If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by Summit

I don't mean this offensively, but are you on the spectrum?

You seem only capable of looking at your own perspective and extending that to how you think others should perceive the world. You seem incapable of putting yourself in the shoes of others, and adjusting accordingly, even when led by the nose to that trough!

Your tone deafness makes your words wasted (and you invest considerable time in writing dubious quantities) even if there is a point to glean.

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Nope. I can put myself in your shoes, but honestly dude, disconnecting from the news for a while puts this all in perspective. With what it does to you sympathetic nervous system, its a drug, the news is a mind altering drug. You can read whats going on in the world without exposing yourself to that. I have huge amounts of empathy for human suffering, and for those I encounter face to face who share their own vulnerability and emotions. Many in this thread start from the perspective that those who disagree with them have no possible reason to do so other than insanity and that is a mind numbing and mind closing way to go through the world.

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Originally Posted by Summit

I think you are assuming a particular meaning to "pro 2a" when there is a range. Similarly narrow in definition, there are "pro 2a" people who consider me "anti" because I support things like universal background checks.

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Culturally to me it seems like saying one is 'pro 2a' is the same as saying 'from my cold dead hands'. It could just be my read and image search though.

https://www.rothco.com/upload/produc...ge/10192-A.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...CLexE&usqp=CAU

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...igJ_w&usqp=CAU

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I believe I'm correct in saying $32B is the total opioid settlement number, so far.

Is Leroy suggesting a similar solution with the firearm industry?

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No, but for the pharma companies part in the mental illness epidemic.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Nope. I can put myself in your shoes, but honestly dude, disconnecting from the news for a while puts this all in perspective. With what it does to you sympathetic nervous system, its a drug, the news is a mind altering drug. You can read whats going on in the world without exposing yourself to that. I have huge amounts of empathy for human suffering, and for those I encounter face to face who share their own vulnerability and emotions. Many in this thread start from the perspective that those who disagree with them have no possible reason to do so other than insanity and that is a mind numbing and mind closing way to go through the world.

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Doubtful. You are clearly so far up your own ass you haven't seen daylight for years.

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

Culturally to me it seems like saying one is 'pro 2a' is the same as saying 'from my cold dead hands'. It could just be my read and image search though.

https://www.rothco.com/upload/produc...ge/10192-A.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...CLexE&usqp=CAU

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...igJ_w&usqp=CAU

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I think its like saying that you're "not anti vax" before any criticism of anythign even remotely connected to that cus you have to virtue signal certain things or else there is zero chance anyone will evnl listen to you.

Of course the pro 2a thing started with politicians with anti gun voting records that had to assert they're pro 2a because somewhere one of their relatives has a shotgun and they shot it once.

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Originally Posted by schuss

Doubtful. You are clearly so far up your own ass you haven't seen daylight for years.

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Feed me your hate brother I'll eat it up and spit it out as love to all those I meet.

If you had soemthing to say you'd say it. Insulting me is just an angry childish little tantrum.

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Originally Posted by Summit

I think you are assuming a particular meaning to "pro 2a" when there is a range. Similarly narrow in definition, there are "pro 2a" people who consider me "anti" because I support things like universal background checks.

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So how are you pro 2a? I notice you didn't answer.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

*word vomit*

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You accuse others of being a brick wall but insist on slamming your head into it repeatedly. For what? Do you enjoy reading your own posts that much?

If you can't meet people where they are, wait for them to move.

bla bla gun control doesn't work because Chicago. Chicago is the perfect example of why Gun Control MUST be NATIONAL, not local. If anyone tries to say Chicago gun violence isn't fueled by the ease of getting guns right next to Chicago you're full of shit. Any meaningful gun control MUST have border crossing inspections around said gun control area. It's gotta be at the national customs and border level to truly be "gun CONTROL".

Nobody here thinks gun control would solve all of the problems associated with gun violence and nobody here at least is talking about taking guns away from law abiding citizens.

This has all been discussed at length in previous threads and the facts are it's not necessary to remove guns to lessen gun violence. Even though there are exceptions on average per capita places with stricter gun regulations experience less gun violence and less gun related suicides than places with fewer gun restrictions.

In reality people importuning "mental health" or "criminals" have little interest in closing loopholes, let alone stricter measures, that would deny guns to the mentally unwell or people who commit violence against women.

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Originally Posted by Peruvian

Has the 1994 assault weapon ban expiration in 2004 been mentioned yet? We have the same argument over and over which is just so sad.

Attachment 417364

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So why so few mass shootings before the ban took place? Why did they not drop precipitously when it was enacted?

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

I wish people woudl stop thinking of the left and right as these monoliths. Oh some people support this while some others support this.

There are plenty of people who are in favor of abortions being legal despite being pro 2a and actually pro life in their personal lives. Tons.

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Not familiar with 2a. But here in MN tons of folks hunt and I’m fine with that and the protection of their rights to own guns.
There could also be stronger rules around buying guns and no need for assault weapons.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

No my stance is those terrible thigns happen to unarmed populations. There is more nuance to history than you believe. You guys believe gun control will solve our problems because you're experiencing emotional reactions to a fucked up situation. There is no indication that your efforts will be successful in removing guns from a country with almost 500 million of them, or in making it safer, other than you emotionally want to believe that would be true. There is also no consideration of anything other than believing that it would be unequivocally good. No idea of long term vs short term benefits, just an idyllic vision that this would be great and we'd all get to be safe because its 100% about the guns and nothing else because pharma companies are a sacred cow and everything that is fucked up with how we as a society raise people and raise our children is less gratifying to rant about.

I'm fine supporting reasonable common sense gun measures, but those don't include anything that creates a registry or de facto registry of gun owners. A nice old gent who fought in the Dutch Resistance in WWII gave a talk at my school in college, when asked what we should do to prevent it happening in the USA, he said don't have gun registries, he then described watching the Nazis go door to door demanding peoples guns and if you couldn't produce the item they had listed the shot the male head of household and asked again.

I think they are just going to keep taking rights and freedoms from us progressively and see how much we will put up with. Roe v wade being a significant erosion of the rights of the individual to have autonomy instead of safety before they even exist. If we don't stop squabbling over which rights are precious to us and which we think are stupid they're going to keep taking them from us. Regardless of our feelings about guns and wanting a safer world, we need to apply them to the world we actually live in, where both the left and right wing of our political apparatus have low approval ratins, low levels of trust, are basically openly owned by companies with ties to hostile authoritarian foriegn powers, and our country is becoming increasingly destabilized and divided. The only thing the L and R wing politicians seem to agree on is making this coutnry become increasingly authoritarian. With this being reality I don't see now as being a time to ban all guns unless you're a grown man clutching a teddy bear.

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this is why kids die

having a gun keeps tyranny at bay and that is worth the loss of life we suffer year after year from guns

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Originally Posted by Summit

You accuse others of being a brick wall but insist on slamming your head into it repeatedly. For what? Do you enjoy reading your own posts that much?

If you can't meet people where they are, wait for them to move.

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It wasn't word vomit to me, in fact they express somethign I feel deeply, that those without the ability to empathize with those who disagree with them should tend their own garden before they take part in the political debate. but I see you will dismiss it instead of interacting with it. Your choice. Why even bother replying?

I see the reasons people want gun control. There is some validity to them, but much magical thinking in how they imagine solutions and discuss them. They like to say there is no reason anyone could disagree with them, and do not view that is a fault in and of themsevles.

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Originally Posted by hikesalot

Not familiar with 2a. But here in MN tons of folks hunt and I’m fine with that and the protection of their rights to own guns.
There could also be stronger rules around buying guns and no need for assault weapons.

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Whats an assault weapon?


I think the definition is 'whatever scary traits they want to ban next'

Look at this thread. Look at the responses.
This is all lip service.

Nothing is going to change in this country. Everyone is out for themselves here. Caring about others has become too problematic. Americans will blame anything they can do as to not feel any responsibility.

I’m disgusted with humans right now.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

So how are you pro 2a? I notice you didn't answer.

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The way that tends to piss off both ends. In the same way that other rights are mostly inalienable (certain criminals can't vote or own guns), I'm not about to outlaw fireworks (not a right) because some dumbass held on to the M80 too long, but we can have fireworks bans during extreme fire danger. You have to be more delicate with actual rights.

So if we wish to mitigate the downside through "reasonable restriction" (1A no yelling fire in the theater) and avoid abuse (voter registration and ID are completely reasonable) you can also have things like universal background checks and some other qualifications/disqualifications. However, if you are going to reasonably restrict a right for the public good, the burden must fall on the public both in the name of individual protection and so as not to make a it a privelage of wealth. Just as poll taxes are illegal, so too should be background check fees etc. The government general fund bears the cost of voter reg and an election and so too should it be for background checks or any sort of carry permit or class requirement is a public interest and thus a public burden when it pertains to conditionally enabling a right. Similarly, there must be extraordinary safeguards and no individual costs when doing something as invasive or with abuse potential as red-flag laws, again, in the name of public safety at the curtailing of individual rights.

I'm not keen on feel-good and cosmetic rules that accomplish nothing, like mag size limits and "assault weapon" bans generally crafted by people who get their gun knowledge from CNN and anti-gun activists... while clearly crime associated limitations like destructive devices, machine guns, barrel length restrictions, and handgun age restrictions are arguably legitimate to curtail in various extents. I like urban/rural targeted rules rather than blanket rules... like open carry in a city is fucking asstardery while banning it the countryside is also fucking asstardery.

That ought to be enough to make everyone unhappy with me.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Feed me your hate brother I'll eat it up and spit it out as love to all those I meet.

If you had soemthing to say you'd say it. Insulting me is just an angry childish little tantrum.

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I already did. You have nothing to offer but your word vomit that you clearly impress yourself with - thus my comment above. You can't even see how obnoxious you are because you're so convinced you're in a superior moral position that no, everyone else is the asshole. I have no hate for you, that would be pointless.
All you have is your whataboutism, no data, no actual solutions, just your own smugness and endless time to spend on a keyboard.

What resources are out there explaining things clearly on what could/should be done with gun control in America, and what non profits for gun control are out there that have clear goals and mission statements?

Stop fighting fucking Leroy. Everyone here reading TGR knows he is completely full of shit, has nothing to offer and wallows in his own shit.

Just ignore.

What kind of sick son of a bitch goes into a 4th grade classroom, chases little kids around, while he blows their guts and brains out?

Yes, guns need to go, but think about the level of insanity that requires, and think about the pre conditioning it takes a mind to commit such acts.

This shit was not happening 25 yrs ago.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

the mental illness epidemic.

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You certainly make it difficult to forget that.

Columbine was 1999.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

What kind of sick son of a bitch goes into a 4th grade classroom, chases little kids around, while he blows their guts and brains out?

Yes, guns need to go, but think about the level of insanity that requires, and think about the pre conditioning it takes a mind to commit such acts.

This shit was not happening 25 yrs ago.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Nah, just wasn't reported as much - https://www.k12academics.com/school-...-united-states

As far as options - there are a lot, but some of it has been impeded by the outlawing of firearm study by congress thanks to gun lobbyists, so they can't do federal studies on it as a health thing.

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Originally Posted by muted reborn

What resources are out there explaining things clearly on what could/should be done with gun control in America, and what non profits for gun control are out there that have clear goals and mission statements?

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https://giffords.org/

skij douche your box! (haven't had to say that in a while)

I have to stop reading this thread. It's as out hand as a potential thread here in Germany when it comes to introducing a general speed limit, only much much worse and with far more terrible cosequences.

And I definitely have to Block leroy. Jesus Christ.....

I don't have anyone on Ignore but I sure ignore some people. My Eyes Glaze Over as they say.

I see fewer guns and more restrictions as the best answer. The appropriate changes likely require amending or reinterpreting the 2nd amendment. The founders were reasonable people, and the current level of gun violence is unreasonable. They would do something different and so should we.

Less panic may also be appropriate. Do school shooters kill more kids than school buses? There's a lot of folks who (wrongly) believe guns are more necessary to society than buses, so it'll be difficult to get rid of guns quickly. Every kid dying is surely a tragedy. While many of us think those dying to shooters are unnecessary tragedy, the scale of tragedy is similar to kids killed by school buses.

Guns and cars cause a similar amount of death. If we have to keep guns for now, perhaps we should regulate them similarly. Registration, insurance, training, regulations on where and how they can be used - similar policies could work for both.

Meanwhile, for the 2A fans (fan as in fantasy), keep working the idea that their (peashooter) assault weapon doesn't do crap against an Abrams. If the 2A doesn't include the full modern arsenal including the Abrams and nuclear missiles, it's not useful against modern tyrannical governments. The 2A tyranny prevention myth is just that. Methinks it's primarily a marketing meme.

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Originally Posted by ötzi

I don't have anyone on Ignore but I sure ignore some people. My Eyes Glaze Over as they say.

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Nothing really worth reading here anyway from anyone (including myself), just some updated stats as time moves forward.

Pull up any past thread after a mass shooting, copy and paste posts here, save some time.




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I agree totally w the above.

In countries that banned assault rifles and pump shotguns after mass shooting gun deaths went down drastically in the following decade. It’s not rocket dentistry. If your argument for guns goes anywhere past “ but I like guns!” You need a real dose of reality.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by Buzzworthy

Look at this thread. Look at the responses.
This is all lip service.

Nothing is going to change in this country. Everyone is out for themselves here. Caring about others has become too problematic. Americans will blame anything they can do as to not feel any responsibility.

I’m disgusted with humans right now.

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I'm just disgusted with americans right now. NZ gets it

That same night, New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern condemned the shooting, as both a politician and a mother, in an appearance on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert. After two consecutive mosque shootings in 2019, New Zealand collected thousands of weapons through a nationwide buyback, and lawmakers voted to ban almost all semi-automatic weapons.

When asked by Colbert how the country was able to take that step, Ardern described New Zealanders as "very pragmatic people."

“When we saw something like that happen, everyone said never again, and so it was incumbent on us as politicians to respond to that," she said. "Now, we have legitimate needs for guns in our country, for things like pest control and to protect our biodiversity — but you don’t need a military-style semi-automatic to do that.”

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

reading comprehension.

You and leroy should be kicked in your cunts

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https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0650b15...9-f9f40325accb

I no longer care about arguing with people about universal background checks, abortions, climate change, etc. It doesn't work. Simply volunteer to help get voters out in mass in a few Senate swing states and these assholes (a controlling minority) are completely marginalized. We're so close it's only a matter of a time, but the sooner the better. It's the only realistic solution. Not saying the Democrats are perfect by any means, but at least they aren't the GOP.

^^^ Word.

Congressional race here in MT for a new seat created after the last Census. Choice looks like Ryan Zinke VS a D.

There are some interesting candidates. Monica Tranel looks to be the best of the lot from the D side. https://monicatranel.com/issues/

The thought of Ryan Zinke back in the house brings anger to the surface. Really? Ryan FUCKING Zinke? https://www.google.com/search?client...+FUCKING+Zinke

I'm absolutely 100% PRO 2nd Amendment... the whole thing, not just the last sentence..

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Second Amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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I'm 100% in favor of well regulated STATE MILITA and the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (as long as it's for that purpose and being well regulated) .

SCOTUS got it 100% wrong with Heller extending that right to individuals unaffiliated with any documented, well regulated State militia.

see yours, LSL - Thank you.

I still believe school Safety is part of the equation.

I support ideas about regulation of firearms, and the belief that citizens should be allowed firearms that are intended to kill people just leaves me cold. including firearm "collectors" .

buses and guns is a False comparison, unless one is claiming children are being killed with buses intentionally And I do not believe you are.


I am sad for what has happened to the usofa -
I believe there were some good things that were done in the aftermath of 9-11 that thwarted further attacks,
I really have to go back to the exploration of Space to see an achievement that I believe merits National pride
( I see another - but the critics would howl. )

A nation divided cannot stand.

a decade ago, I read Sandburg's 'Lincoln', trying to find a sense of the Man.
what I found was largely a chronology of events...
I don't know if the current social climate would allow a leader. Maybe we are left to our individuality
( I appreciate that. )

I would support more gun regulation. and safer schools ( facility operation, Not armed guards. )


good luck. tj

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Originally Posted by LongShortLong

I see fewer guns and more restrictions as the best answer. The appropriate changes likely require amending or reinterpreting the 2nd amendment. The founders were reasonable people, and the current level of gun violence is unreasonable. They would do something different and so should we.

Less panic may also be appropriate. Do school shooters kill more kids than school buses? There's a lot of folks who (wrongly) believe guns are more necessary to society than buses, so it'll be difficult to get rid of guns quickly. Every kid dying is surely a tragedy. While many of us think those dying to shooters are unnecessary tragedy, the scale of tragedy is similar to kids killed by school buses.

Guns and cars cause a similar amount of death. If we have to keep guns for now, perhaps we should regulate them similarly. Registration, insurance, training, regulations on where and how they can be used - similar policies could work for both.

Meanwhile, for the 2A fans (fan as in fantasy), keep working the idea that their (peashooter) assault weapon doesn't do crap against an Abrams. If the 2A doesn't include the full modern arsenal including the Abrams and nuclear missiles, it's not useful against modern tyrannical governments. The 2A tyranny prevention myth is just that. Methinks it's primarily a marketing meme.

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School bus passenger deaths in school bus-related crashes, United States, 2010-2020

2010 10
2011 4
2012 8
2013 6
2014 7
2015 5
2016 9
2017 4
2018 9
2019 4
2020 1

Source National Safety Council

So that's no, not similar at all.

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

I'm absolutely 100% PRO 2nd Amendment... the whole thing, not just the last sentence..



I'm 100% in favor of well regulated STATE MILITA and the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (as long as it's for that purpose and being well regulated) .

SCOTUS got it 100% wrong with Heller extending that right to individuals unaffiliated with any documented, well regulated State militia.

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My thought is if one thinks gun rights is about the Second amendment, one has the right to join the National Guard...

( if one thinks it gives one the right to amass a personal armory see the comments up-thread about the plagues of Fear and plague of Hate... )


tj

Keeping the slaves in check is what the 2nd amendment is all about. Fuck you all you 2a types. I have some SAKO copper 06 ammo coming in the mail today. Tranel was a aid to Burns, in his knee walking drunk days. Somehow she is the reasonable choice. The USA is exceptionally self centered and diluted.