https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN9CjAfo5n0Quote:
Originally Posted by MontuckyFried
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN9CjAfo5n0Quote:
Originally Posted by MontuckyFried
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ls-2023-10-10/Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I doubt any Palestinians are crossing the border for any reason for the foreseeable future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
- Israel’s government had a policy of containment against Hamas, using a mix of economic incentives and military force. The economic incentives included the essential services mentioned above along with work permits. Israeli authorities issued thousands of work permits that allowed Gazans to find jobs in Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
- The source that some of the attackers travel and work in Israel comes kibbutzim survivor accounts.
- The border with Egypt is currently closed. The US is working to open it for refugees.
- Hamas And Palestinian Islamic Jihad Gazan residents: Do Not Evacuate From Areas About To Be Targeted In Airstrike
Attachment 472434
Audio here: https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/sta...29004230017253
ive heard this many many times. almost verbatim weirdly enough...its propoganda. not going to argue with it here, you can take it up with the UN and HRW. other authors like finklestein and chomsky have taken up amore point-by-point counterargument that i wouldnt do justice to here.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
for the comment above saying the settler-colonial aspect shouldnt be part of the discussion, i dont see why it shouldnt as it provides quite an important starting point for the discussion (written eloquently from a theoretical and practical perspective in wretched of the earth).
i dont expect to change anyones mind about the conflict here tbh but felt it important to respond so others dont feel alienated by having views that are unfortunately taboo in the western mainstream media.
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It's a matter of historical record so I'm not sure where one draws the line between history and verbatim? And I'm not sure the colonization view is taboo anymore given it's become a core curriculum in Western universities for decades. It might be a third rail for western mainstream media but it's doctrinaire for a generation in the West.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Let's go back and undo every border change since WW1 and then, reparations for everybody!
My point is that both sides believe they have a historical right to that land, and there is no argument that will change their minds, no matter how eloquently made.Quote:
Originally Posted by ktoor
So it seems to me that if the goal is a negotiated peace, discussions about who has a historical right to that land is just going to be a barrier to that goal.
Fuck Chomsky. That stupid piece of shit thought Cambodian genocide stories were propaganda, like so many other deluded pieces of 70s trash. Still smug and pretending he wasn’t an idiot like Malcolm Caldwell
Who gives a fuck what her opinion is. Googled: an "expert" on feminism in video games.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Why the fuck are you even reading her opinion? Let alone sharing it here.
JFC.
It’s a meme that’s being shared, not just her. And I shared it here because the topic of settler colonialism came up.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
You're not helping yourself here.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Article on the current situation in Gaza:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023...black-box.html
Official reports relay the grim tally of the past few days. The Gaza Health Ministry said on Wednesday that more than 1,000 people have been killed, 260 of them children, with another 4,500 wounded. As Israel amasses forces on the border for a potential ground offensive, the bombing raids are not letting up with hundreds of air strikes every day. Entire neighborhoods, such as the Rimal district in Gaza City, have been obliterated. Some 180,000 people are holed up in United Nations schools and shelters, with the rest left unprotected. The trauma center at Gaza’s largest hospital, Dar Al-Shifa, is reportedly so overwhelmed that doctors have stopped treating bones crushed by debris and are focusing only on life-threatening injuries.
The hospital’s director, Dr. Muhammad al-Salmiya, said that the number of injured patients waiting for treatment is four times Dar Al-Shifa’s capacity. “You know, it is very difficult to run an electrical generator for 18 hours a day,” Salmiya told NPR. “And, of course, the generators we have do not support the amount of equipment we need to use.” The hospital has already limited its electricity usage to essential tasks, but the generators will soon go offline too: Gaza’s health minister said that the fuel needed to operate them will run out on Thursday. A spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross warned that such a scenario “will turn hospitals into graveyards.”
The siege, and Israel’s refusal to allow for humanitarian corridors to supply relief, is making life virtually impossible for everyone in the territory. Former United Nations officials expect that food will run out within days. “We’ve got supplies for 12 days for food and water,” Jennifer Austin, deputy director of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees, told Al Jazeera. “Roads are blocked, we don’t have telephone lines, we have had networks hit by air strikes. It is really difficult for us to know what’s happening.” One of the U.N. shelters suffered a direct hit from an Israeli bomb on Sunday, and five more schools being used as shelters were damaged on Monday.
Ok. How about, it’s a meme that outlines a point of view that a not insignificant number of people hold, which was related to a particular point of discussion that was brought up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
If it makes you feel better, you can read the argument in long form rather than meme:
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinio...s-what-it-does
To any American questioning whose land that is, you could go to the library and spend the weekend in the Mideast section, or you could look at your own feet, and ask what tribe you took your from. Do you even know their names?
I had to look mine up, Osage. Haven’t seen one in 15 yrs.
Whose land is yours?
You assume it was Osage because they were the tribe the white people found there, but who did they take it from? It’s turtles all the way down!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Id ask them, it it seems we either killed them all, or sent them packing. Didn’t even leave a casino behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
Some of the scenes from the pro-Palestine rallies around the world have been disturbing. Pretty damn Hitler-ish how these pieces of shit are yelling "GAS THE JEWS! F- THE JEWS!"
https://twitter.com/AustralianJA/sta...01583295680694
NOT a good look if they want to gain anybody's sympathies. Seriously though. The authorities need to add these assholes to their terror watch lists as well.
I've been known to give some back to the Seneca whenever I'm up their way.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
I split my donations between the Mohegan and Mashantucket Pequot Tribes, but it’s been a while since I’ve been charitable. I should look into that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
It’s not an argument only being made on the fringe:
Attachment 472437
https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1712203...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg
Most were exterminated. There is a movie coming out in nine days that might interest youQuote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Yup, lotsa good weed stores there. There's also a casino and the biggest garbage dump in the state. The upwind areas are nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
If anyone comes across any podcast or interviews worth listening to on this topic I’d be grateful if you shared them.
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For those foolish enough to believe if Israel only ceded land, THEN that would pacify the extremists once and for all, please look back in the history books. I have stacks of old Readers Digests going back to the 20s and it is absolutely surreal to read about an America wrestling with what to do about Germany, Japan, Communism, etc. leading up to WWII. Reading about Nazi tourists in America and their perspectives is absolutely wild. Anyway, here's a bit about whether or not to believe Adolf from 1938...
Attachment 472460
Attachment 472459
You could give them ALL the land of Israel, and that absolutely will not be enough due to the edicts of the most extreme form of their religion calling for the institution of a worldwide caliphate. They demand conversion by the sword. Many don't seem to believe this, BUT Israel in no small part symbolizes holding the line for the rest of the world. If Israel were to fall (as is the goal of Hamas), they'd go after the rest of the Western world next. Starting with Europe. Judging by the rallies around the world where those dickbags are waiving ISIS flags and chanting "gas the Jews," it looks like they're more than happy to kick that off as soon as they get the green light.
I’m just trying to read and listen to as much as I can and was wondering if anyone had come across anything they thought was valuable to help them understand the situation. I hear your point, and that’s why I’m asking , most things I’m reading are strongly biased and lack objectivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
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my leftie friend recommended a “principled communist” look at the situation and i kind of want to drive to philly to ask her wtf happened to her brain.
so yeah, lots of propaganda. but, the daily was actually pretty strong today.
Ian Bremmer posts regularly. I wouldn’t call him a podcast but he puts out very solid info on international affairsQuote:
Originally Posted by Evil E
Beau of the Fifth column has a few, though he titles his stuff poorly and it's really hard to figure which is about what. He also takes pride in identifying his bias when he knows he has one. Primarily covers US politics. These three are Israel related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhd61gX2KjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXdIp1TFJu0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKvzOF-toIA
Vlad Vexler is a political philosopher. Found him from Ukraine channels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU9oGlSwkwU
Both are thoughtful and cover the recent Hamas-Israel conflict from an intellectual perspective. Don't expect news or history. There's a few more videos from each. Find them if you want.
Not going to post it to avoid crossing into polyass (and if anyone thinks this is crossing that line, I’ll delete it) but the ex president voiced his thoughts on the attacks in a speech tonight.
Yglesias response to one of his statements:
Attachment 472472
Nakba akbar??
Isaac Chotiner interviews someone about Hamas here talking about their aims, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Evil E
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...goes-from-here
Let me start by saying that I hope Israel wipes Hamas off the face of the earth! They are a plague that needs conflict and misery to remain relevant. That said, I also think it is far too simplistic to make this conflict one solely based on religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil E
I read an interesting book in college called "Strangers in the House: Coming of Age in Occupied Palestine" that provided a very unique perspective on the issue. The book is a bit dated and centers on the second intifada, but I think it is still informative and relevant to today's conflict.
Let me reiterate, fuck Hamas, but this is still at its core a human story of suffering and despair no matter the lens you view it through.
pretty good take here i thought:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023...is-doomed.html
I’m in total agreement regarding Hamas. Thanks for the recommendationQuote:
Originally Posted by cspringsposer
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Haven't read further back then this last page so not sure how much ( or at all ) this has been discussed,
but since Israel helped create Hamas as an entity to oppose Yassir Arafat and the PLO, this just seems like the latest example of the:
The Enemy Of My Enemy Is My Friend strategy,
failing miserably and backfiring spectacularly.
Other than that, it's just an argument over which war criminals are more justified to keep killing innocent children.
By the time this thread reaches 1000 pages, will anything other than the number of dead have changed?
The interview focuses a lot on the conventional wisdom in academic circles in which the interviewee travels and less on the goals of Hamas:eliminating Jews from Israel. If the goal was eliminating apartheid, that is eliminating Israel as a Jewish state by ending ethnic domination and apartheid; in favor of a one-state solution where Arabs, Jews, and Palestinians live side by side in peace and freedom then Tareq Baconi's arguments would be much more compelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
He says, "We need to recognize that anti-colonial struggles are violent. But not all of that violence is in pursuit of a political project. As you say, violence occurs for all different sorts of reasons. We need to be able to hold that truth while also recognizing the ethical purpose of ending apartheid."
So he's saying violence is ethical if it serves to end apartheid even if violence is occurring for others reasons too. Which is 'just' I suppose as far as it goes. But the goal of Hamas is not to reform the state of Israel. Their goal is to eliminate it.
This interview below with an actual Hamas leader, along with others, makes that clear. Hamas doesn't have any non-violent political vision apart from Jews should go back to their homelands in Europe (in academic circles and on social media Jews are considered white European colonizers with no historic ties to Israel):
https://www.economist.com/middle-eas...kill-civilians
I think that this is pretty much the consensus conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by powpig