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Quote:
Originally Posted by pechelman
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Todays Vail\Summit CAIC Forecast
so granted its slightly different aspect and slope angle but I just thought Id point out the similarities to the observations we made and the ones that Party made in K-chute. Just another warning that it might not be so easy to asses stability with the typical surface evaluations especially after this new snow.
be careful in your terrain choices
K would scare the shit out of me right now.
Monarch Pass 1/26/08, @ ~11,600' on SE facing slope of ~33deg.
Mostly sunny, w/ temps ~ mid 20s F.
6' deep pit: Shovel tests on the snow column yielded no failures on all wrist taps(A1-A5) and elbow blows(B1-B10), but settlement of the top 8"(loose powder of less than fist hardness) was observed. A very slight collapse(Q1) was observed on the first shoulder strike(C1) on a layer approx. 18" down. Snow column withstood subsequent shoulder strikes (C2-C10) without shear failure. Column failed(Q3) on final shovel pry on this weaker layer 18" down. This weaker layer was most likely, buried surface hoar, less than 1/8" thick. The bottom 18" - 70" of the column remained intact even when pryed out with a shovel. The snowpack from 18"-70" down consisted of pencil to one finger hardness snow.
It's very possible that a steeper slope (38+ deg) could have yielded different results with a shear failure (Q3) on the weaker layer.
IN the vacinity of Rollins Pass closer to Eldora on Sunday 1/27.
SE facing slope. Pit was ~ 4.5' to the ground...fairly wind affected.
Complete column Q3 failure at C2. (no pic) The entire column sheared off the ~1.5' deep base facet layer. (not really surprising)
The pics show multiple Q1/2 shears at B1-B10 on a different column I made to play around with and take a closer look.
You can see the faceted "ball bearing" texture in the second pic after I liftet the first major top slab off the column.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...n/P1020262.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...n/P1020265.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3...n/P1020268.jpg
Berthoud Pass
NW, NE, and North aspects. Blowing pretty hard creating a new windslab layer on top of the existing very hard wind slab. This shallow layer was quite reactive and sluffed on steepish slopes. The wind slab is sitting on top of a very deep layer of junk. Its hard to get things to go, but when they do, they'll go big.
Just can't let this whole thread slide by the season without a shot and a tale with the dreaded deadly ALL black avy icon... the one we almost never see... and in the South San Juans of all places.
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From CAIC 2/4/8
http://tetongravity.com/forums/attac...1&d=1202159342Quote:
Originally Posted by CAIC
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The CB area sounds like some exciting stuff too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAIC
http://tetongravity.com/forums/attac...1&d=1202159684
We had the rare "black rose" here in CB during the New Year's storm, too. Don't see that one often.
Biggest slide I've ever seen ran overnight tuesday morning 2/5. The E face of Gothic is the beautiful Alaska-esque face visible from the ski area. A few people live in the tiny town of Gothic year round. Billy Barr has been there for years, here's what he said about the slide on the CBAC: "That was a size 5. Ran further than i have ever seen in 36 years- across the river, the meadow, the road and a ways up the hill well beyond the river. Fracture was from the peak about 10-12 feet deep running to ground and in the range of 1500-2000 feet wide Also hit the bridge. Cleared the whole starting zone and everything else on the way down." :eek:
The CAIC reported the vertical on this slide as 3100' :eek:
Hopefully it fills back in for a springtime decent, it sure was looking amazing the day before.
Yucky up north
"Avalanche Warning in Effect through 2/9/2008 6:00:00 AM
Avalanche Danger The avalanche danger for the Front Range zone is overall HIGH. An avalanche warning is in effect for Friday. Avoid traveling on or below any terrain greater than 30 degrees."
^^^^^
Sweet!! (too look at at least!)
^^^ Between the Gothic slide and that one on White mtn., we're getting some rather massive ones. The one on White was remote triggered by clients in a guide-training course.
Down in the Cement creek drainage, a friend of mine was buried and a dog didn't make it :(. And some slednecker sent something down that covered the road where it's plowed- not cool given that's where moms go for walks with their strollers and dogs.
Needless to say, the ski area has been just fine by me.
13" on the 13th!!!
Great skiing in the trees since the Pass had been closed for 2-3 days solid and the 13+" was totally virgin.
Snowpack wise the base is a real mixed bag of hoar, hardslab, powder, and suncrust depending on aspect, elevation, etc. In the new snow there were obvious soft slabs from the storm and wind built on east faces above, at, and just below treeline. Skiing a lower angle cross drift right at treeline caused easy cracking which would have slid 2' deep if it were steep enough to slide there.
Not a day to be aggressive since if it goes it could go big with deep slab instability still significant. My gut is that the worst place to be right now is a steep, windloaded, N to NE to E to SE aspect right at treeline since these are perhaps more windloaded on top from strong winds and having depth hoar lying at the bottom. CAIC mentioned Stanley slide going big lower than usual at treeline last week - I think this is this effect.
South facing at/above treeline slopes skied very nicely, although I only wanted to ski where <30 deg and/or where wind scoured down to a few inches of fresh.
Something I've noted is that typically by this time of year we've gone through at least one significant warm spell that really settles the snowpack down and we start to talk about "bridging" over many of the deep slab instabilities such that it becomes more difficult to stress the pack down into the weak layers and hence trigger a slide. While we've had some dry spells they haven't been warm enough to really have the effect of settling out/consolidating the pack and creating a somewhat uniform bridging. I'm still holding back on the bigger lines until we get that warming/consolidation to reduce the odds of the big slides, perhaps in March.
should be in this thread too:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_8306484
sad, sad, sad
Lots to learn from in the video......
Who is your guide in the BC???
Massive weight of the snowpack as it moved down slope. Never seen carving out like that before by just snow, Looks more like the trail of a serac fall on a glacier. Or, maybe even the look of a large rock fall down a snowslope.Quote:
Originally Posted by HikeforTurns
The distance it went is also impressive...You see the clues in the mountains that slides like this happen, rare to be there when it does. Did anyone in town here it, or feel it that night?
did Black Lakes up at Vail Pass on Sunday. Beautiful day. Was up there last Saturday when it was so warm and had a small fracture about 3 feet across and about 18" deep.
Decided to dig a pit just to see today what was up basically. Dug about 4-5 feet down.
Found an ice layer about a 1/2" thick about 2 1/2 feet deep, that was the most distinguishable layer we found. Test failed at 4 from the elbow but only slightly, looked like maybe another small ice layer from last week maybe. Got another fail at 4 from the shoulder on the ice layer I mentioned above. Not a clean shear either time. This was done on a 38* slope north to ne facing at around 11k.
Skiing was great.
When I was in Alaska a couple years ago a slide covered the highway that leads into Valdez. It was a freak of nature. Notice the person standing on the side of road.Quote:
Originally Posted by jwolter7
http://www.biglines.com/./photos/blpic39981.jpg
Skied the North Couloir of Buffalo Mountain yesterday 3/11/08. The avy rose in the morning read Low on NW, W and SW aspects and Moderate above tree line on N, NE, E, SE, S aspects. We were aware that the forecast was calling for warm temperatures in the mid 40's with some clouds. It was clear in at 5am and about -1 F. We were a bit concerned about the southern aspects and the possibility of a warm slide so we thought we would stick to the east/North east aspect of the North Couloir.
After entering the couloir we chose an area that would give us the best representation of the entire snow pack. The pit was dug to the ground. The first meter and half were a single layer that was very supportive. Upon testing the the blocks it was difficult to get the block to break. The sheer was clean but did not propagate at all. After testing different blocks from the surface to the ground we concluded that if it were to rip it would be ripping all the way to the ground. In this conclusion we acknowledged the fact that the first meter and a half was one solid layer. The decision was made to ski and just follow proper safety protocol.
Some Photos of the pit. Sorry there are none of the interior pit.
http://www.biglines.com/photosv2/200...ines_83223.jpg
http://www.biglines.com/photosv2/200...ines_83222.jpg
skied East Vail for the first time on Saturday. There was light snow falling and we found about 3 or 4 inches of fresh snow on top. We skied the ridge and trees skiers left of Mushroom Bowl. We stopped and dug a pit near the top on a NE facing aspect at about 35*. The top 4 inches was very evident on top of a hard layer. About 18" deep was a pretty evident frozen ice type layer. Our compression test showed a slight break of the column at 3 from the elbow, but it was not a clean shear. I did go to pick up the column after the test and it lifted very cleanly at that frozen layer.
03.23.08 Due W facing hasty pit on K chute consisted of 14 layers alternating between cohesionless facets and crusts with 2 inches of windblown pow on top of said layers all resting on a 35 cm depth hoar base. Was the nastiest pit I've ever personally seen. Not one stable solid layer of snow, just firm crust and air. Not much energy in the pack, but it didn't need it. Skiing was rad.
yeah, but, is it snowing at your house?
This makes no sense to me. Were you posting drunk?Quote:
Originally Posted by telemike
you skied K then?Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
what made you comfortable with that?
looking for insight into the decision and not to criticize or anything
or am i an idiot and you just skied something else
We promptly turned around and went out for breakfast. Jesus rose from the dead it is said, I didn't feel I could pull that feat off that particular day as I was bloated with gas from the copious amounts of Indian food I ate the night before.Quote:
Originally Posted by pechelman
That actually makes 2 weekends in a row where we've backed off of something.
gotcha
next time eat more curry
the extra gas will help you rise above
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
no - not drunk
hazing MTS
skied EV today. Really good up top, shin deep cold smoke. As we got lower, it turned into unsupportive, bottomless facets. Steep lines E and N facing showed signs of wind loading. We stayed west facing and in the trees and avoided dangerous rollovers. It was a good ski.
anyone have any recent red mt pass beta on snowpack, routes, etc? we're headed down there for a hut trip next week and i'm trying to pull together some info. gracias.
4/1/2008 - Berthoud Pass
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6830/097cv9.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4394/bertvl7.jpg
According to CAIC, there were 20 avalanches (human- and naturally-triggered) this day, but we encountered no such activity directly. I would say that we saw about 6 or 7 naturally-triggered avalanches off the headwall in areas that no one would be skiing. The picture above should help illustrate the area we skied. On top was 6-8" of semi-compacted fresh snow. Underneath was a 2-foot deep slab that did not break upon heavy impact. Underneath that was a relatively weak thin layer and then another deep slab. Total depth of pit was about 4-5 feet.
We later attempted to skin up the chutes (north-facing) marked in yellow above. Because of the steep slope and lack of energy left (and long skis), I wasn't able to make it up. But in the process, we discovered that outside of the gladed area, snow in the open fields was VERY unstable with no sign of solidification. If you were to bootpack here, you would have sunk wasit-deep with no resistance.
steep southeast aspects were sketch today. Set a slide off on russell's SE face with a small cut on top. I wasn't close to the edge. It was ready to go. Slid on the last bad sun crust layer. Mines was skied by many, with np releases.
We set out to lap Grizzly Gulch today. Even after enduring near 60-mph winds for 1.5 hours, we had to back off. Three pits were dug on the SE-facing aspect about 30 yards apart. Mine was closer to the top of the slope and revealed an initial 2-foot layer of wind slab on top of sugar powder for another 3-4 feet (I hit rock bottom). The other two pits were more representative of the slope further downhill and didn't show us anything to indicate that it would have be safe to go. So we bailed, hiked a little further towards Grizzly Peak and dropped in towards A-Basin. Super wind buffed on top, a bit more manageable some 300-400 feet lower, and sun baked once we hit treeline. It was about 3 PM at this point.
Better to back off then get in trouble. What in particular made you convinced that the snow pits "didnt show us anything to indicate it would have been safe to go?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Pappagiorgio
I thought that was an interesting quote as well. Snow pits should be used to confirm what you're observing or make you feel less confident in stability. They shouldn't be used to make you feel more confident in something you're already feeling sketchy about. If you feel differently about what I said that's fine. It's just what I've been taught/my opinion, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitchell333
I've seen a lot of sketchy deep sugar snow in the last month or more, especially on the southern aspects, but a little bit of everywhere. Snowpack still seems pretty variable point to point - definitely isn't completely spring yet even if it seems like it once in awhile.
I didn't get a look at them, but it was 6-8" of wind slab over increasingly weak layers beneath. Not entirely sugar but not stable enough to think something would not break. Seems like recent high winds may have forced quite a bit of moisture out of the snowpack since GG was skied considerably well two weeks ago with signs of stability.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitchell333
FWIW - the danger was moderate above treeline yesterday.
A few thought I keep meaning on putting in this thread...
At this time of year, cornices can be really bad. We had a huge local release a few days ago on Axtel's 4th bowl due to a cornice failure that took the underlying snow to the ground. The accident near A basin/Grays is another example.
From the tours I've been on lately above treeline (Massive, Teocalli (13k), Kit Carson), we aren't even close to a springtime snowpack. Lots of sugar, lots of layers, lots of everything you would see in mid-winter, but not necessarily a nice, solid, frozen melt/freeze situation. Be patient, choose your aspects wisely.
Witnessed chimney chute slide today. Eyeballing it, I'd say 20"-36" crown. Broke near the top of the chute and was about the width of the chute. Skier's right, on other steep shots, slabs were breaking off easily as well. Dangerous out there right now.
Skied four N/NE facing chutes at Berthoud today (two of which were above 12,000 feet and two were after 230 PM). Our last run was around 4 PM and had blower snow. Snow was very stable and no signs of instability present. Even in areas where sluff was expected, it did not produce. Considerable amount of avalanche activity was present on east-facing terrain on two separate headwalls with crowns forming about 10-20 feet below the cornices. Slide on the looker's right side of 10 Little Indians. Also saw slides on west-facing chutes late in the day near the Choke (looker's left I believe) on the east side of the pass. In total, I would estimate about a dozen slides today ... maybe more. There was one huge one off the headwall north of Postage Stamp which I will include pictures of tomorrow.
Again, who are the fuckers that hit No Name? :cussing: :cussing:
Picture of the large aforementioned slide on an east-facing slope at around 12,000 feet. The black-looking object at the very top-center is the top of Panorama Lift at WP. The large chunks at the bottom of the slide were about 15 x 10 feet in size.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5865/slide01uo8.jpg
interesting location for the crown (maybe not really)
did you happen to inspect the crown or cornice any more closely?
id think not, but Im asking because
I noticed lots of water percolating\dripping down from the ends of cornices this past weekend
wondering if this dripping from the high temp increase was a factor here as the crown looks to be right below the edge of the cornice
thoughts from others?
We thought about inspecting the area after skiing down but time was running against us ... as well as a group of three skiers following our trail.
FWIW - there were a handful of slides that looked exactly alike the one pictured above with respect to where the fracture line began. All were E/SE facing.
More views:
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5299/slide02xv4.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8440/slide03pf4.jpg