out to.Quote:
Originally Posted by hemas
if you have twin tips you can easily mount them backwards (toepice pointing towards tail) and should not have any hole conflict, probably a safer bet than edit-6mm spacing.
I've got some of my screw holes right next to each other(no not my gf's) on 2 pr of skis. No problems.
I use 4x6mm set screws w/ a dab of super glue in old hole plugs. Works beauty.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard all week. Twin tip skis aren't symmetrical from tip to tail!Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer
Agreed, though I figured he was kidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW Skier
I laughed. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
Bump! This is some great info. Do you think the plastic plugs would work better than epoxy?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
When you say right next to each other... like literally? 1 mm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Schralper
Not exactly the biggest sample size, but it's at least some real world data:
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_...lled-skis.html
They concluded 7 mm center-to-center, which is only about 3 mm material between holes. The old rule of thumb of 1 cm center-to-center seems more than enough.
I would think this depends heavily on the build of the ski. I imagine a couple layers of metal go a long way in preventing pull out.
Overlapping!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ride_a_Yeti
But I've done this only with Hagan race skis (two pairs, lots of use this past season), which have a crazy drill bit-dulling mounting plate.
(I know, such a light ski, yet such a strong binding retention plate -- then again, maybe that's the only way they can get the screws to stay in.)
Filled the old holes with JB Weld, then drilled the new holes, overlapping with the JB Weld.
I'd never try this though with any random ski.
Plus have to be sure that the old holes are "bridged" by the binding base plate, as opposed to hanging out there to the rear of the heel unit, ready to act as a fulcrum to snap the ski in half.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schralper
You can purchase hardwood pegs, instead of those plastic pegs to fill the old holes, and the wood pegs are "suppose" to have more strength. The hardwood pegs are specifically made to fill holes that are close, or even overlapping old mount holes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ride_a_Yeti
http://www.slidewright.com/hardwood-hole-plugs-20pk.php
Well that's just ridiculous. I can't hardly believe it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
Good info, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by barkcity
Here's what I discovered tonight - I have existing holes of 36mm wide (I think they were Barons) and my new bindings are 38mm wide (Kingpins). And completely different lengths - so on my toe piece I would put the front two screws into the pre existing holes at a weird angle or something and the back two screws into new holes (10mm away from old holes). And the rear bindings would go into all fresh holes. Bad idea to do those two screws into the slightly off holes? These are on Nordica Hell and Back.
Awww yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsupdoc
Sounds pretty fucked to me or something to put screws in cockeyed and i wouldn't count on wooden pegsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ride_a_Yeti
Can't you move the mount 1cm or so to avoid conflicts?
If there's no way to get around holes right next to each other, get some #12AB aluminum screws (which have almost the exact same thread as ski binding screws) and epoxy them into the old holes. Cut them off and grind flush with the ski after the epoxy sets.
Drill & tap your new pattern. Bomber. The aluminum screws won't restore the core strength, but they won't contribute to pull-out of the new screws like slippery plastic plugs might. I haven't drilled an overlapping pattern into the alum screws, but I wouldn't be surprised if it held fine.
And the overlapping holes were with a tightly clustered three-hole pattern:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ride_a_Yeti
http://skimo.co/dynafit-low-tech-race-bindings
More fun along the same theme:
http://slc-samurai.blogspot.com/2014...se-is-too.html
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cq...Q=w399-h709-no
Well, I am running out of real estate, so I just went pretty close. I think less than mm on 2 holes. Right next to JB weld filled holes on a metal topsheet.
I think 1 of thos skis is up to 6 mounts.
Yeah this not something to worry about. Fill the holes with plugs & epoxy, let dry, than mount as you wish. If some are half-overlapping or whatever it doesn't matter (although I guess I wouldn't want the same mount pattern 1-3 mm off where they are all overlapping, but why would you do that)
or you could just elongate the holes in the kingpins with a chainsaw fileQuote:
Originally Posted by Ride_a_Yeti
Plug the old holes and use helicoils or inserts were there is overlap with the new holes. Then your boot will be in the correct position. Simple.
I've had good luck with this method. I plugged them with hardwood dowels first.Quote:
Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs
If you tap and drill with a guide/drill press, you can insert skis when you want new holes only 1-3mm away (center to center) from old ones, essentilly shifting the old holes over a few mm.
Plug old holes with wood and/or epoxy and drill new holes. If the new holes produce spinner then use helicoils. Really if you use good epoxy and wood you shouldn't need the heli coil. I've done this many times. People worry too much about overlap.Quote:
Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs
Agreed. Forgot to mention, use wood plugs instead of plastic. And use epoxy instead of binding glue when you do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronWright
People DO worry too much about binding screw hole proximity! It's almost funny to watch rookie ski techs moving mounting positions all over the ski in an effort to maintain a certain (contrived) distance (6mm? 7mm? 10mm?) from old screw holes. Don't believe this urban myth!
XXX-er, thanks. It seems like a really bad idea, I agree. To go outside of the existing 2 sets of holes (this will be the third set - time for new skis?) I'd have to get 2cm front or back of factory line. And I can't decide to go front or back!
Perfect. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
Good advice: basically rebuilding the core. Use good hardwood plugs and good long-set epoxy, and let it cure before drilling.Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronWright
Model boat building supply websites have 4mm hardwood dowel if you want to cut your own tight-fitting plugs (I use a Dremel with a cutoff wheel). It is kind of time consuming though.
It'd be easy and quick with a lathe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ride_a_Yeti
IMO once you cut the fibres in a core you have lost the strength of the continuity in that material SO I don't think elongating holes in a core is the best thing and so while wood plugs give you material to screw into I don't think a wood plug will restore that strength of continuity
I have used FG & 24hr epoxy to fix spinners with 100% success SO I would probably cram the holes with chopped FG strands & 24 hr epoxy making sure to not overly wet the FG strands and drilling that would work as well or > a wood plug IMO
While its probably gona be OK I have seen a guy break a ski in two due to elongated holes, once back in the day it was a 280lb crazy man on some foam core kniessel redstar slalom skis where buddy had put shims under the binding and elongated the wholes in the process, he was bashing black dioamond moguls with zero finesse for like a perfect storm of shitting on a ski, I folded the ski in half and put it over my shoulder to carry it down for buddy
I should point out at this time I was just being absurd suggesting that anyone should use a chainsaw file to elongate the holes in a new binding ... it might fuck up the chainsaw file eh
That's what I wanted to do! There's almost no metal around those holes on the Kingpins (front piece) so not sure on that one. Maybe if I add a washer or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er