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DESCRIPTION: A bold skier descends next to an avalanche that occurred in the West Bowl of Silver Fork, Big Cottonwood Canyon. The avalanche probably occurred on 12-9-04, the day before the photo was taken.
http://www.avalanche.org/%7Euac/phot...0avalanche.jpg
Looks liek a big slide.
So RB what is the forecast for Mini?
the slide in little cloud/road to provo was something
Hey skier in the Photo:
can you say DUMBASS!
Fracture line has stopped as it reaches anchors, which sort of indicates a well anchored area, and no doubt the skier has more experienced than you...Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey
edg
Take notes on where the av zone is.
Valuable info.
What do you mean by this? I am an avalanch jong.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleAl
From what I can tell, the avy zone is below a cornice and on a concave slope of moderate pitch, with either a southeast or northwest exposure. What other info is imortant that can be viewed in the photo? What above that I mentioned is significant?
You guys talk about avalanch safety all the time, but I have seen very little detailed info discused about what to look for and what exactly to avoid. Maybe you could share some of your expertise with an eastern idiot that will someday need to know this stuff.
He at least chose a decent line near the trees on a ridge. Trees offer some safety and won't grow in slide paths. They also act as anchors in the snow. The skiers line may also have a lower slope angle, but thats hard to tell from the photo.
Still I think that skier isn't all that smart considering the activity around here lately. Heard on the news last night a snowmobiler got himself buried up in Davis County. He was buried for 20 minutes and came out alive with only a few scratches and a broken rib.
The angle IS considerably less (maybe 34 degrees) where the tracks are than where the slide is. He was smart enough to avoid the rollover to skier's right at the top. Not a dumbass.
He's lucky.
Rules: Same aspect, same elevation, same danger. He is on the same elevation, nearly the same aspect, and nearly the same angle.
Trees: They don't mean a damn thing. Look what happened with the close to home tragedy two days ago!! Where do you think the slide went? Right into the trees. This person has a HUGE amount of snow above them that could rip. Big trees don't always get taken out, so their growth means nothing. Look at the trees in the slide path, standing.
He's hitting this line on a high danger day, end of story.
I think AKPM hit it on the head with his statement, considering Bruce Tremper (the Utah god of snowpack analysis) said this about the photo in question.
"DESCRIPTION: A bold skier descends next to an avalanche that occurred in the West Bowl of Silver Fork, Big Cottonwood Canyon. The avalanche probably occurred on 12-9-04, the day before the photo was taken."
Let's look at what trees mean for safety.
Slide through trees
http://www.avalanche.org/%7Euac/Advi...images/far.jpg
Slide not knocking down mature trees
http://www.avalanche.org/%7Euac/Advi...ages/trees.jpg
In small pockets
http://www.avalanche.org/%7Euac/phot...9800-slide.jpg
Please don't think a small group of trees will change the situation. It just makes it worse if you do get caught.
Slednecks testing darwin yesterday in my neck of the woods.
Duhhh.....let's all hang out in a close group on an avy runout zone.
http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/BRAIC/...ds12-11-04.jpg
Let's highpoint a bowl that slid earlier and deposits into a huge terrain trap, where I can get buried 30ft under.
http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/BRAIC/...s-12-11-04.jpg
One more thing, this is a quote pulled from todays avie forecast for the Uintas. Craig Gordon says.........
If the same kinds of slopes we want to ride on are avalanching- same slope angle, aspect, and elevation- then it’s time to rethink where we’re headed. It amazed me yesterday to watch so many riders totally disregard nature’s biggest clue. Come on…it’s a freebie!
Once again, AKPM hits the nail on the head.
I hope this thread can be educational in light of the last two avy deaths in Utah in the last two days. In the last three days, four burials have happened, two died.
Thinking trees, lower angles, etc. are going to make it safe is sadly ignorant.
All right, I'm off my soap box, sorry. It's just that this last avy fatality has really nailed me in the gut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Please, stay on the soap box...it's needed.
Quote:
On Friday night, an Avalanche near Grizzly Gulch claimed the life of 22-year-old Zachary Eastman of Salt Lake County. Eastman was trapped under 2 to 3 feet of snow for about five minutes after triggering the avalanche while skiing across a backcountry slope.
The Forest Service Utah Avalanche Center had issued an avalanche warning for the northern Utah mountains and extreme southeast Idaho earlier Friday. That warning was downgraded from "high" on Friday to "considerable" Saturday.
"There were only a few avalanches Saturday, but they were triggered by people and they were very large,"
5 minutes under...his partner did everything right after it slid. He had no chance.
Here
Noted large cornices and previous fracture line still visible, hell, runout and avie debris still visible. Quite large area too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
STAY OUT is what my brain would say.
First, you are asking, so I do not consider you an Av JONG.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaSucks
All I meant was that an avalanche prone area is something to note. If it goes in a certain area, like the one in the photo, then it is likely to go again. Consider your local resort. If they do av control, they more than likely hit the same spots after each storm. So, an av zone is something to note.
"The importance of local knowledge cannot be overstated."
p.143 of Tony Daffern's book.
Of course, there are many factors to consider. Which side the storm came from, what is the aspect (N, S, E, W face), how steep is it, snowfall history, etc. I am no pro, nor is anyone ever certain.
Want to learn more, read one of the two below, or both:
Avalanche Safety
for Skiers Climbers & Snowboarders
by Tony Daffern
Snow Sense
A guide to evaluating snow avalanche hazard
by Jill Fredston & Doug Fesler
And, take a course. Organize one if necessary (I did).
Suos Cultores Scientia Coronat.
Knowledge crowns those who seek it.
(from Syracuse University's seal)
As for the skier, smart or dumb, my guess is this:
Some dude/dudette got all the way out their favorite spot, looked at the slide, maybe even caused/controlled it (???), and figured it was much easier to take a different/safer path down, than hike up.
That's what I'd do, and I guess what most of us would do. Really, when was the last time anyone hiked uphill because they were scared of avalanche? I will concede (i.e. shut up) to anyone that claims they did.
I, for one appreciate the info. Thanks mang.
Simply stating that a guy is a dumbass for riding in a potential avy zone is about as helpful as a ski review saying a particular "model of skis suck".
Except, noone ever died from riding a pair of shitty skis.
An entire forum for avy awareness (like ttips) or at least a sticky thread might be a good idea.
Me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoni
Maybe a change of name from "Snow Conditions and Weather" to "Snow Conditons and Avie Awareness". Maybe only a name change would be easier for ONS.
Then the collective and put threads over there, move threads..... and we can all talk about what we see, what we know, what we do not know, what we want to know, available resources in the area, classes, what you would do in said situation (when a pic is dicussed and dumbass and lucky mofo terms come out, they are the ones we tend to discuss)................
I do like the idea.
Seems like the perfect place and keeps from clogging up the front page with too many fourms. Less work for ONS too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
If I were to see that kind of slide activity just a few turns away from my line, I would think about my wife and daughter and then back away slowly. When my regional avi danger gets high I ride in the resort until things stabalize. But, I guess we all have our own perspective on "risk"
QUESTION: On the original photo, and if there was no slide, where would be a good but safe spot to dig a pit?
I find picking a good spot for a pit challenging. Any other thoughts on this topic?
trees = broken bonesQuote:
Originally Posted by powderwhore
when your body is sent thrashing through trees in a slide your chance of survival goes way down. best bet is to hit the resort and live to ski another day.
Can I use that as my signature? Very well said!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
that picture hardly has any trees on that slope. one little stand of timber or 2 isn't gonna do shit. and to say that skiing low angle trees on a high avy danger day is a bad move is bullshit. sure, there are rollovers and open areas and such that can slide in a heavily treed area, but for the most part there will only be localized little slides and not a bigass ripper like the one in the pic. yeah, people still die and get caught in avys on low angled treed slopes too, but usually w/in 24 hours of a storm. i wouldn't classify that slope in the picture as being low angled or heavily treed and therefore, that skier is def playing w/ fire.
Well if that skier isn't a DUMBASS then I don't know what is. You think a 34 degee slope is safe on a day when the avy rating is HIGH? Give your head a shake! Look at the line that skier is taking, notice the small gully below curving right, How do you think that got there. Why is there a chute through those mature trees below him? BECAUSE IT IS AN AVALANCHE PATH!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Green
Probably if that guy took that line the day before, it would have let go on him.
The avy class I went to said that for you to take trees into consideration as a safety factor, they'd better be big and close enough together it's damn near unskiable. Otherwise, when they're just here and there and there's plenty of space between them, they're just something you're going to crash into when it slides.