Return of the R/R - Heritage Lab 132 - Dedicated Thread

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Originally Posted by Blaster

Hey Marshall, What would it take to make a tourable properly fat ski for the medium/short ladies?

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Hey man! Thanks for the thoughts and I look forward to "getting there" and being able to offer a collection more tailored to ladies. I would say, after having skied with women on OG 172cm Volant Spatula, I don't really think reverse translate to lengths shorter than 185cm. You just run out of real estate for tapers, having the right taper angles, etc etc and lose much of the benefit, but gain more downside (namely tip dive).

However, I DO think something with a proper carbon build in a ~122 shape, with a bit wider of a tip (ie more float up front), and a progressive rocker profile around 170cm would be amazing.

To agree with meter-man, as far as I know, the smallest Praxis Protest (163 and 119mm waist) and Wndr 120 (170 and 120mm wide) are about the only other skis that approach tourable weights, but are 1700-1800g, which is certainly not light. A 150mm wide tip combined with Voile's more setback mount (compared to these other two) is quite frankly going to float her at least as well in deep snow, honestly, and at ~1300g, be way more fun on the up.

With respect to small runs, sure, I can do it, it's just cost prohibitive! For skis to be less than $1k/pr, we'd need to get 8-10 orders together per mold/construction. To be certain, I'm all about it and would love to. But I am realistically 1-2 years away, unless someone wrangles together enough ladies to get it going faster than that.

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Originally Posted by meter-man

I know this a HL thread, but Praxis makes Protests in 163. I tour in a stock pair (187 with Alpinists) and love them so much I haven't been able to pull the trigger on a C132 to replace them.

My wife skis on a 177 Protest inbounds (5'8, 140#) and those work well for her, but I expect they need a bit more speed to come alive than a fully rockered C132.

A shorter C132 would be sweet, but if not on the horizon, check out Protests. You can get the UL layup in the next custom sale, but the stock one is on sale now for not much.

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With apologies for the threadjack, I'll second that. My wife has a pair of 163 Protests, and has toured a fair bit on them in Japan.

Renegade is available in a 177 these days, ~1950g.

Thanks for the insights. I hope Heritage Labs keeps growing and filling voids in the ski world

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Hey man! Thanks for the thoughts and I look forward to "getting there" and being able to offer a collection more tailored to ladies. I would say, after having skied with women on OG 172cm Volant Spatula, I don't really think reverse translate to lengths shorter than 185cm. You just run out of real estate for tapers, having the right taper angles, etc etc and lose much of the benefit, but gain more downside (namely tip dive).

However, I DO think something with a proper carbon build in a ~122 shape, with a bit wider of a tip (ie more float up front), and a progressive rocker profile around 170cm would be amazing.

To agree with meter-man, as far as I know, the smallest Praxis Protest (163 and 119mm waist) and Wndr 120 (170 and 120mm wide) are about the only other skis that approach tourable weights, but are 1700-1800g, which is certainly not light. A 150mm wide tip combined with Voile's more setback mount (compared to these other two) is quite frankly going to float her at least as well in deep snow, honestly, and at ~1300g, be way more fun on the up.

With respect to small runs, sure, I can do it, it's just cost prohibitive! For skis to be less than $1k/pr, we'd need to get 8-10 orders together per mold/construction. To be certain, I'm all about it and would love to. But I am realistically 1-2 years away, unless someone wrangles together enough ladies to get it going faster than that.

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Mounted @85 from tail. How do you ski a painting?
Attachment 474583

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Originally Posted by banzai

Mounted @85 from tail. How do you ski a painting?
Attachment 474583

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Oh, Fuck Yes!
Thinking about putting Pit Vipers on my FR110s.

Or some sweet pink ZR7s (is that crazy?).

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Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

sweet pink ZR7s (is that crazy?).

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Do it!

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Originally Posted by banzai

Mounted @85 from tail. How do you ski a painting?
Attachment 474583

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Yum yum.

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Originally Posted by gwat

Do it!

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Functionally the same a P15/18?
Look like it, other than the old school cradled brake assembly.
Can one simply unscrew the dildo and attach it to a new brake assembly?
They came off a old pair of 212cm straights that I got for free and are in pretty cherry shape (skis and binders).

Will I die?

Functionally the same, yes. Really all that has changed since '87 is the shape of the toe, toe mounting pattern and the baseplate/attachment arms of the heel. Bonus of the old bindings is all metal goodness in 3-10DIN and 5-13DIN, which are arguably more practical DIN ranges for the masses....

Z7 heels (or any older turntable with rubber bumpers where the threaded arm meets the base plate) won’t swap onto a modern baseplate, the angle of the arms coming off the heelpiece is slightly different.
You’d need to disassemble the bases and swap brake arms.

You won’t die but definitely disassemble the bindings and get some fresh grease onto the bushings (35+ year old grease is always pretty crusty..). Will be worth the effort IMHO...

I would throw those Z7 toepieces on some modern 4-hole pedestals... Somebody was offloading a bunch awhile back in GS.

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Originally Posted by waveshello

I would throw those Z7 toepieces on some modern 4-hole pedestals... Somebody was offloading a bunch awhile back in GS.

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That’s my dream but unfortunately the Z and P pedestals are slightly different heights between the bushing and the AFD so you can’t swap them.

Bummer--I was planning to do that with a pair. I'm going to measure tonight--if it's just a mm or two, I'll probably do it anyway.

I swapped a pre-2010 P with a Z. I forget which was which but one binding had about two mm of play at the toe lug and the other toe lug had to be jammed in and pushed up the toepiece.

More experimenting is necessary (Gripwalk or PX pedestals?) but I expect the results to be the same unless there is some version of P toes that use a different casting.

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Originally Posted by gwat

I swapped a pre-2010 P with a Z. I forget which was which but one binding had about two mm of play at the toe lug and the other toe lug had to be jammed in and pushed up the toepiece.

More experimenting is necessary (Gripwalk or PX pedestals?) but I expect the results to be the same unless there is some version of P toes that use a different casting.

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you would know better than me, but IIRC the Z (or more specifically ZR race) toe base plate/AFD had a higher AFD location off the top of the ski than more modern toes, which have gotten lower. so there could be a magic combination of newer AFD with older Z toe that fits multi-norm boots. but it’s fuzzy. Been 10 years since I last played with them myself, lol. I do somewhat recall the base fitting the pillar differently where the Z and original P/FKs toes had one standard, and the more modern reissues had a different not cross compatible layout.

I do hope that some nicely fresh neon pink, 35 year old bidings grace HL skis however!! Next thing you know, someone will be chasing replacement rubber bumpers from Geze toes :)

I pulled out the calipers and made some measurements. Seems like the magic number is ~17.7mm from the top of the AFD to the underside of the toe wings, but the Z toe on a 4-hole pedestal is 2.2mm shy of that.


FKS 4-hole pedestal + alpine AFD w/ Z toe:
45.5mm base of AFD plate to top of bushing
13.4mm base of AFD plate to top of AFD
28.9mm base of AFD plate to bottom of Z toe wing
15.5mm between AFD and underside of toe wing


Z 3-hole pedestal and alpine AFD w/ Z toe:
46.2mm base of AFD plate to top of bushing
12.0mm base of AFD plate to top of AFD
29.6mm base of AFD plate to bottom of Z toe wing
17.6mm between AFD and underside of toe wing


FKS pedestal, Pivot alpine AFD, FKS toe:
14mm base of AFD plate to top of AFD
31.7mm base of AFD plate to bottom of FKS toe wing
17.7mm between AFD and underside of toe wing


Pivot pedestal, GW AFD, Pivot toe:
17.5mm base of AFD plate to top of AFD
35.3mm base of AFD plate to bottom of FKS toe wing
17.8mm between AFD and underside of toe wing


Sorry for the thread hijack, back to HL stoke.

I love this place.

This thread is always the right place for this level of gear nerdery. Interesting measurements! Bummer they didn’t line up :/

How about a NIB Rossignol 180 Pro?
I already have heel baseplate with wide brakes to switch out.

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Originally Posted by gwat

Do it!

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??

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Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

How about a NIB Rossignol 180 Pro?
I already have heel baseplate with wide brakes to switch out.



??

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Are those the ones with geze toes?

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White with black writing?

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Originally Posted by arild

Are those the ones with geze toes?

No, same mounting pattern as FKS/Pivot.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

White with black writing?

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Black and yellow with a bit of white writing.
Box states: E.FKS 180 PRO
Also that I should ski them like it's 1999.
DATE 22/03/1999

Looks like FKS180 / Pivot 18 with different toes.
Brake assembly looks the same and I have a new wide brake assembly ready to go.
They even have the factory included whippet of lithium grease.

Like these?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b403c7af68.jpg

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For the 2.3 people that are interested... I made a little shim out of some ~2mm abs sheet I had laying around. It sits between the pedestal and the AFD plate to increase the clearance between the AFD and the underside of the toe wings. Now I'm within 1mm of the original clearance. The pedestal is still recessed a couple mm inside the AFD plate. I have them mounted on a pair of groomer zoomer race skis now.

Also, I threaded the heels on to a newer style turn table assembly and they seemed to fit just fine.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a0d79cd834.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...026df42aea.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e2dcae4201.jpg

Yessss! Nice work.

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Originally Posted by waveshello

For the 2.3 people that are interested... I made a little shim out of some ~2mm abs sheet I had laying around. It sits between the pedestal and the AFD plate to increase the clearance between the AFD and the underside of the toe wings. Now I'm within 1mm of the original clearance. The pedestal is still recessed a couple mm inside the AFD plate. I have them mounted on a pair of groomer zoomer race skis now.

Also, I threaded the heels on to a newer style turn table assembly and they seemed to fit just fine.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a0d79cd834.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...026df42aea.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e2dcae4201.jpg

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Ooh, ooh, me, me!!
Those are same exact Z7s that I have and would like to rehabilitate.
Yours look even more cherry.

I'd send you beer+shipping $ if you 2 extra lifters.
I have new brake assemblies ready and waiting.

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Originally Posted by waveshello

Also, I threaded the heels on to a newer style turn table assembly and they seemed to fit just fine.

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FWIW, there is a difference in the width/angle of the heel arms, and as they are threaded on further some weird stress is put on the baseplate.
If you are at the outer reaches of the adjustment range it could be OK, but in my case I didn't like the looks of the stress being put on everything.

Old vs New:
Attachment 476827

I literally just mounted old ZRC (7-15) dildos to a modernish turntable. No worse than the other heel. I half expected the arms to go tight pivoting up and down, but same slack as before. For science, see.

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Skied my 132 on sunday. Just as good as I remember from last year!

My first day out i got through the approach hike, realized how deep it was and began thinking how much I regretted not hauling them in there- first thing when I get off work is to get them in service for the year! Lots of “floatection” there for early season.


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My first day out i got through the approach hike, realized how deep it was and began thinking how much I regretted not hauling them in there- first thing when I get off work is to get them in service for the year! Lots of “floatection” there for early season.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

What skins y'all using on the 190s?
Looking at POMOCA free pro v.2, contemplating whether the L size will fit. Its rated as 175 - 190 cm, but considering the shape of the tips they might be ok?
Attachment 477603

I went with the xl and they fit great. Really enjoying the free pro 2 on big skis as well.

Free Pro 2.0 for sure! XL as well for me.


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Cheers lads. If anyone can be bothered to snap a photo or two of the XL fit, I will be forever indebted :D

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Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

Black and yellow with a bit of white writing.
Box states: E.FKS 180 PRO
Also that I should ski them like it's 1999.
DATE 22/03/1999

Looks like FKS180 / Pivot 18 with different toes.
Brake assembly looks the same and I have a new wide brake assembly ready to go.
They even have the factory included whippet of lithium grease.

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That's the Geze toe that Rossignol once used when they first got in the binding game.

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Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence

That's the Geze toe that Rossignol once used when they first got in the binding game.

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I thought Geze toes were three screws?
This one has the same four screw mounting pattern as FKS/Pivot.

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Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

I thought Geze toes were three screws?
This one has the same four screw mounting pattern as FKS/Pivot.

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I don't exactly remember the timing of everything, but IIRC the OG Geze was three hole, with a forward center screw and two rearward holes that line up with modern pivots. Similarly, the OG Look 3 hole had two forward holes that line up with Modern pivots and the center rearward hole. Then when Geze, Rossi FKS, Pivots merged, they kept the holes than now line up with modern pivots, and the Geze brand was phased out when Rossi moved the FKS to the modern toe aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by banzai

What skins y'all using on the 190s?
Looking at POMOCA free pro v.2, contemplating whether the L size will fit. Its rated as 175 - 190 cm, but considering the shape of the tips they might be ok?
Attachment 477603

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I'm just dealing this. You will NOT be OK with the L.

Normally, an L would work on a 190, but given the significant rocker on these the running length is far longer. You'll NEED the XL.

I was literally about to email Marshal about this as it might be worth posting a note on the website for the C132s.

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Originally Posted by banzai

Cheers lads. If anyone can be bothered to snap a photo or two of the XL fit, I will be forever indebted :D

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I can do that for you when my XLs arrive. That said, you simply NEED the XL. It's not a question of choose a L stretched to the max or an XL with excess room. The L is short by several centimeters — even the excess tail (beyond what the plastic clip holds onto) does not get near the end of the ski.

Found this out last night.