Avalanche Airbag Canister Refills: The Who, What, Where, & How

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09-16-2010, 05:36 PM
SnowBigDeal

Avalanche Airbag Canister Refills: The Who, What, Where, & How

The canister refill process can be very confusing because each manufacturer has a different program. Because there are so many different programs, I figured I would put some information on the forum for all to hopefully gain from. Please note that each dealer may be different, but this is how we do it at SnowBigDeal.

The canister programs may change at any time. If they change, I will try and post updates

ABS:
Self-Refill:
The ABS canisters use compressed nitrogen and cannot be refilled on your own. A full canister (yellow in color) without the cap should weigh approximately 580grams; empty they weigh approximately 510grams.

Refill/Exchange through SnowBigDeal
You can mail or bring your empty canister (with cap) and trigger to SnowBigDeal and get a refilled canister and trigger for $29.99 (+ HazMat Fee if applicable). If you need the full canister(s) shipped back to you, there is a special HazMat fee of $35 per shipment (not per canister). Alaska’s HazMat fee is $70 and we cannot ship outside of the United States.

Test Canister:
A test canister may be ordered at the time of purchase for a $125 deposit. You will have 30 days to test fire the canister and return it for a full refund of the deposit. By performing the test fire and returning the empty canister with your pack information, you will receive a 4-year warranty with your pack.

New/Spare Canister:
A new or spare canister can be purchased at SnowBigDeal.com for $124.99, + a Hazmat charge of $35 ($70 HazMat charge to Alaska/Canada)

BCA:
Self-Refill:
BCA uses compressed air and has a gauge on the canister to see how full the canister is. The fill fitting on the canister is a standard paintball fitting and the canister needs to be filled to 2700 PSI (the slower it is filled the better). The O-ring on the canister should be inspected and replaced each time the canister is fired; each canister comes with an O-Ring kit.

Refill/Exchange through SnowBigDeal
You can mail your empty canister to SnowBigDeal and we will replace your O-Ring for free and ship the refilled canister to you. You will be responsible for paying all shipping charges to have the canister returned to you. The minimum HazMat fee will be $35 (or $70 to Alaska).

Test Canister:
A test canister may be ordered at the time of the airbag purchase for a $125 deposit. You will have 30 days to test fire the canister and return it for a full refund of the deposit.

New/Spare Canister:
A new or spare canister can be purchased at SnowBigDeal.com for $175 (or $125 at the time of the airbag purchase), + HazMat charge.

SnowPulse:
Self-Refill:
SnowPulse uses compressed air and has a gauge on the canister to see how full the canister is. The fill fitting on the canister is a standard paintball fitting and the canister needs to be filled to 3000 PSI (the slower it is filled the better). The O-ring on the canister should be inspected and replaced each time the canister is fired; an O-ring kit can be purchased at SnowBigDeal.com for $39.99 for a 10-pack or $54.99 for a 20-pack.

Refill/Exchange through SnowBigDeal.com:
You can mail your empty canister to SnowBigDeal and we will replace your O-Ring for a fee of $5 and ship the refilled canister to you. You will be responsible for paying all shipping charges to have the canister returned to you; the minimum charge will be $35 to cover the HazMat shipping charges. ($70 to Alaska)

Test Canister:
A test canister may be ordered at the time of the airbag purchase for a $250 deposit. You will have 30 days to test fire the canister and return it for a full refund of the deposit.

New/Spare Canister:
A new or spare canister can be purchased at SnowBigDeal.com for $250 (or $225 at the time of the airbag purchase), + HazMat fee.

Avi-Vest:
Self-Refill:
Avi-Vest canisters cannot be refilled on your own, you must mail them to us or to Avi-Vest to be refilled.

Refill/Exchange through Avi-Vest:
The customer orders the refill and Avi-Vest will ship the canister to the customer with a return UPS label. The customer receives the new canister in the shipping box, replaces it with their used one, attaches the return label, and ships it back to Avi-Vest.
US only, 1 canister: $60, which includes UPS ground shipping. (expedited shipping on a quote basis, adds $50 - $100 to the cost)

Canada, 1 canister: $90, which includes UPS ground shipping. (expedited shipping on a quote basis, adds $50 - $100 to the cost)

If multiple canisters need to be refilled, the incremental cost for each additional canister is significantly less than the $60/$90 charge. Contact Avi-Vest for more information.

Test Canister:
We do not have a test canister program at this time. Avi-Vest may come out with one in the future. You can always test the pack with the canister you have and send it in to Avi-Vest to be refilled.

New/Spare Canister:
A new or spare canister can be purchased through Avi-Vest for $150.

Hopefully all this information helps instead of confuses.
09-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Hacksaw

Thanks, that's good information.
09-18-2010, 11:55 AM
Core Shot

Can any of these be checked baggage for airline travel?

If not, there should be some kind of canister rental program in ski towns.
09-19-2010, 12:14 AM
DasBlunt

3,000PSI, anyone heard of a cannister bursting? That would be death from the back.

this was a totally random, paranoid thought while reading this.
09-19-2010, 11:26 AM
Hacksaw

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasBlunt

3,000PSI, anyone heard of a cannister bursting? That would be death from the back.

this was a totally random, paranoid thought while reading this.

No, I have never heard of one of them "blowing-up." But, I have heard in one case years and years ago, that the cannister slowly leaked while in summer strorage and when the person went to test their airbag at the begining of the season nothing happened when he pulled the trigger. D'oh!
10-04-2010, 11:25 PM
mtaylor

Cylinders like these are very safe. Your bag will not blow up on you if you don't do anything really really stupid to it.

(I work at a paintball field, and deal with compressed air on a daily basis.)
10-05-2010, 03:32 AM
CarveMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Can any of these be checked baggage for airline travel?

If not, there should be some kind of canister rental program in ski towns.

My wife and I bought ABS packs in Europe in January, we had no issues getting them back to Australia, nor getting them to NZ in July, but we did have issues getting them back from NZ.

The rental idea is a good one, because it could potentially be a PITA and I would hate to arrive at my destination without canister or handle & not enough time to organise a replacement.
10-05-2010, 11:10 AM
mtaylor

You can check an air tank as long as the regulator (or valve, whatever) is removed so the TSA guys can look into it.
11-15-2011, 12:03 AM
TheDon

Any locations or scuba shops in SLC that refill?
I am doing my test soon and will have to get a ref...
12-06-2011, 10:09 AM
SnowBigDeal

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

Any locations or scuba shops in SLC that refill?
I am doing my test soon and will have to get a ref...

SCUBA Utah does refills of the air canisters. If you need an ABS canister, then we can help you out if you want to drive to Mt. Pleasant UT, or you can contact us as we make a trip to the SLC area about every 10 days or so.
01-10-2012, 01:27 PM
Co-opski

If anyone is looking for a dive shop to fill canisters here in Alaska, because they can’t fly with full canisters and shipping is cylinder a pita with all the HAZMAT certifications. Dive Alaska on the old Seward was able to fill our BCA Float 36 and Blackjack.
10-28-2012, 01:49 PM
skipowpow

I just got my Wary AviPack re-filled at Rocky Mountain Diving Center (19th & Wadsworth in Denver) after I rearmed it using Wary's kit. EZPZ $6. They should be able to handle most user refillable canisters.
10-02-2013, 02:18 PM
cliffhucker

I know I'll take crap for this, but how hard would it be to get a dive shop to refill an ABS canister? Or simply discontinue using nitrogen and just use air?? Nitrogen can't make that big of a difference, and their system cant be so intricate that it can't be bypassed. There really needs to be some canister standardization...
10-02-2013, 02:58 PM
icelanticskier

^^^^hot air worx best. better yet, just go on low days and micro manage the terrain. or wait 72 hours or so. good to go!

rog
10-02-2013, 10:07 PM
_Aaron_

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffhucker

There really needs to be some canister standardization...

Canisters will be a thing of the past in 5 years. Say hello to batteries and fans.

That said, this is good information. Thanks for posting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using TGR Forums
10-03-2013, 10:58 AM
Hacksaw

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffhucker

.... Or simply discontinue using nitrogen and just use air?? Nitrogen can't make that big of a difference, and their system cant be so intricate that it can't be bypassed.

I think you'd violate the warranty on the system if you didn't follow the manufactures instructions. There is also a problem with using O2 vs. Nitrogen. At cold temps O2 will cause ice to form as the air rushes through the small size Ballon ports (i.e., clog them and keep the ballon from inflating). That's why they use Nitrogen to keep this from happening.
12-01-2013, 12:54 PM
Name Redacted

Bump
Anyone know of a place to get snowpulse canisters filled in or near summit county?
12-01-2013, 02:14 PM
Chugachjed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hacksaw

I think you'd violate the warranty on the system if you didn't follow the manufactures instructions. There is also a problem with using O2 vs. Nitrogen. At cold temps O2 will cause ice to form as the air rushes through the small size Ballon ports (i.e., clog them and keep the ballon from inflating). That's why they use Nitrogen to keep this from happening.

Nobody is filling with straight o2 if it's a dive shop you're probably getting 40-60% nitrogen and if it's not its straight air and you're getting ~80% nitrogen.
12-26-2013, 05:41 PM
cliffhucker

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Aaron_

Canisters will be a thing of the past in 5 years. Say hello to batteries and fans.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using TGR Forums

Batteries and fans don't seem very faith inspiring to me, first, batteries can't sit for an entire season and be relied on to have a full output. They WILL lose charge over time, a properly filled/sealed cylinder wont. Second, your battery WILL lose its ability to take a full charge over time, nothing you can do about this regardless of your treatment and care. So after say 3 seasons what is it actually capable of? After how many seasons do you buy a new battery, worth $500 or more??? Even at that are you going to re-charge your battery every week, daily? There are a lot of what ifs. What about the electrical system shorting out if/when it gets wet? Your pack has water, and is exposed to snowy wet conditions, are those connections waterproof? Last, that fan has to be clear. if it can't suck, it won't fill your bag. What are the odds something gets in the way or fouls the actual fan blades or the mechanism itself up? With regards to cold temps, BD claims their pack will get at least 1 full inflation in very cold temps, considering that a lot of us live in pretty cold places, the advantage of their multiple deploys per charge isn't exactly reality. Furthermore, if you have just been in a slide, at least for me, I'm not too concerned about going out and squeezing in another lap. There may be additional hazards on the way out, but with that battery, can you really be sure that you'll get another deploy?

Black Diamond will of course have their engineers working on these issues and will of course be able to assure you it works well, but it lacks the simplicity of the traditional method. It will not, and cannot last as long due to the battery dilemma. Regardless of what they tout, the system just isn't as simple as a cylinder. Newer is not always better.
12-27-2013, 05:05 PM
skiingsamurai

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffhucker

Batteries and fans don't seem very faith inspiring to me, first, batteries can't sit for an entire season and be relied on to have a full output. They WILL lose charge over time, a properly filled/sealed cylinder wont. Second, your battery WILL lose its ability to take a full charge over time, nothing you can do about this regardless of your treatment and care. So after say 3 seasons what is it actually capable of? After how many seasons do you buy a new battery, worth $500 or more??? Even at that are you going to re-charge your battery every week, daily? There are a lot of what ifs. What about the electrical system shorting out if/when it gets wet? Your pack has water, and is exposed to snowy wet conditions, are those connections waterproof? Last, that fan has to be clear. if it can't suck, it won't fill your bag. What are the odds something gets in the way or fouls the actual fan blades or the mechanism itself up? With regards to cold temps, BD claims their pack will get at least 1 full inflation in very cold temps, considering that a lot of us live in pretty cold places, the advantage of their multiple deploys per charge isn't exactly reality. Furthermore, if you have just been in a slide, at least for me, I'm not too concerned about going out and squeezing in another lap. There may be additional hazards on the way out, but with that battery, can you really be sure that you'll get another deploy?

Black Diamond will of course have their engineers working on these issues and will of course be able to assure you it works well, but it lacks the simplicity of the traditional method. It will not, and cannot last as long due to the battery dilemma. Regardless of what they tout, the system just isn't as simple as a cylinder. Newer is not always better.

Yup, batteries lose charge and cant hold a charge after a number of cycles, agreed. THIS IS WHY YOU DONT USE RECHARGEABLE BATTERIES IN BEACONS! Throw the fuckers away and buy new ones. This pack isnt a beacon that is constantly using power. Id replace the batteries after every deployment and after each season, regardless of the recommendation. My beacon batteries never get below 50% before I toss them. This is your life, not your vibrator.

$500 for batteries?! Until you cite a source for that I am going to call you an idiot.

Tough to argue the blocked fan point, though. As for all the other naysaying, Im pretty sure people had very similar comments about the existing systems (especially the 9mm blank detonating to activate the system), and they all seem to work really well.
12-28-2013, 03:27 PM
horizon

Jong question: is there any place in Utah (ideally Snowbird) or Jackson Hole to rent a Snowpulse canister for a few days?

I've brought my airbag backpack with me from Europe, but having read that it's far more difficult to fly with it than over there, I've left the canister at home, hoping that I could rent one. (I had read that emptying it is not sufficient - you may need to unscrew the valve etc...had zero time to prepare before the trip so the canister stayed home).
02-02-2014, 02:14 AM
tylaw333

Sorry tosay none of this thread is relevant because battery packs are out only a matter of time till black diamond takes over haha
04-05-2014, 02:41 PM
bern43

Scuba shop overfilled my BCA Float Cylinder despite my giving them the warning about under filling and then topping off. It's at 2900 psi right now. Silly question, but how in the hell do I release the air from this thing so that I can get it refilled to the right pressure? I'm guessing just hooking it up and testing it would not be the best idea?

Edit: Figured this out. Just pull the pin without the other hose disconnected. Easy enough.
04-23-2014, 05:44 PM
angrysasquatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hacksaw

I think you'd violate the warranty on the system if you didn't follow the manufactures instructions. There is also a problem with using O2 vs. Nitrogen. At cold temps O2 will cause ice to form as the air rushes through the small size Ballon ports (i.e., clog them and keep the ballon from inflating). That's why they use Nitrogen to keep this from happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chugachjed

Nobody is filling with straight o2 if it's a dive shop you're probably getting 40-60% nitrogen and if it's not its straight air and you're getting ~80% nitrogen.

I'll chime my 2 cents in here based on experience with paintball systems and a bit of enginerd

With compressed air, as it decompresses the temperature drops. This happens with any pressurized fluid. As temperature drops, if it is below a certain point it will form a solid. With N2, that temp is -210*c. Air contains mostly N2, but also O2 and other parts, but most notably water vapour. Water, as we know freezes at 0*c. So with a cold ambient temp (what all the metal components of the system are at), and a rapidly depressurizing tank (not many other uses that compressed air tanks get completely depleted in seconds), there could foreseeable be issues. If you want a demonstration, pull a valve core out of your tire, a bit of ice will form on the valve stem.

As for why some manufacturers feel they can get away with regular compressed air, it is most likely designed differently, using a lower pressure tank or a larger orifice (less restriction to flow) will decrease any potential freeze-up.
04-23-2014, 06:47 PM
cat in january

Really thought ABS would have cleared their carbon tank for US DOT standards-guess there just is not much money over here.

Past year has seen fire sales on most airbag brands.

Japan continues to be the suck for airbags.

In terms of getting mine filled, it has been a PITA. I have the ABS vario and there is no "local" dealer.

After going through almost not being able to rent a canister and trigger in Golden, BC after flying out I now have 2 canisters and triggers. one empty canister and spent trigger for travel and a full canister and new trigger for local use- Chic Chocs last February.

I have one used the pack on two hut trips with moderate and considerable avalanche ratings and I was glad I had it. All the other times I have chosen a different pack, but then again all my other times have been in New England.

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