What do You Want in an Online Ski Shop?

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11-02-2004, 02:32 PM
jayfrizzo

What do You Want in an Online Ski Shop?
The title pretty much says it all: What do you want in an online ski shop?

The company I work for started out with the mission to carry niche, high-end outdoor gear. They were successful in this endeavor, and as a result of this success grew like mad, diversifying the brands and product they carry. But eventually this growth and diversifyin' threatened to dilute their original mission.

So to get our original site back to our roots, we're launching a few new brands, one devoted to skiing and one devoted to snowboarding (and a couple others that aren't that important here).

Our goal, naturally, is to create "the best" shops on the web for their respective sport. But "the best" can mean many different things to many different people.

What does it mean to you? What do you want in an online Ski Shop? Snowboard Shop?
- Exceptional customer service? What is exceptional to you?
- Hard-to-find items?
- A sense of community within the shop?
- Extremo mountain dudes?
- A maggot discount?
The honchos at the company will see this, so bring your suggestions. And for those of you know who I work for, please don't use this as a space to tell us how rad or lame we are. This is for suggestions about a new shop.

Thanks,
J-
11-02-2004, 02:41 PM
Clack

Free bagels on Friday mornings.

Wait...
11-02-2004, 02:44 PM
glademaster

I think the most important thing is carrying gear that is typically hard to find most places, like top of the line fat boards and production pro models, (i.e. Legend Pro, Spatula, Shanouk, etc) green spring binders, etc. Basically carry and sell the kind of gear that most people on this board use and trust season in and season out. Having good prices is a key also, I want to buy a pair of VEx's, but since no local shops carry them, I have to turn to the web, but I won't pay 600 bucks for them.

If you carry top of the line and hard to find freeride and backcountry oriented gear and sell it at a decent price, I know that I'll buy my gear from ya. Just my $0.02
11-02-2004, 02:48 PM
Spicoli

A company willing to call BS on price fixing...I mean M.A.P. pricing
11-02-2004, 02:51 PM
truth

For me the intraweb shopping experience is about these things:

Price: It's the intraweb, so you better be damn near the cheapest place to buy it.

Reliability: It's the intraweb so you better make me believe it will get here quickly and in one piece, if not you better be willing to replace it or refund it even quicker.

Informative: This means size charts, quality pics and lengthy despcriptions so I know what the hell it is.

Spam Free: I found you once I can find you again, if you bombard me with useless SPAM every fricken other day I will not be a return customer.

If you can do those things you're all good.
11-02-2004, 02:51 PM
scoober

I'll compare this to online bike shops because I think some similarities can be drawn, and online bike shops are so hot right now.

I shop for bike stuff online because:
1. I know what I am looking for.

2. I can make decisions for myself.

3. I don't need someone in a shop trying to tell me what is rad or core.

5. I fear face to face human interaction... no wait just kidding.

6. I want it to be available, in stock, standard lead time shipment, no "special orders".

7. MSRP, or local shop SRP blowz the veritable goat's wang.

I would expect the same experience from an online ski shop. Given that though, the online bike biz has some bad things about it too... namely if you are looking at the website that has the cheapest prices, they are more than likely going to have the worst customer service and staff knowledge.

I also know that the prices at online bike shops are driven by their ability to buy in volume, strip off OEM parts, etc, so that doesn't really apply to ski/ski gear either. But the prices have to be competitive. People will be paying shipping and there has to be some cost incentive to shop online and have to wait for your stuff, instead of going down to the shop and walking away with it that day.
11-02-2004, 02:52 PM
13

Quote:

Originally Posted by glademaster

Having good prices is a key also, I want a pair of VEx's, but since no local shops carry them, I have to turn to the web, but my mom and dad won't pay 600 bucks for them.

Fixed ... :D
11-02-2004, 02:52 PM
optics

1. Responsive customer service w/one person to deal with throughout the process. No lost info. or he said/she said. The ability to contact/buy from a single salesperson if you wish, like a local store. Email reponses within a few hours at most, not days.

2. Accurate order tracking.

3. Price matching w/other online stores. Crucial to building a dedicated client base - all else being equal, I think most would rather get everything from one outlet than multiple, I know I do.

4. Accurate "in-stock" counts - not "we can get it so we call it in-stock".

5. No spammy "reviews" by shop employees (not saying you do this, of course, but some do), we're not that stupid.
11-02-2004, 02:55 PM
meatdrink9

High-end gear.

Free shipping (with good tracking numbers)

Really good prices. It's the internet. People shopping online know how to find good deals. It seems like maggots are really gifted at finding good deals. Make your prices so consistently good that your store is the first stop everyone makes. Before long it will become the only stop if your prices really are that much better. Make money on volume rather mark-up per item. It works for walmart. If your prices aren't substantially better than a ski shop why would someone buy from you and lose the rush of walking out the door with the skis right then. They also will have more difficulties with warranty issues when it requires shipping, analysis, being without their gear etc... make the price so good that they're willing take that risk. Or maybe if there is a warranty concern...back your gear so well that if there is an issue that might need to be warrantied offer them free return shipping and make that satisfaction/warranty guarantee visible in the purchase process.

just ideas
11-02-2004, 02:56 PM
JMO

Since I'm trying to buy new clothing right now, here's my list of suggestions as they relate to jackets and pants and all things softgoods:

-Make it easy for the user to view the clothing in all its available colors. Many sites only give you a jacket in one color and then include a swatch of other color pallets that are available. But many times, it's hard to figure out what those other colors look like without seeing them on the jacket, itself.

-Understanding the right size is crucial to an online clothing purchase. How do I know that a large is going to fit my svelt physique (just kidding, I don't have a physique)? How bulky is a 3-layer jacket versus a 2-layer shell? And don't give me a pop-up chart full of odd numerical calculations and columns and graphs that I can't understand. I was an English major. I don't get math.

-While the technical jargon is good - and I do need to know what the clothing is made of - I also would like to know what temperatures it's ideal in, and what kind of conditions it's best suited for. Also, if I buy a two-layer jacket, can you suggest layering to go underneath it for colder weather or any other "if you want this, you'll probably want this, too" suggestions?

-Deals are good - everyone wants a deal. Where's the closeout rack on your site? If I can find last year's stuff for half the price, I'm buying that first. Most of the time.
11-02-2004, 02:56 PM
glademaster

Oh NO You Didn't

Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
Having good prices is a key also, I want a pair of VEx's, but since no local shops carry them, I have to turn to the web, but my mom and dad won't pay 600 bucks for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13

Fixed ... :D

Hey, I've bought and paid for almost all the skis I own today, (4 out of 5 pairs) and the ones they paid for was the first pair I ever owned, which was something like 5 or 6 years ago. I work my ass off for ski gear. Oh yeah, one other thing, how about offering spancerships or big time discounts to young, needy, up and coming freeskiers ;)
11-02-2004, 02:57 PM
Free Range Lobster

super maggot discount
boobz

honestly, decent honest maggot pricing.
shops gouge too much
but im sure the ski companies do the same
11-02-2004, 02:58 PM
Barnballs

bingo..

Quote:

If you carry top of the line and hard to find freeride and backcountry oriented gear and sell it at a decent price, I know that I'll buy my gear from ya

....true.

It would be nice to one-stop shop for a majority (if not all) of the gear most of us use every season - which would include the top tier models/lines of most major manufacturers...not like 2. It would be nice not to have to look through hundreds of other useless (respectivley of course) items before getting to the goods. Objective and technically sound descriptions of the different models would be nice, with an 800# for follow-up, shipping and technical questions.

And of course competitive pricing and an endless inventory is a real bonus.

Easy to negotiate and locate products type web-site with a 'RETURN TO SHOPPING' button in the view-basket page would also be nice. :biggrin:
11-02-2004, 02:59 PM
Buster Highmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfrizzo

Exceptional customer service? What is exceptional to you?
- A) Sensible, well informed phone staffers.
  B) Easy, no hassle return policy for reasonable returns.
  
  Quote:
- Hard-to-find items?

A) Sensible, well informed phone staffers.
B) Easy, no hassle return policy for reasonable returns.

Quote:

A sense of community within the shop?

No snobs.

Quote:

Extremo mountain dudes?

Doodettes, puh-leeze.

Quote:

A maggot discount?

Shure...
[quote]

1. Price and availability, whether it means in stock, price matching or special ordering.
2. Attitude/customer service.
3. Ease of browsing the site. I don't know who you work for, but I do not like the way backcountry.com is set up.

I'll use Moosejaw for an example. They come off as zany. Sometimes they pour it on a little thick but they have their stuff together. I'll usually email any question I have for them because they make me laugh and they are very prompt with a response. Also, though it's now changed, they initially offered a membership that allowed for a 10% discount off full-price or 5% off sale (they now have their rewards points thing going which is not as cool...). This has led me to have them special order various coats that I could have bought direct from the company (Cloudveil) but I bought from MJ for the savings.

Finally, free shipping. Shipping rates that depend on item price are rediculous. I avoid buying from companies that try to sneak in that extra 5 bucks in the shipping costs.

Edit: Sale prices- if something is mysteriously $1.47 less than it's original $79.99... that isn't much of a sale.

Yeah, yeah, what they all said.

Accurate sizing information. Build a database of brands and sizes. I wear a medium in Patagonia, but a large in Arcteryx. Let me enter my measurements, then you spit out what size I wear in certain brands. But, even this isn't fail safe, so a really fast, efficient return policy where you pay shipping if your database spit out the size that I didn't like.

Top notch gear is of course key. I know you may be strapped by manufacturers to sell at MSRP, so pricing could be tough. But like someone else said, price matching is a solid policy.

Knowledgeable staff and techs. I don't know a damn thing about mounting alpine bindings, but can tell you exactly where to put my tele bindings. If I want alpine boards, I want the store to help me know exactly where to mount my alpine bindings to get the ride I want. Same with clothing. I expect them to know where I should wear a hardshell and where a softshell may work better.

Good luck.

Price, Price, Price, and Price.
Reasonable Shipping with tracking numbers for purchases over $100, i.e. what the USPS, UPS, or FedEx actually charges, not an additional $5 for the box and packing it
An expectation that I can give you my CC# with a degree of certainity that I'll actualy get the goods

And my biggest pet peeve with online retailers:
When you place the order online at 2 o'clock retailers time with a request for next day shipping it gets filled and shipped that day, not three days later and then you get billed the exorbuitant shipping fee too even though you didn't get the goods when you needed them.

Price seems key-- most of the online buys I make start with froogle. I know it's not foolproof, but if you're not on the front page of Froogle, I bet I never find you. ALSO, I'm willing to pay a little extra to fund my local shop. I know the guys, and I'm loyal. I've never felt any loyalty to an online shop. It's too remote.

Honest, and extremely knowledgable phone (or online chat) staff, without the I'm-rad-and-you're-not 'tude that is so easy for shop monkeys everywhere to pick up.

"We don't have that in stock, but I'll order it for you today" isn't great, but it's better than "We don't have that. Why don't you consider this similar but somehow inferior product."

So, for me:
1) Best price
2) Best staff
3) Best stock.

Rad! The rarely seen double post under the new format.

So assuming I'm not looking for a rare item, here's my priority list in order.

1.) Lowest price price matching - $10. I generally won't go through the hassle of explaining to a costomer service rep to match my price, and possibly wait on hold for a while. Make it worth my while to shop there. Give me $10.

2.) Rockstar costomer service. Not waiting on hold for longer than 2 minutes. The person on the other end of the phone being knowlegable, friendly, and not pushy. Email return time in 24 hours after business hours. Within a couple hours during business hours.

3. 100% satisfaction/30 day return policy no restocking fees either. A bad experience here will convince me never to shop there again.

4. Accurate and thorough product descriptions Lots of pictures. I mean LOTS! For skis I want dimensions, turn raidii, construction materials...the works. For clothing, I want measurements. I want to know if they fit snug or baggy. I want to know about construction here too. Basically, I don't want to have to open up another browser window with the company's tech manual to learn about the product.

5. Extras Sale items, free stickers & posters with items, free shipping on orders over $x.xx, pretty girls modeling the clothes and skis, an organized and easily navigatable website.

Package deals that the buyer can put together based on their selection of gear. I'm a sucker for them. If i can save a few bucks buy buying something i will eventually need anyways, i'll get it.

Rewards for buying stuff. If i pump enough money into your site i'd like to get a little something back.

I think most have already hit the key points, but I'll give a non-skiing example.

I own a late-80's German car for which parts and service prices direct from Gunther down at the dealer and even most independent, specialist shops are obscenely expensive. Combine that w/ a general mechanical aptitude and interest in that kind of stuff, and it means I do almost all of the work on it myself. Whenever I have a particularly large job that I'm about to undertake, now I don't even call around or shop the web for prices. I call one shop, talk to either Chuck or Jason (I'm don't ask for them specifically, they're just the two guys that always answer), and say something like "I need to do the clutch, and I might as well do all the other stuff nearby that I'm going to have to take off anyway." A few days later, a box arrives at my house with every fricken part I need right down to new bolts where desired, and not a single one I don't need. Often, this is upwards of 20 different line items (I'm counting flywheel bolts for example as 1 line), so this is a lot of stuff. One time they messed up and sent the wrong tool, and they overnighted it to me before I even sent the other one back.

Very rarely, they will be out of something that they indicated over the phone they had. They will call me usually later that day to let me know.

Are they the absolute cheapest? No, not quite, if you really search you could piece together all 20+ parts from various sources and probably beat their price by like 5%. Is it worth the hours of time on my part? Nope, not when the other guys will take forever to ship, stuff will show up as backordered, etc.

I'm going to echo a lot of the sentiments already here...

-Good customer service (i prefer phone when I have questions about gear) with *knowedgable* staff. One of my best experiences w/ a websites' customer service was a representative acknowledging she didn't know an answer and calling me back in 10 mins after finding the info i needed.

-I don't know if this is something the retailers can control, but one of my pet-peeves is when I'm looking at a product on a company site (marmot, patagonia, whatever) and I click on the "buy it online" bringing me to a retailer's site (rei.com, backcountry.com, etc) and they don't carry the product. PITA!

-Also, I like it when websites have subjective descriptions of the products they sell, rather than rehashing the same information from the manufacturer's website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big E

Awesome example

Werd. Get guys telling stories like this, and you'll be money.

Like this guy: :yourock:

Not like this guy: :tdo13:

If you end up having items drop shipped from the manufacturer, state plainly - PRIOR TO PURCHASE - that these items aren't stocked, are drop shipped from the mfg, and you won't provide your usual level of service with these items.

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