Ask the experts

When my Bronson was in the shop for a bit I brought my GG Pedalhead (medium w/ 450mm reach and 65 degree head angle running 150 mm fork) on some pretty steep hike a bike terrain up in the Cascades - Middle Fork Willamette River headwaters area. I was worried I’d get tossed, but I was blown away by how amazing the bike felt on the really steep hold on for dear life and send it bits. The only parts where the bike sucked where the high speed traversing bits with root and shale chatter. I think it helps that I run 29 x 2.6 wagon wheels on that thing - awesome grip while rolling over most anything, but still precise enough to really get your line threaded.

Here's an interesting one.
Ms Boissal has been riding her Occam for a few months now and yesterday the drivetrain starts making really shitty sounds out of the blue. I flipped the bike upside down, dropped the chain, the cranks and jockey wheels were spinning smooth and silent, the freehub sounded fine, no play in the cassette. I checked the chain, no kinks or stuck links, I put it back on and checked the derailleur, B-screw OK, nothing bent. No stick caught anywhere, no reason for the noise. We were 10 miles out and didn't have too much light so we took it easy on the way back. The noise came and went, happened in most gears, I was completely puzzled. By the time we got to the car it sounded like she's running an angle grinder across her cassette.

When we got home everything was miraculously back to being silent. I repeated the trailside investigation and nothing seemed off. I cleaned everything thoroughly, pulled the crankset to make sure it had no play, re-torqued the derailleur, made sure the cable was pulling fine, then pulled the cassette to scrub it. Took a look inside the freehub (DT Swiss 350) and what do you know, it was missing one of the springs pushing the ratchets together. Fortunately I had a couple springs from a previous upgrade so I could replace it. I reassembled everything, adjusted the derailleur, took the bike for a spin around the neighborhood, silent as an owl in flight. Just got a call from Ms Boissal that the noise is back. What am I missing?

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Here's an interesting one.
Ms Boissal has been riding her Occam for a few months now and yesterday the drivetrain starts making really shitty sounds out of the blue. I flipped the bike upside down, dropped the chain, the cranks and jockey wheels were spinning smooth and silent, the freehub sounded fine, no play in the cassette. I checked the chain, no kinks or stuck links, I put it back on and checked the derailleur, B-screw OK, nothing bent. No stick caught anywhere, no reason for the noise. We were 10 miles out and didn't have too much light so we took it easy on the way back. The noise came and went, happened in most gears, I was completely puzzled. By the time we got to the car it sounded like she's running an angle grinder across her cassette.

When we got home everything was miraculously back to being silent. I repeated the trailside investigation and nothing seemed off. I cleaned everything thoroughly, pulled the crankset to make sure it had no play, re-torqued the derailleur, made sure the cable was pulling fine, then pulled the cassette to scrub it. Took a look inside the freehub (DT Swiss 350) and what do you know, it was missing one of the springs pushing the ratchets together. Fortunately I had a couple springs from a previous upgrade so I could replace it. I reassembled everything, adjusted the derailleur, took the bike for a spin around the neighborhood, silent as an owl in flight. Just got a call from Ms Boissal that the noise is back. What am I missing?

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Dry rear derailleur? I get a horrible creaking sound when its super dry/dusty on the trails, when the chain is at its worst angle (largest cog) and I'm pushing heavy watts/climbing. The side load on the derailleur puts stress on all the pivots and it creaks like a $100 bike from Walmart. Right after the ride the sound can not be replicated in the bike stand, it's only heard when under load.
This phenomenon happens on both Mrs Dee Hubbs bike and mine.
I'm on XX1 RD, XX1 Cassette, XX1 Chain, Absolute Black Oval on XX1 Cranks, with a drivetrain that's so clean you could eat off of it, and get regular MucOff Bio Dry Lube.
The Mrs is on XTR11 RD with XTR 11-45 Cassette, XTR901 Chain, XX1 DM on XX1 cranks, with same cleanliness and regular lube job.
My remedy is regular soap clean of the drivetrain, and then a lube of all the pivot points on the RD with some Triflow. This will last 15 plus rides in the dusty conditions before either of us get a creak again.

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Dry rear derailleur? I get a horrible creaking sound when its super dry/dusty on the trails, when the chain is at its worst angle (largest cog) and I'm pushing heavy watts/climbing. The side load on the derailleur puts stress on all the pivots and it creaks like a $100 bike from Walmart. Right after the ride the sound can not be replicated in the bike stand, it's only heard when under load.
This phenomenon happens on both Mrs Dee Hubbs bike and mine.
I'm on XX1 RD, XX1 Cassette, XX1 Chain, Absolute Black Oval on XX1 Cranks, with a drivetrain that's so clean you could eat off of it, and get regular MucOff Bio Dry Lube.
The Mrs is on XTR11 RD with XTR 11-45 Cassette, XTR901 Chain, XX1 DM on XX1 cranks, with same cleanliness and regular lube job.
My remedy is regular soap clean of the drivetrain, and then a lube of all the pivot points on the RD with some Triflow. This will last 15 plus rides in the dusty conditions before either of us get a creak again.

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I'll try that, thanks. The moondust has definitely been horrendous and I could see it mixing with grease to make some heinous creaky gunk. She's shuttling dusty trails today so she can probably live with an angry drivetrain for the 6 pedal revolutions she'll do...

Agree with Dee. The Shimano 12-speed I've been running this year seems really sensitive to the dust around SLC. It gets very noisy after only about 10 miles of following someone in dusty conditions. Not as bad if I'm by myself. I'm moving back to a dry lube to see if it helps. I've been using Rock n Roll gold, but seems to build up dirt and grime too quickly.

I'm having the same problem with dust on the XT. It's pretty annoying. Today I lubed the chain with lots of (garbage) Rock N Roll Extreme, then rode. 5mi in it was so noisy that I thought my axle might be broken or something. I lubed it again (I carry a tiny bottle and rag now), and 4 miles later it was horrible. So I started spraying it with water and that lasted just as long as the lube. I don't remember this being such an issue BITD. Is the 12s just that much more sensitive?

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Here's an interesting one.
Ms Boissal has been riding her Occam for a few months now and yesterday the drivetrain starts making really shitty sounds out of the blue. I flipped the bike upside down, dropped the chain, the cranks and jockey wheels were spinning smooth and silent, the freehub sounded fine, no play in the cassette. I checked the chain, no kinks or stuck links, I put it back on and checked the derailleur, B-screw OK, nothing bent. No stick caught anywhere, no reason for the noise. We were 10 miles out and didn't have too much light so we took it easy on the way back. The noise came and went, happened in most gears, I was completely puzzled. By the time we got to the car it sounded like she's running an angle grinder across her cassette.

When we got home everything was miraculously back to being silent. I repeated the trailside investigation and nothing seemed off. I cleaned everything thoroughly, pulled the crankset to make sure it had no play, re-torqued the derailleur, made sure the cable was pulling fine, then pulled the cassette to scrub it. Took a look inside the freehub (DT Swiss 350) and what do you know, it was missing one of the springs pushing the ratchets together. Fortunately I had a couple springs from a previous upgrade so I could replace it. I reassembled everything, adjusted the derailleur, took the bike for a spin around the neighborhood, silent as an owl in flight. Just got a call from Ms Boissal that the noise is back. What am I missing?

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No experience with Shimano 12-speed, but I'd start by pulling the cassette again, and see if it that 350 is trying to shed a pawl spring again. Then just warranty that wheel.

If not, I've had similar intermittent issues (bad sounds on the drive side and/or brake rub/squealing) with:
- a derailleur hanger screw that keeps backing out. Hanger is effectively the dropout for that bike
- a through axle that bottoms out on the threads before it is truly tight

In each case (different bikes), easy fixes that started out with some expensive-sounding noises. In her case, that little bit of extra width given by one of these sources could conceivably allow a 350 to open a bit to allow a spring to get loose, no? They are just press-fit IIRC.

Good luck, I hope she finishes up a good ride and you can get that bike sorted.

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Dry rear derailleur? I get a horrible creaking sound when its super dry/dusty on the trails, when the chain is at its worst angle (largest cog) ...
I'm on XX1 RD, XX1 Cassette, XX1 Chain, Absolute Black Oval on XX1 Cranks, with a drivetrain that's so clean you could eat off of it

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I solved this problem on my X01 11 speed by installing Absolute Black CNC machined NW pulley cogs to replace the stock molded pulley cogs. The composite material used by SRAM in the X01 11 speed derailleur was a muck and crud magnet and sounded like crap as soon as it dried out. The new pulley wheels changed everything. Not sure if the materials are the same on the SRAM Eagle derailleurs- but it’s worth looking into!

Also if it's Shimano 12sp, pull the cover off of the clutch and check it out, make sure you use the correct lube. Shimano Inter Hub Grease or Shimano Grease for Shadow RD+ Rear Derailleur.

I pre-ordered my kid Commencal's new Absolut 24. It doesn't come with pedals, and Protaper stopped making pedals so I don't get free pedals anymore. Is there a reason to go with anything other than OneUp composites for a $50 set of pedals?

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

I pre-ordered my kid Commencal's new Absolut 24. It doesn't come with pedals, and Protaper stopped making pedals so I don't get free pedals anymore. Is there a reason to go with anything other than OneUp composites for a $50 set of pedals?

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Unless you specifically want composites, you can get any number of semi-generic metal pedals for about the same price.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

No experience with Shimano 12-speed, but I'd start by pulling the cassette again, and see if it that 350 is trying to shed a pawl spring again. Then just warranty that wheel.

If not, I've had similar intermittent issues (bad sounds on the drive side and/or brake rub/squealing) with:
- a derailleur hanger screw that keeps backing out. Hanger is effectively the dropout for that bike
- a through axle that bottoms out on the threads before it is truly tight

In each case (different bikes), easy fixes that started out with some expensive-sounding noises. In her case, that little bit of extra width given by one of these sources could conceivably allow a 350 to open a bit to allow a spring to get loose, no? They are just press-fit IIRC.

Good luck, I hope she finishes up a good ride and you can get that bike sorted.

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Pawl? The 350 is ratchet-based, the springs are big conical things that push the 2 ratchets together. I had an old DT 3-pawl design hub that lost a spring, that was a hoot to deal with...
Should have thought of taking pics of the hub with the missing spring in case it does become a warranty issue though. Not sure when the thing went missing, it's not exactly hard to notice an extra spring when you assemble a hub.
I took care of the hanger bolt, it was torqued to spec, so was the axle. Hum... Thanks for the suggestions though! I'm hoping it's a grease+dust issue, I did notice that the rubber plug that caps the clutch tension bolt was flopping about yesterday, maybe more dust than usual got in there.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

you can get any number of semi-generic metal pedals for about the same price.

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Such as? OneUp's are $125 and $100-200 seems to be the norm for quality metal pedals. I'm mostly looking at composites because they're cheap, and fun colors are a nice bonus.

Question:
Ok, so I have both a wet lube and a dry lube at the house... I have a handful of rides where I don't know which is best... or if it just doesn't matter and I clean and relube when I'm done. There are a few trails that are super dusty right now (go figure) that have a small creek crossing or two. So, you have both extremes. Which lube does one pick?

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Originally Posted by climberevan

I'm having the same problem with dust on the XT. It's pretty annoying. Today I lubed the chain with lots of (garbage) Rock N Roll Extreme, then rode. 5mi in it was so noisy that I thought my axle might be broken or something. I lubed it again (I carry a tiny bottle and rag now), and 4 miles later it was horrible. So I started spraying it with water and that lasted just as long as the lube. I don't remember this being such an issue BITD. Is the 12s just that much more sensitive?

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There is a good chance you have too much/not set lube on your chain that will attract junk then be noisy. And with anything, the lower the tolerances (like a 12 speed drive train) the more you'll get the noise when shits gunked up.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Such as? OneUp's are $125 and $100-200 seems to be the norm for quality metal pedals. I'm mostly looking at composites because they're cheap, and fun colors are a nice bonus.

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Wellgo mg1's are the most common I've seen. But there are a ton of generic platforms on Amazon. A quick search showed some "rockbros" for $28 that look decent. And if you're anti Amazon, any shop should be able to get those wellgos (although covid supply issues might affect that).

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Thanks for the suggestions though! I'm hoping it's a grease+dust issue, I did notice that the rubber plug that caps the clutch tension bolt was flopping about yesterday, maybe more dust than usual got in there.

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If any SLC folks need some shadow RD+ grease to service or troubleshoot the clutch on a Shimano 12-sp rear derailleur, let me know. I can give you a dollop from the small container I got, which I'm assuming will last me a very long time.

I have a bunch of OneUp composites and MG1s on various bikes and much prefer the OneUps - thinner, larger surface, better grip, and better durability IME (magnesium body gets pretty banged up). Actually I've mostly retired the MG1s.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Wellgo mg1's are the most common I've seen. But there are a ton of generic platforms on Amazon. A quick search showed some "rockbros" for $28 that look decent. And if you're anti Amazon, any shop should be able to get those wellgos (although covid supply issues might affect that).

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Gotcha. Yeah, not putting Wellgos or chinesium Amazon off-brand pedals on this bike when the OneUps are $50.

How to clean and/or lube internal routing on a carbon frame? Yeti SB150 specifically. Swapping the drivetrain over and putting new housing. Old housing wedged in there really bad with dirt.

These are internal tubes within tubes style routing not open into the frame cavity routing.

Something mild like Maxima suspension cleaner? Simple green? Nothing and just lube the new housing somehow?

I would use an air attachment for a compressor first.

I had a similar creak on XT/XTR combo this weekend. Bailed halfway through the climb as I thought it could be the axel. Pulled the cassette and cleaned it up when checking the axel. Quiet. Not sure if it worked it’s way loose or something but didnt add lube to the chain or clean anything. Tightened to 45ish Nm. Hard to tell with the notches.

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Originally Posted by rideit

I would use an air attachment for a compressor first.

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Duh, I didn't even think of that.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Gotcha. Yeah, not putting Wellgos or chinesium Amazon off-brand pedals on this bike when the OneUps are $50.

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Not trying to convince you one way or the other, but plenty of name brand pedals are just rebranded wellgos (kinda like how lots of hubs are just rebranded novatecs). No idea who's making the one ups, but I can pretty much guarantee that they're made in some random Chinese factory and are functionally identical to any number of generic brands. Making platform pedals isn't exactly rocket surgery.

I have the plastic one ups. They work well and are a much bigger platform than most generics which is nice for my big feet. I smash them into rocks regularly and the pins are just m3 screws so I bought a 50 pack and replace as needed in 30 seconds.