Shit that annoys you

People who leave their poorly trained dogs* off leash on hiking/biking trails.

My dog will fucking bite your dog if your dog rushes him or gets in his face. I don’t care if your dog just wants to sniff some assholes and play, my dog has been bitten by strange dogs enough times that he no longer fucks around. He doesn’t need to stay on a leash to stay by my side. He will heel and come every time. I do it because it’s the law and so I can keep his head from your dog when your dog invades his space.

Really tired of the “maybe you shouldn’t bring him outside if he’s so vicious” comments when I ask people to control their dogs, please, and let them know that my dog WILL bite.

*I have no issue with dogs off leash who are behaved, come when called, and won’t approach another dog if not invited or given permission.

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Originally Posted by Danno

If you use a debit card as "credit" it technically has the same legal protections, but not the same functional ones, like I said and like you admitted. And those are hudge!

For example, someone steals my credit card numbers and charges up $1000 of stuff. What happens next? I call my card company, they investigate, but in the meantime there's no effect to me (other than the mild irritant of having them issue a new card). Same scenario with the debit card, what happens? That $1000 is GONE from your bank account, and while the bank investigates you are out that money. How can you act like that's just a small difference? That's a functional protection with credit cards that you don't get with debit cards, and reason enough to never use one.

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Meh. Liquidity is liquidity. If my $1,000 is GONE and I need it I use my credit card in the meantime. And vice versa. Both have a place. Provisional credit has to be issued within 10 days (5 if run through the VISA/MC network). That’s well within any grace period that might be an issue. And that’s if your bank is a bunch of yokels. If they take more than a day to plug the funds back into your account that’s a good reason to find a new bank.

Point being, the useful admonition is to maintain multiple ways to pay. Not to eschew debit cards entirely.

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

Meh. Liquidity is liquidity. If my $1,000 is GONE and I need it I use my credit card in the meantime. And vice versa. Both have a place. Provisional credit has to be issued within 10 days (5 if run through the VISA/MC network). That’s well within any grace period that might be an issue. And that’s if your bank is a bunch of yokels. If they take more than a day to plug the funds back into your account that’s a good reason to find a new bank.

Point being, the useful admonition is to maintain multiple ways to pay. Not to eschew debit cards entirely.

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Disagree. The more you pull that card out of your wallet, the more likely you're going to deal with this problem (and it's worse if they somehow steal or guess your pin). And yes, if you're fully liquid and can short-term absorb $1000 suddenly withdrawn from your bank, the danger of bad consequences is lessened. But why take that risk? What benefit is there to using the debit card as a credit card over a credit card? The only reason I have ever heard is "budgeting", and the person who needs to use a debit card for budgeting purposes is much less likely to be able to absorb a short term loss from their bank account. If you have the ability to use a credit card, I don't see the benefit of using the debit card. And if you feel the need to have multiple ways to pay (which I agree is useful), why not multiple credit cards? Again, don't see the need for one of those methods to be a debit card. Credit cards and ATM card provide the same benefits. And if you use the ATM card rarely and obviously only for cash, you minimize the chances of it being compromised and your bank account being compromised.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Disagree. The more you pull that card out of your wallet, the more likely you're going to deal with this problem (and it's worse if they somehow steal or guess your pin). And yes, if you're fully liquid and can short-term absorb $1000 suddenly withdrawn from your bank, the danger of bad consequences is lessened. But why take that risk? What benefit is there to using the debit card as a credit card over a credit card? The only reason I have ever heard is "budgeting", and the person who needs to use a debit card for budgeting purposes is much less likely to be able to absorb a short term loss from their bank account. If you have the ability to use a credit card, I don't see the benefit of using the debit card. And if you feel the need to have multiple ways to pay (which I agree is useful), why not multiple credit cards? Again, don't see the need for one of those methods to be a debit card. Credit cards and ATM card provide the same benefits. And if you use the ATM card rarely and obviously only for cash, you minimize the chances of it being compromised and your bank account being compromised.

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The reality is most consumers will not fully pay off their credit card balances monthly and WILL pay finance charges on every purchase they make with their credit card. If you can avoid finance charges credit cards are the better bet, sure, but that’s because credit card rewards are far better. But to posit that MORE credit cards are a better bet for most people is to deny reality and human nature. It’s like preaching abstinence instead of safe sex. Paying a 10+% finance charge or having a short term liquidity crunch? Sorry, the truth is most consumers are better off occasionally having a tight checking account balance for a few days.

Debit cards are more restricted than credit cards, too. Typically, credit cards allow daily transaction volumes up to your credit limit. Debit cards usually have a limit of $1,500 to $2,500. That’s a good thing.

I will agree that you should NEVER put your PIN number into a point of sale terminal.

Again, though, your financial institution should make this a non-issue. If they don’t, that’s a reason to switch.

So, your argument that using debit cards over credit cards is just fine is mostly that people are too stupid financially speaking to justify using a credit card over a debit card. Ok.

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Originally Posted by Danno

So, your argument that using debit cards over credit cards is just fine is mostly that people are too stupid financially speaking to justify using a credit card over a debit card. Ok.

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Debit cards are a useful tool, that’s all. For most people, they work better than credit cards, even when they are compromised. Legal liability for fraud is not different between the two payment methods, no matter how much you try to paint a distinction.

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

Debit cards are a useful tool, that’s all. For most people, they work better than credit cards, even when they are compromised. Legal liability for fraud is not different between the two payment methods, no matter how much you try to paint a distinction.

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Whatever. You're never going to bounce a check because someone stole your credit card. But sure, no difference.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Whatever. You're never going to bounce a check because someone stole your credit card. But sure, no difference.

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You’re never going to pay a finance charge for your cable bill if you use your debit card. Either scenario is avoidable if you manage your finances proactively. Consumers pay a shitload more in finance charges, because they’re paying with a credit card rather than a check or debit card, than they pay in returned check fees because of a fraud incident. This is objective truth.

When we’re talking about what leaves most people in a better financial position over time? Use the debit card.

Stupid bitch...
This Woman Decorated Her Lawn Like a Concentration Camp for Halloween - VICEhttps://apple.news/Amv6YDGf5Ryikhfobi7yfAg

This Woman Decorated Her Lawn Like a Concentration Camp for Halloween
Complete with Hitler-saluting skeletons and an "arbeit macht frei" sign.
Listen, we don't give a shit if it's Halloween: there are some things you just don't depict in your front yard. Don't decorate your house with a MAGA-themed "purge and purify" display, even if you swear it's not racist. And definitely don't follow in the footsteps of Susan Lamerton, a Florida woman who somehow decided it would be a good idea to transform her lawn into an incoherent scene at a Nazi death camp.
According to local NBC affiliate WFLA, Lamerton littered her yard in New Port Richey with skeletons bearing Stars of David on their chests and concentration camp ID numbers on their arms. She posed them to look like they were giving the Nazi salute, which, as Splinter notes, isn't just awful—it doesn't make any goddamn sense. As if all that weren't offensive enough, she topped off her display with a sign that read "arbeit macht frei," or "work sets you free," which appeared most notoriously at the gates of Auschwitz.
Lamerton's neighbors were, understandably, completely fucking horrified. One told WFLA she couldn't sleep the first night she heard about the display; another said that, especially in light of the mass shooting in Pittsburgh, she couldn't believe Lamerton would put it up.
"It sickens me. This is disgusting," Lamerton's neighbor Mitchell Katz told the outlet. "I'm Jewish. This says she hates Jews and we should die."
So why the hell would anyone ever do this? As Lamerton told it, it's a kind of weird, extremely problematic protest: She claimed to be in a bitter feud with her local homeowner's association—something to do with landscaping—and decided to strike back by filling her yard with atrocious anti-Semitic Halloween decor. All this, she insisted, despite being Jewish herself.
"They’re trying to take my house," she told WFLA when asked why she'd put up the display. "I have freedom of speech."
She claimed to have received death threats over the decorations, but refused to take them down. Hopefully, she'll eventually just get rid of them now that Halloween is over, which, you know, thank God for that. This holiday has been a complete goddamn mess.
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Debit cards = all the risk and no reward.
Credit cards = no risk and all the reward.

Of course, this applies for those that are financial prudent. If you are able to treat a credit card like a debit card (only spending money that you have), then there is no reason to have a debit card.

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Originally Posted by spanky

applies for those that are financial prudent. If you are able to treat a credit card like a debit card

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Why do you hate merica?

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

I will agree that you should NEVER put your PIN number into a point of sale terminal.

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Interestingly, the USPS requires it for debit purchases.. it's a conspiracy, maaaan

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

I will agree that you should NEVER put your PIN number into a point of sale terminal.

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This I wasn't aware of, when a POS asks me "debit or credit"I've often chosen debit and entered my PIN, the only reason being I was under the impression that it was cheaper for the merchant as a debit charge and a wash for me, so why not? I guess the reason for not entering the PIN is security? More on that would be appreciated. And what about credit transactions that require a PIN, like in Europe?

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Originally Posted by rideit

Interestingly, the USPS requires it for debit purchases.. it's a conspiracy, maaaan

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I thought everyplace required it for debit purchases, no?

Not sure...at most places, my card runs as a credit (no pin) but at the post office, it always requires the pin...

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Originally Posted by Danno

Whatever. You're never going to bounce a check because someone stole your credit card. But sure, no difference.

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credit card gives you protections at the cost of higher merchant fees the greater consumer world pays. rewards cards even higher merchant fees.

debit card pass some risk to the consumer and give them lower fees.

Compromises happen at merchants, overwhelmingly. Why give them that information? Of every system you choose to trust with your payment info, that computer manned by a twitchy 17yo should be last/least. Also, fraud protections are nominally better if the transaction is routed over VISA/MC rails, though most good financial institutions will level that for you and many of the debit networks are catching up anyways. If you have to use your PIN, you have to use your PIN. But that’s only going to be true at places like the post office who only accept PIN networks for certain items or in Europe, where PINned (chip and PIN) transactions are more of a standard. Failing a standard, PIN numbers do fuck all for a consumer, however.

“Debit or credit” is a little bit of a misnomer. They’re really asking if you want to run it as a signature transaction or as a PIN transaction. It used to be, in virtually every instance, that signature always ran over VISA/MC networks. Not so straightforward anymore, as many “PIN” networks can take PIN-less transactions now.

Nevermind....

Someone on Nextdoor just literally said that those teachers who dressed up as Trumps wall were “celebrating Mexican culture” and “have nothing to be ashamed of.”
This fucking state sometimes. Holy shit.

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Originally Posted by rideit

Not sure...at most places, my card runs as a credit (no pin) but at the post office, it always requires the pin...

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Mine doesn't at all, and it's got to be one of the smallest in America. Mine run as credit.

Depends on what you’re buying at USPS —> http://about.usps.com/signs/sgn145/sgn145_001.htm

By “credit cards are not accepted for” they really just mean they don’t process those transactions on VISA/MC/discover/et. al. signature networks. Though that probably isn’t the whole picture, as money orders and other cash equivalents get a little tangled up in some other processing rules.

Dinner date brought over one of those fresh express prepackaged meal things even though we are both decent cooks. The thing was as lame and rank as it looked. When did they actually package that chicken and why did the sauce have a horrible aftertaste? Fast food culture must be stopped.

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Originally Posted by Rideski

Dinner date brought over one of those fresh express prepackaged meal things even though we are both decent cooks. The thing was as lame and rank as it looked. When did they actually package that chicken and why did the sauce have a horrible aftertaste? Fast food culture must be stopped.

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Full peach-coloured pantsuit tonghands-style TR to come?

God willing. The world could use more tonghands trip reports.

it annoys me that every time I see a post from that guy ^^^ my brain starts playing "The sloop John B" I mean it's a decent song, but enough is enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09dQmeB_NgU