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She may be. You’re not alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
I’ve used the support line. And now I often call them just to thank them for answering and I remind them of how important their job is.
In fact I just called now and no one answered.
I’m not a specialist, just empathetic. I’ll be here all night.
I’m so glad you called them. I hope it is helpful. I know a friend who it has helped immensely and they have called several times. Just know there are a lot of folks here who can relate and are pulling for you and want you to be alive. Sending all kinds of positive energy your way.
You won’t lose your job. FMLA and ADA laws will protect you. You definitely qualify. Your company would have to be dumb as hell to fire someone seeking treatment for a serious medical condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
Good on you for being honest. Thank you for talking to 988.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
I like to watch birds when I am low. Hummingbirds, Robbins, ducks, ducks and more ducks. I love birds and they are proven to help. If there is a park where you can feed ducks or a refuge nearby? I know the Salt Lakes have lots of waterfowl. I also like to make plans. Short term and mid term are great. Maybe there’s something close to home you haven’t seen or done? Or maybe you can get to the beach? You intermountain folk need more beach in your lives. It’s totally ok that you don’t want to ski or get on a lift right now.
Again, I am proud of you for talking with your wife and 988.
How is this possibly helpful?
From 988
“I can imagine having thoughts like that on your mind everyday can be difficult. Would you feel comfortable sharing with me when, how and where would you plan to attempt suicide?”
Let’s see.
Um sooner the better.
My wife locked the gun up so some other means.still trying to figure that part out.
Anywhere my family does not find me.
Since I answered there’s been no reply.
It gets it just a little bit out of your system.
It might sound strange— but that’s the same reason I don’t talk about my goals. If I talk about them I find I’m less likely to follow through. If I don’t talk about them, in order to get any satisfaction, I have to accomplish something.
I felt talking to her was worthless, until it helped. Hang in there.
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The details of your answer also help her understand where you’re at on the ideation spectrum.
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Be patient. Maybe she’s even in a room chatting with others to find the most appropriate reply.
My helpline in Tokyo is just volunteers answering their phone at home. Seemed super unprofessional but after talking I realized how professional she was.
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That was an utter fucking waste of time. She sent me a message while I was typing that said this:
Hey, I've seen that you've been idle for 7 minutes. I'm still here to support you. Unfortunately, I will have to disconnect once it's been 12 minutes.
I was typing up an answer. Fuck it, I’m done with this horseshit.
Hey Buzz, I'm just another internet dumbass hoping you stick around here for many more years. I know things seem fucked right now but tomorrow will be a better day that today. Even when I've moved and picked a new general practitioner it takes me 2 or 3 to find one that I trust and believe. Keep shopping for a pro that can do a bit better than those folks on 988.
Regardless, good job reaching out. That’s a positive move.
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Now I’m just mad and still want to die.
How the fuck is that helping??
Nothing ever goes well. Nothing. I’m over this shitty world.
I have a bunch of crazy stories, but I’d be keen to hear some of yours.
But I know it’s getting late there and you’d probably rather sleep than chat to a stranger half a world away.
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Sucks that the doctor you saw was useless. That has to be beyond frustrating when you take the right steps and have the courage to pour out what’s going on and then not get the help you were looking for.
Gonna bring up Ketamine again. I mean through a clinic - not off the street.
Like anything it’s not a guaranteed solution in everyone. But for those it works for it does wonders - and is long lasting. It can literally be life saving and life changing.
https://healthcare.utah.edu/hmhi/tre...amine-infusion
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fc6b700481.jpg
^^ that's probably the best idea in this thread. Go for it Buzz, it sure as hell won't hurt anything and it might help.
Reading up on it. Might as well. Last ditch effort. I just don’t have any more fight in me.
Probably a good buzz too
I’m so broken I haven’t even wanted a beer lately. Haven’t smoked a thing today. I literally don’t have any desire, for anything. Even food.
When you wake up this morning, try to clean your room. Clean anything. Just for a few minutes. Take out the garbage.
^that is “anhedonia”
https://www.priorygroup.com/blog/meaning-of-anhedonia
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3eaf186047.jpg
See below - I’m pulling quotes out of one study on ketamine and anhedonia. I’ll link the full study and another one as well. The studies have been encouraging but this is still a relatively new type of treatment. And like anything it doesn’t work for everyone - but anhedonia is a debilitating symptom that isn’t well treated by your classic “antidepressants” - which could account for a lot of the unsatisfactory responses people have on those pills (ie these pills are better at addressing other symptoms of depression but not anhedonia)
“Anhedonia, the reduction of the ability to experience pleasure, is one of the core symptoms of depression, and approved treatments do not address it sufficiently. The presence of anhedonia strongly correlates with suicidality [thoughts of suicide], and this effect is independent of the severity of depressive symptoms.
-Symptoms of anhedonia turned out to be a robust predictor of a poor outcome of antidepressant treatment. This was true irrespective of which antidepressant was used and did not depend on the level of baseline depression.
-A primary finding in this study is a statistically significant decrease in the level of anhedonia during ketamine treatment.”
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals...21.704330/full
Also
A translational perspective on the anti-anhedonic effect of ketamine and its neural underpinnings
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01183-1
There’s lot more then just those 2 papers if you google “anhedonia ketamine”.
I don’t want to have tunnel vision here - nor do I want to lead you and your family down a path where I’ve convinced you that ketamine is the guaranteed answer to all your problems. But if you talk to someone in this area of research I bet, if they hear your story, they’ll say you’re the type of person they want to see if they can help.
(I don’t own stock or profit in any way off ketamine treatments to be clear)
I’ve never thought of myself as ill until I read into Anhedonia. I thought I was just depressed all the time. But this makes a lot of sense to me. It used to be a lot more mild. Obviously it’s not that anymore.
Of all the things that I’ve done in my life that I’ve previously enjoyed, I don’t find pleasure in any of them anymore. Soccer, volleyball, skiing, snowboarding, riding my bike (I loved this more than anything), woodworking, reading books, paddle boarding, swimming, hiking, taking the dogs for walks….none of the things I did for myself are joyous anymore. At all.
The only hobby I’m looking forward to is gardening. But I don’t really eat what I grow. My wife loves the veggies I grow so I do it for her. I do nothing for me anymore that brings me joy. Or should I say I don’t find joy in any of the things I should be doing for myself, that I’ve always enjoyed.
I’m a lot more scared now. I’m coming to terms with the fact now that I’m not remotely in charge of what’s going on and that I'm actually extremely close to losing my life.
But that right there is me with a little bit of care for myself and that hasn’t happened for many months.
God dammit the fucking tears are back again
Yeah. This is what it feels like. "The not understanding why there's no joy in anything anymore."
It's real. And it happens to a lot of us.
But know that we come out the other side eventually. We learn to identify it and then we learn to find happiness again. We often find happiness in other things.
Life changes. We go from skiers to cooks. I had no idea I loved cooking so much until I nearly killed myself.
Just know we're here. And keep talking to us, because we want to talk, too. We're still on the same journey that you're entering. When we invite you to chat, it does't mean we're ahead of you... it just means we're on the same path and we're also seeking a moment by the fire.
How rad would it be for all of us to be by a fire right now?
Ever look into the mirror and see your naked soul?
I just did by reading this article. I really want to find a good doctor now. And khole myself while electrocuting my brain sounds about right. Jesus I’m fucked up.
https://www.osmosis.org/answers/anhedonia
Yeah I hear you.
We aren’t in 100% control of what goes on inside our bodies. And we’re super complicated (not telling you anything you don’t already know here).
And we all have dysfunction in our bodies. For some is the cartilage in their knees, for some it’s the lining of their digestive system, for some it’s the circuitry and chemicals in the brain. All of those and many more are only partly under our “control”.
It’s clear you have great deal of insight into your mental health and what you are struggling with - that’s a huge benefit that not everyone in your situation has. I’m not saying this to be all like “others have it worse” - what I mean is your insight is an big advantage you have and it will serve you well once you (and those you elicit to help) get yourself on a treatment path that is working.
That’s the hard part though - the fucking frustrating trial and error part of finding what will get you on that path.
But that’s the goal - a path that ends with you feeling like yourself and enjoying the things “buzzworthy” enjoys like playing soccer and riding your bike and walking the dogs.
It’s 100% possible to get there. You don’t know me - so I’d just say listen to and try to trust the mags that you do know that have had similar struggles. It may be extremely hard to imagine right now - but getting back to yourself is a very realistic and very obtainable goal. How you feel tonight is not how you’re going to feel for the rest of your life.
Edit: just read your post above - I want to be clear that ketamine and ECT and treatments such as these are not some weird, super fringe, only in the worst of the worst cases are these options pulled out…every major center in North America is gonna have treatments like this available - because people often struggle like you are and because these treatments often work.
The insight. I understand it’s a plus in theory but it seems much more of a curse. To know you’re super fucked up but you can’t do anything about it….It can feel more like insanity than anything.
Decades of experience. I’d trade it in a heartbeat.
I don’t know you but I’ve read you for years. And you just may have saved my life today.
Thank you will never be enough to any of you. Your posts, pms, thoughts, calls, texts, in person visits….this place is unreal. You guys are unreal.
I hope I can get through tomorrow now. I’m shutting my eyes. I’m exhausted.
Fuckkkk
Brain chemistry is complicated
I’ve tried Sri twice over the years. Can’t deal with them. So i am what I am.
The pills often push people over the edge. Getting off them is worse than taking them.
There’s a hudge difference between not wanting to live and wanting to kill yourself. I’ve not yet been in the latter category.
Even if you want to end it you have to realize how selfish it is. It rips a hole in anyone you know. Particularly kids. Which you have.
As far as I know there’s no magic bullet. Other than the ones in a gun. But that’s not the answer.
PS. Have you tried shoving things up your ass?
I think the 90's fucked us. I've been high ever since.
I graduated HS in '94. In those four years I ate acid a few dozen times, saw other kids eat acid at school... and teachers not blink an eye. My friend's brother snorted enough coke to hang himself in his closet. My other friend's brother lost his head in a motorcycle accident while high.
We used to smoke weed a few times a week, after school, on the ski bus, often on our way to school. We were 16... and developing our brains while high.
We were always high. And every weekend we were drunk. And then skiing became real after high school and we lived in ski towns and skied big shit... while high.
I climbed Roundtop in a flannel shirt and leather gloves from the hardware store after eating a bunch of acid. This was normal when I was 19-22. I used to ski on shrooms because it was Saturday. Weed was not only daily, but breakfast.
Why is Gen X so depressed? Because we were high for the entire time our brains were finishing development. From ages 15-25. Or, 35.
True story. We smoked weed that needed to be cut from stems and seeds, and we had sheets of acid floating around our schools, literally in class.
We. Were. Always. High.
This fucked with our brain development... and now we're depressed.
I miss having joy. And I wish I could turn my brain off. I’d really like to sleep. But yeah, I’ve forgotten what joy is.
3:53 in the morning.
It’s still dark outside. You could shove something up your ass and no one would know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
But remember. You need to tie a leash to ass shoving items so you can pull them out without an embarrassing visit to the ED for retrieval
Here’s the thing that normal people do not seem to understand. When it goes that horribly dark, you don’t care about anything besides stopping the pain. It’s a laser focus. There is nothing else in your world besides escaping or ending that pain. It’s a horrible disease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
I’ve already tried to end it. I failed. That was a very difficult decision to make. But it’s now somehow just a little easier to make that decision again. Because now I’m also a failure that doesn’t want to stick around longer. It’s a horrible disease.
Again. I'm here all night. Give us a ring, bro. What do you have to lose?
I have a lot to gain. And I'll pass that off on you.
I’m hardly normal.
But man. You are in deep. In serious need of outside help. As in all our fucking words of care or go ski or take a walk in the sun mean absolutely nothing.
You did say getting treatment could endanger your career. And yet. Killing yourself will end your career. And crush your kids.
Talk therapy is awesome. Having someone non judgmental listen is awesome. Being shrinked by your spouse must be brutal. My bride says it’s all so easy. Work harder. Exercise more. Get out there and smell the roses
. Fackkkk. I wish you the best. You are in deep. Wayyy deep. It’s hard to climb out of a hole. But don’t be afraid of reaching out to the system for a hand up.
There’s a thread for dead maggots. Some died pushing the edge. Which many of us have done for the thrill of living. But there’s also a few that checked out. Don’t be the latter. Please.
Just a word of advice... eventually this window is going to close. Those around you that are offering their shoulders are going to go on with their lives. They're going to get up in the morning and cook breakfast for their kids. They're going to tend to other demands that respond to their efforts.
If you keep ignoring the efforts of those around you, those efforts will fade away.
Pay attention when things are heightened. Accept help when it's there, when you're asking for it.
It's gonna be hard to double-back.
When I was going through chemo a wise person told me “this too shall pass”. He was right.
Hope is meaningful, even if it’s just a feint glimmer.
Try to find some. It’s a start.
Agree with Bennymac, try ketamine. I think they might even don it intranasal now. No IV needed.
University of Utah does it.
Also, smoking weed never helped anyone. I’d avoid it. Optimize your brain chemistry.
I'm only on page 9 of this thread, spent last week teaching my 5 year old grandson how to ski, my heart was full. Lonely here now, but oh man this thread is so therapeutic. And thank you to everyone for being vulnerable and not just posting powder shots, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
I'm looking forward to it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by skiJ
No matter how old your kids are, they will always want to have you around, you are one of the "helpers" in their lives.
Letting them to tell you about their happiness, their struggles and just everyday small talk is such a beautiful time to share your love. You get to hear, help or hug, whatever they need
There is no such thing as normal. You are right about the pain. For me it’s the kind of pain of being submerged in cold and rough water. Gasping for air but wanting to drown. I want it to be all over, to just slip into the unknown, but my body fights it nonetheless. People are trying to throw lifelines but they often come up short, I see they try so I kinda try, but again I just want it to end, and then some how and someway I get back to land. Things are kinda good and then I just start dreading the being thrown back into the cold water. It’s when I am on land though that I try to do the work for the next time I am tossed into the water. I have lived my whole life with my alcoholic drug addicted father using suicide threats as emotional abuse to keep and maintain my attention. Part of my response has been to often think fuck you, you threaten it, I will just do it. I have felt that cold cold water that is so painful and then so weirdly numbing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
Your body and soul, are fighting against what a part of your mind is thinking; they all know there is hope to carry on.
Breathe. Try to just breathe. The pain is shutting out all the ways your body wants to feel the world; your body wants to feel ground. Try narrating the incoming sensory inputs. I am touching glass. I am standing at my window. I am washing my hair and I feel the slick shampoo and the warm water. Eventually, you will hear the morning songbirds and the geese passing by and your sleeping family, and the perfectly bitter morning coffee. This is what Al-anon taught me to do; pull myself by the short hairs into the right here and the right now. If you were closer I would come over and pull you by the short hairs.
Fuck Joy and Fuck Sleep. Those are two ornery cats that won’t let you pet them when you want to so badly, but then when you aren’t paying them any attention they will come wondering in, purring, and rubbing on your leg.
It is a horrible disease, compounded, by a multitude of other ailments and trauma. You are right it is absolutely horrible. Suicide is a choice, it is not the choice we would make for you, but we don’t get to make that choice. However, we will choose to keep this conversation going with you. We will choose to mourn your life if you go. Please don’t go. I don’t cry much. I am crying for you now as I write.
I am going to be out with my family today and will check in on this thread when I get home. I hope you are still with us. Again, 911 you are in a straightforward emergency situation or maybe a trip to Urgent Care?
Um, that pretty much describes my HS experience. Almost a decade earlier. And I'm sure we have enough folks here that someone will pipe up about the previous decade, and so on. There was the Friday afternoon senior year that a few people left school early and went into hiding because they suddenly realized the sheet they were selling was fake. There were just shy of 100 pissed off people in an 800 person school that all wanted their money back right fucking now. You are of the age that you were the little kid brother to friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin